i remember when the global whitelist was first introduced and all those new players started comp, that was really cool
December Global Whitelist Changes
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
i remember when the global whitelist was first introduced and all those new players started comp, that was really cool
ban base jumper (doesnt belong in competitive)
ban GRU (arrows exist)
ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)
other than that id say these are good changes
also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again
ban base jumper (doesnt belong in competitive)
ban GRU (arrows exist)
ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)
other than that id say these are good changes
also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again
ban GRU (arrows exist)
ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)
other than that id say these are good changes
also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again
ArguedOysternopeb4nnythese items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:overpowered items should be banned that's literally the point of the whitelist
Crossbow is overpowered. Ubersaw is overpowered. You could even make the case that the Scattergun and Gunboats are overpowered.
no. no you can't. it's a stock weapon, a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
[quote=ArguedOyster][quote=nope][quote=b4nny]these items may simply be "overpowered" they have not proven to be game breaking and should not be banned:[/quote]
overpowered items should be banned that's literally the point of the whitelist[/quote]
Crossbow is overpowered. Ubersaw is overpowered. You could even make the case that [i][b]the Scattergun[/b][/i] and Gunboats are overpowered.[/quote]
no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
overpowered items should be banned that's literally the point of the whitelist[/quote]
Crossbow is overpowered. Ubersaw is overpowered. You could even make the case that [i][b]the Scattergun[/b][/i] and Gunboats are overpowered.[/quote]
no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
YeeHawi remember when the global whitelist was first introduced and all those new players started comp, that was really cool
LOL
[quote=YeeHaw]i remember when the global whitelist was first introduced and all those new players started comp, that was really cool[/quote]
LOL
LOL
ArguedOystermichael-no. no you can't. it's a stock weapon, a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?
[quote=ArguedOyster][quote=michael-]no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.[/quote]
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?
Hooray! Finally! Thank you based admins! I do think these are great changes, now we should move forward to the next logical step: ban soldier and heavy entirely so we scout mains can finally enjoy the game FeelsGoodMan
Hooray! Finally! Thank you based admins! I do think these are great changes, now we should move forward to the next logical step: ban soldier and heavy entirely so we scout mains can finally enjoy the game FeelsGoodMan
oyeaban GRU (arrows exist)
I don't think you have neither tested the new GRU nor have a clue how they work currently.
If you do, your statement "arrows exist" makes no sense.
[quote=oyea]
ban GRU (arrows exist)
[/quote]
I don't think you have neither tested the new GRU nor have a clue how they work currently.
If you do, your statement "arrows exist" makes no sense.
ban GRU (arrows exist)
[/quote]
I don't think you have neither tested the new GRU nor have a clue how they work currently.
If you do, your statement "arrows exist" makes no sense.
cyanics right, why are we bending over for valve when they’ve hardly even done the bare minimum for us such as fixing basic bugs, or supporting the competitive community in the slightest. they can barely even keep their game stable and functional, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to think they will change overnight because we’re allowing more weapons into play.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.
cyanics right, why are we bending over for valve when they’ve hardly even done the bare minimum for us such as fixing basic bugs, or supporting the competitive community in the slightest. they can barely even keep their game stable and functional, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to think they will change overnight because we’re allowing more weapons into play.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.
Also, everytime we have a thread about the global whitelist, it's always the same problem that different people have a different philosophy of what the whitelist is supposed to be.
Some people want to see it as "ban everything that isn't needed in competitive"
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"
The whitelist itself contradicts itself aswell by banning the Dragon's Fury but having other weapons unbanned.
You clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?
Also, everytime we have a thread about the global whitelist, it's always the same problem that different people have a different philosophy of what the whitelist is supposed to be.
Some people want to see it as "ban everything that isn't needed in competitive"
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"
The whitelist itself contradicts itself aswell by banning the Dragon's Fury but having other weapons unbanned.
You clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?
Some people want to see it as "ban everything that isn't needed in competitive"
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"
The whitelist itself contradicts itself aswell by banning the Dragon's Fury but having other weapons unbanned.
You clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?
-protobecause the dragons fury is fucking retarded
Besides the point that it's very subjective what weapons are retarded and which ones aren't.
It's about the philosophy the whitelist is going for.
If it's about banning retarded weapons, there should be for sure more weapons banned, or not?
Also the whole point of this new whitelist currently is testing weapons right?
So testing the weapon in actual cups where it's teams vs teams instead of pugs, instead of straight out banning it would , in my opinion, benefit the whitelist
[quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
Besides the point that it's very subjective what weapons are retarded and which ones aren't.
It's about the philosophy the whitelist is going for.
If it's about banning retarded weapons, there should be for sure more weapons banned, or not?
