He has been freed

I'd bet a fiver that full time pyro is perfectly viable in top invite atm even if it's just a consequence of how aids the flames are

As long as there is a scout alive you'll get shredded before even getting to a fighting distance, not to mention stickies which are not that easy to avoid either. And closing the distance with jetpack is not viable also because of the long switch time. The only thing that changed is pyro dps and slightly more range, but the main issue is still here - pyro can't close the distance.

I'd bet it's not viable.

It's not about closing the distance that is interesting as pyro, you just have to pressure them, and you can do it long range with detonator, and i also invite you to download my demos if you want to have a quick idea of what it would be like to run pyro in 6's, because ofc i haven't arleady learnt all the mechanics yet, i'm a 6's main

how can he get banned for being good? pyros cant be good

pyro is aids to play against and it would be fairly aids to play as in its current state for most players

it's something that requires effort and a bit of coordination to counter which isnt good for pugs, and a good pyro/sniper could easily take over the pug on some maps, hence it's banned

yes the current 6s meta is contrived (unlocks are banned to make other classes not become generalists) but for good reasons. having a fulltime heavy/sniper would be shitty to play as/against, while the current generalists are for the most part fun (mainly because of movement imo)

i think wanting to develope the meta is a good thing but you can't do this in pugs because of the lack of coordination and incentive to try to win, most players would rather get done with a game playing against pyro fast than try to counter him together
this has nothing to do with being stuck up 6s players rather than how fun and rewarding playing against pyro isn't compared to other classes
you can play it in leagues all you want, no rule to forbid it, also there you will force anyone wanting to win your division to counter your play therefore "developing the meta"

We're talking about a competitive game, not minecraft bro
I know that's aid to play against, but it's working well and what matters to me is to win, not having fun -> Basic competitive game. And as a cameraman, do you prefer to watch a an active game running pyro, or teams that just don't want to lose and runs unlocks just to make the game longer as it's been for nearly 33% ETF2L's existence. Also current generalists are "fun" ?! Beam-scouts ? Stickys traps ? random spam ? Sync ? It is "fun" only because you just know the game like this, even tho there's plenty of possibilities in this game. finally, why coordination wouldn't be good in pugs ?

An uber asks for coop, a push asks for coop, every calls that you're making is for coop, If you think that coop isn't good for pugs, then play a lobby with no communication. Are you guys just frozen in time for 10 years now ?

Fun -> tf2center (no comms)
Competitive games that improve your gameplay more -> Pugchamp (comms)

Well, it is written in the rules of pugchamp that you have to do your best to win, i'm just following the rules.
if people can't try their best in pugs, they should just get ban because of this rule. I like to have fun as well, if we play a mix, i'll be certainly glad just to play and having fun while trying some shitty plays. But as soon as it's competitive game, as it is written on pugchamp where you have to do you best to win, what's the point telling me that because people are unable to coordinate against me, i should not play that way. That's how things work bruh, if you want to have to have greater time and having fun, just create a website pugfun.tf and leave the games to people that want to improve on their weaknesses.

you can say what you want about the meta, but if people really wanted to win no matter the stakes then you'd see a lot more gay strats a lot more often.

but we don't do this to each other because there's no money and we're here to enjoy our hobby

if you wanna be a dick that's your problem, because pugchamp has designed its ruleset to try and make pugs as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible, and given the plethora of asshats who only seem to enjoy ruining other people's experiences, i'd say those rules are necessary, especially the offclass rules.

sure you can argue that if it's working or the enemy is failing to counter then it's their fault and not your problem...
or you could step back and realize that nobody wanted to join the pug with the express purpose of fulfilling your selfish delusion that you're revolutionizing tf2's meta for the better

they're there to have fun, and you're simply in the way, congratufuckinglations

the majority of people play pugs for fun if you're #1 goal is winning a pug at all costs it just makes the game not fun for everyone else. I'm not saying that pugs should just be retard feed tests but there is a happy medium where you are trying to win but not at the expense of the other 11 players in the server

also you are just contradicting yourself by "advancing the meta" playing pyro, the basic 6s rule set encourages pushing as much as tf2 will allow. A banner has way more potential like create a push than having a scout or soldier switching to one of the classes with the least mobility.