Also the whole point of this new whitelist currently is [u]testing[/u] weapons right?
So testing the weapon in actual cups where it's teams vs teams instead of pugs, instead of straight out banning it would , in my opinion, benefit the whitelist
Besides the point that it's very subjective what weapons are retarded and which ones aren't.
It's about the philosophy the whitelist is going for.
If it's about banning retarded weapons, there should be for sure more weapons banned, or not?
Also the whole point of this new whitelist currently is [u]testing[/u] weapons right?
So testing the weapon in actual cups where it's teams vs teams instead of pugs, instead of straight out banning it would , in my opinion, benefit the whitelist
michael-ArguedOystermichael-no. no you can't. it's a stock weapon, a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.
[quote=michael-][quote=ArguedOyster][quote=michael-]no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.[/quote]
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?[/quote]
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?[/quote]
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.
-protocyanics right, why are we bending over for valve when they’ve hardly even done the bare minimum for us such as fixing basic bugs, or supporting the competitive community in the slightest. they can barely even keep their game stable and functional, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to think they will change overnight because we’re allowing more weapons into play.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.
let's face it, though, the people working on this game are working on it solely because of their own passion. as far as i know, literally nobody could work on it due to valve's dumbass employee policies (i.e. choose where you want to work).
and of course it wouldn't change overnight, the game's over 10 years old. though, new players are always joining. jungle inferno almost cracked a peak of 100,000 players nearing the game's all time high. i'm just saying that being exclusive and off-putting by banning weapons that don't need banned is dumb.
though i agree, fuck the dragon's fury atm. i don't think broken weapons should be implemented, but there are some that deserve a shot post-patch. that's just my two cents in the matter.
[quote=-proto]cyanics right, why are we bending over for valve when they’ve hardly even done the bare minimum for us such as fixing basic bugs, or supporting the competitive community in the slightest. they can barely even keep their game stable and functional, I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to think they will change overnight because we’re allowing more weapons into play.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.[/quote]
let's face it, though, the people working on this game are working on it solely because of their own passion. as far as i know, literally nobody could work on it due to valve's dumbass employee policies (i.e. choose where you want to work).
and of course it wouldn't change overnight, the game's over 10 years old. though, new players are always joining. jungle inferno almost cracked a peak of 100,000 players nearing the game's all time high. i'm just saying that being exclusive and off-putting by banning weapons that don't need banned is dumb.
though i agree, fuck the dragon's fury atm. i don't think broken weapons should be implemented, but there are some that deserve a shot post-patch. that's just my two cents in the matter.
the upside to the whitelist is that it really doesn’t matter that much, the meta will always be mostly default weapons.[/quote]
let's face it, though, the people working on this game are working on it solely because of their own passion. as far as i know, literally nobody could work on it due to valve's dumbass employee policies (i.e. choose where you want to work).
and of course it wouldn't change overnight, the game's over 10 years old. though, new players are always joining. jungle inferno almost cracked a peak of 100,000 players nearing the game's all time high. i'm just saying that being exclusive and off-putting by banning weapons that don't need banned is dumb.
though i agree, fuck the dragon's fury atm. i don't think broken weapons should be implemented, but there are some that deserve a shot post-patch. that's just my two cents in the matter.
B4nny fuck off with your accesibility bullshit. Gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed cause valve senpai might notice you. The goal isn't to have as many items as possible unbanned, it is to ban the objectively shit weapons for better gameplay.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.
B4nny fuck off with your accesibility bullshit. Gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed cause valve senpai might notice you. The goal isn't to have as many items as possible unbanned, it is to ban the objectively shit weapons for better gameplay.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.
syphB4nny fuck off with your accesibility bullshit. Gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed cause valve senpai might notice you. The goal isn't to have as many items as possible unbanned, it is to ban the objectively shit weapons for better gameplay.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.
i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
Doom1michael-ArguedOystermichael-no. no you can't. it's a stock weapon, a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.
i get that to a degree; my main problem with that is the stock weapon is a stock weapon. the scattergun essentially represents what all other weapons are supposed to be a sidegrade to. i suppose i was wrong in saying this couldn't be argued though lol.
Raptor00XYou clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?
i think the main problem with it atm consists of two things: 1) the registration feels awful and inaccurate, and 2) that shit does tons of fucking damage. i feel like i'm getting obliterated constantly by it due to it's damage vs on fire enemies. not to mention, going back to the reg, it's not like landing direct pipes or something. it's way too easy and exploitable in it's current state.
don't get me wrong, though, i like pyro having a single shot option. it just needs tweaking.