That is just not true, considering how many people I've seen get upset with no offclassing involved. It has nothing to do with someone offclassing to pyro for the entire game, its depending on whether the pyro gets in the way of the pugchamp log heros or not. The people who complain about some dude playing one different class are the same people who consistently snipe for more than 50% of the game every other pug. Its the same shit every time. If its unorthodox and it works, it is aids to play against.

pugchamp is a medium between trying to win and having fun, if you sweat and bug it out for 30 minutes that's not really good for most pugs and most admins would agree with that i think

as a cameraman i prefer to watch games where you can follow the action, everything happens for a reason with some weird stuff happening every so often to spice it up. if you have a perma pyro who can bust his way through any flank because the other team don't know how to counter him, sure, that's their fault and it's a narrative that can be told

but most players would agree that because of scouts, pyro doesn't work at a high level very well (and offclassing a whole div below your level and going your main when you're losing doesn't demonstrate otherwise to me) and so playing it at a lower level is essentially a waste of time (assuming you want to try reach prem at some point ofc) since you're gonna have to completely change your gameplay at some higher level. this happens in loads of other games - something that's OP at a lower level (bastion, P90 rushing, techies?) is laughed at and either nerfed or ignored by players

going back to pugchamp, you're trying to emulate higher level play (which lobbies don't do effectively imo) there in a quick hop-in setting. excessive offclassing, while it may work, it isn't fun nor a learning experience for the other 11 players in the pug and doesnt simulate higher level play and so it's banned

as for 6s in general (this is just my personal opinion on enforcing the current 6s meta as has happened in the past) but heavy/sniper should be limited with class limits/whitelists because they actively slow the game down. pyro not so much, but it's a question of how crazy and dumb it is at lower divs with most of the unlocks unbanned. engi is bad except for dumb surprise factor moments and boring to play as, spy is bad except for dumb surprise factor moments and is boring to play against so those are both fine to keep as specialists imo.

final line:

it works BECAUSE it's unorthodox

You mean like SE7EN strats? get out of here

You do realise that having a pyro will just mean no sacs from soldiers or anything. They will see the pyro then just play safe as fuck and run a sniper. Have fun covering all that ground to get to the sniper as pyro. Or they can just run 2 scouts into you and then ur just dead.

Then why does he go 13-1 playing pyro if peoples are so smart

You do realize that playing pyro means you have no sack

https://i.imgur.com/bMcLsyj.jpg

Its a pug...

And the main conversation is about pugs

olgha use the scorch shot not the detonator

urm people are going on about changing the meta and I was saying theres no point changing it?

if you think its less aids to have a full time offclass on the other team if you have players above open, youve clearly never played a mak mix

actually IIRC even before the update there's been some pyro running around, I remember ma3la being quite good at it. And pyro is arguably better now. It may not be better than a scout but I would definitely argue that it's at the point where running him is not "throwing"

Although what I'd really be interested in trying is not running pyro instead of scout, but replacing the pocket[*]. If you have a combo of demo/scout/pyro you can easily put 20% heals on that scout because the pyro can protect the rest of the combo from damage while not requiring as many heals as the soldier and also making it really hard to run flank plays or sacs. Although as T0m said a sniper could possibly be a hard counter to this.

[*] actually I've played the better half of a season in open as a pocket pyro but we had two roamers and a flank scout, it was a pretty silly team. With a pocket scout I could see it being so much better

Full time pyro wont be viable in high level meta, even tho it's very underused. Rules on pugchamp are bs, offclassing shouldnt be limited to time, it should be admins decision if you offclassed too much or not. Pretty much dont run pyro too much in pugs its aids, play whatever your team is comfortable with in an actual league.

its less about the rules and more about 90% of the players you've ever played with on pugchamp actually hate you
Also that shitty new pyro weapon is unbanned in pugchamp and its broken as fuck and easy to use so it doubles your effectiveness without any extra effort put in

Cool bro, but real players are talking right now

Nvm pugchamp rules actually don't say how much time you can offclass, it just says to not excessively offclass. So you got banned for breaking the site rules and you made a thread about it gg.

you could actually explain to me why im wrong but you decide to insult me instead? You're a high player who literally went to mid to stomp players with this perma pyro strat and you start preaching about a new meta while you ruin pugs for 9 other people.

Because you're right, peoples hate me, but why would i care ? I don't want to make friends people that i don't see in my life. Then yes, i'm a high player, i played soldier in high grands finals S27 and i lost, there was also yak who played mid in his mainclass during playoffs, he lost. Then Ringo squad, with for example Vouri who has 10x your level, he also lost. Those people tried their best to counter me, and it was not about dm skills, they really wanted to win. Now just wait next season to get an official against me and lose, or be brave and try to scrim my team now. The more you wait, the more my pyro will be viable, because i'm just starting to learn this class

Stop posting.