[quote=syph]B4nny fuck off with your accesibility bullshit. Gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed cause valve senpai might notice you. The goal isn't to have as many items as possible unbanned, it is to ban the objectively shit weapons for better gameplay.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.[/quote]
i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
[quote=Doom1][quote=michael-][quote=ArguedOyster][quote=michael-]no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.[/quote]
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?[/quote]
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.[/quote]
i get that to a degree; my main problem with that is the stock weapon is a stock weapon. the scattergun essentially represents what all other weapons are supposed to be a sidegrade to. i suppose i was wrong in saying this couldn't be argued though lol.
[quote=Raptor00X]You clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?[/quote]
i think the main problem with it atm consists of two things: 1) the registration feels awful and inaccurate, and 2) that shit does tons of fucking damage. i feel like i'm getting obliterated constantly by it due to it's damage vs on fire enemies. not to mention, going back to the reg, it's not like landing direct pipes or something. it's way too easy and exploitable in it's current state.
don't get me wrong, though, i like pyro having a single shot option. it just needs tweaking.
I wish new players didn't have to be alienated from competitive tf2, but if pyro is broken, he should be banned. At least unban him mid-season if he gets fixed. But until then too bad valve is retarded.[/quote]
i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
[quote=Doom1][quote=michael-][quote=ArguedOyster][quote=michael-]no. no you can't. it's a [b]stock weapon[/b], a.k.a. the basis on what is and isn't overpowered.[/quote]
If rockets did 300 damage, they would be overpowered. If it's significantly better than every other weapon in that category, it's overpowered. If the weapon elevates the class above every other, you can call it overpowered.
If Scattergun can't be overpowered, then Scout can't be overpowered.[/quote]
but rockets don't do 300 damage? neither does the scattergun. the whole mechanic is risk/reward; if you aim your shots well, you do more damage (although not anywhere remotely close to 300). that's the point of a single shot mechanic. what is your point (especially with the 300 damage rockets "analogy")?[/quote]
He is saying that scattergun is not the basis on which other scout weapons are decided to be overpowered or not. He is sayig the category in which a weapon is in decides that, which means that when you decide whether or not a weapon is overpowered you have to take into consideration all other weapons in it's category, not just the stock weapon. Which means a case that scattergun is overpowered could be made and argued for by some (they would argue other primary slot weapons and classes fall behind scout). He exaggurated 300 damage rockets and called them overpowered to illustrate a point that the weapon being stock doesn't make it balanced.[/quote]
i get that to a degree; my main problem with that is the stock weapon is a stock weapon. the scattergun essentially represents what all other weapons are supposed to be a sidegrade to. i suppose i was wrong in saying this couldn't be argued though lol.
[quote=Raptor00X]You clearly stated that you don't think it's OP but it's different so it's supposed to be banned?[/quote]
i think the main problem with it atm consists of two things: 1) the registration feels awful and inaccurate, and 2) that shit does tons of fucking damage. i feel like i'm getting obliterated constantly by it due to it's damage vs on fire enemies. not to mention, going back to the reg, it's not like landing direct pipes or something. it's way too easy and exploitable in it's current state.
don't get me wrong, though, i like pyro having a single shot option. it just needs tweaking.
Raptor00XSome people want to see it as "ban everything that isn't needed in competitive"
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"
And generally speaking, people who say the latter tend to believe in the premise that having gimmicky unlocks will allow the game to grow even if it might be detrimental to the fun of the game.
Perhaps if we were to spend more energy into putting sixes in the spotlight instead of extrapolating theories on how to make the game more appealing for newcomers, which is going nowhere since it's not the issue tf2 is facing, we would actually be better off.
I and many others learned about comp randomly thanks to tftv and youtube content, and a huge proportion of potential players aren't aware it exists. TF2 needs exposure and money, balance is really secondary and could be solved way more easely.
[quote=Raptor00X]Some people want to see it as "ban everything that isn't needed in competitive"
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"[/quote]
And generally speaking, people who say the latter tend to believe in the premise that having gimmicky unlocks will allow the game to grow even if it might be detrimental to the fun of the game.
Perhaps if we were to spend more energy into putting sixes in the spotlight instead of extrapolating theories on how to make the game more appealing for newcomers, which is going nowhere since it's not the issue tf2 is facing, we would actually be better off.
I and many others learned about comp randomly thanks to tftv and youtube content, and a huge proportion of potential players aren't aware it exists. TF2 needs exposure and money, balance is really secondary and could be solved way more easely.
and others see it as "ban everything that is overpowered"[/quote]
And generally speaking, people who say the latter tend to believe in the premise that having gimmicky unlocks will allow the game to grow even if it might be detrimental to the fun of the game.
Perhaps if we were to spend more energy into putting sixes in the spotlight instead of extrapolating theories on how to make the game more appealing for newcomers, which is going nowhere since it's not the issue tf2 is facing, we would actually be better off.
I and many others learned about comp randomly thanks to tftv and youtube content, and a huge proportion of potential players aren't aware it exists. TF2 needs exposure and money, balance is really secondary and could be solved way more easely.
-protobecause the dragons fury is fucking retarded
I don't agree. It's the only primary for pyro that has a bit of counterplay at the moment (although this might get changed if valve ever fixes the stock flame glitches, but I'm no longer holding my breath at the moment). Damage is similar to stock flames, a bit higher range, actually dodgeable, can't spread your damage across several people with ease, can't do max damage by wiggling like an idiot
It's objectively the least powerful flamethrower apart from the phlog atm, and it's also the least retarded one, even if it is still easy to use
(and this is to say that I actually see some sense in banning pyro from 6s until flame bugs are fixed. but dragon's fury is not the worst thing pyro has, by far, I'd consider it one of the best)
[quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
I don't agree. It's the only primary for pyro that has a bit of counterplay at the moment (although this might get changed if valve ever fixes the stock flame glitches, but I'm no longer holding my breath at the moment). Damage is similar to stock flames, a bit higher range, actually dodgeable, can't spread your damage across several people with ease, can't do max damage by wiggling like an idiot
It's objectively the least powerful flamethrower apart from the phlog atm, and it's also the least retarded one, even if it is still easy to use
(and this is to say that I actually see some sense in banning pyro from 6s until flame bugs are fixed. but dragon's fury is not the worst thing pyro has, by far, I'd consider it one of the best)
I don't agree. It's the only primary for pyro that has a bit of counterplay at the moment (although this might get changed if valve ever fixes the stock flame glitches, but I'm no longer holding my breath at the moment). Damage is similar to stock flames, a bit higher range, actually dodgeable, can't spread your damage across several people with ease, can't do max damage by wiggling like an idiot
It's objectively the least powerful flamethrower apart from the phlog atm, and it's also the least retarded one, even if it is still easy to use
(and this is to say that I actually see some sense in banning pyro from 6s until flame bugs are fixed. but dragon's fury is not the worst thing pyro has, by far, I'd consider it one of the best)
michael-i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
I didn't say the post was objective. But the pyro class is objectively broken. and should be banned. Because it objectively makes the game shit.
There is nothing wrong with being more fluid with casual, as long as that doesn't interfere with competitive in a bad way.
[quote=michael-]
i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
[/quote]
I didn't say the post was objective. But the pyro class is objectively broken. and should be banned. Because it objectively makes the game shit.
There is nothing wrong with being more fluid with casual, as long as that doesn't interfere with competitive in a bad way.
i don't entirely agree with everything b4nny said, but the point isn't to get "noticed by valve," it's to try and start on the path towards competitive being a little bit more fluid with casual. i don't think we should unban broken weapons, and weapons that have been patched should be tested first (or just remain banned like the dragon's fury).
dunno how this purely "objective" post transitioned into banning a whole class; that sounds pretty subjective.
[/quote]
I didn't say the post was objective. But the pyro class is objectively broken. and should be banned. Because it objectively makes the game shit.
There is nothing wrong with being more fluid with casual, as long as that doesn't interfere with competitive in a bad way.
I don't agree at all with this philology that more weapons make the game more casual friendly. When I started up, it was a fucking ordeal to decide what weapon everyone would be using most of the time. There were so many weapons, even in s20 when I first started following this game. Now with the global whitelist, a new player needs to memorize and effectively use the 100+ whitelisted weapons, which is a lot more than juggling the 10 unlocks in a whitelist like this
IMO, all this does is clutter the game and shift the strategic focus from advantages/disadvantages, movement, and aim to rock, paper, scissors.
I don't agree at all with this philology that more weapons make the game more casual friendly. When I started up, it was a fucking ordeal to decide what weapon everyone would be using most of the time. There were so many weapons, even in s20 when I first started following this game. Now with the global whitelist, a new player needs to memorize and effectively use the 100+ whitelisted weapons, which is a lot more than juggling the 10 unlocks in a whitelist like [url=http://whitelist.tf/8186]this[/url]
IMO, all this does is clutter the game and shift the strategic focus from advantages/disadvantages, movement, and aim to rock, paper, scissors.
IMO, all this does is clutter the game and shift the strategic focus from advantages/disadvantages, movement, and aim to rock, paper, scissors.
Lets ruin the integrity of the only enjoyable part of tf2 for the sake of ___possibly____ attracting the retard playerbase that would rather spend their time on trade servers and handing out sandwiches on dustbowl
Lets ruin the integrity of the only enjoyable part of tf2 for the sake of ___possibly____ attracting the retard playerbase that would rather spend their time on trade servers and handing out sandwiches on dustbowl
i think everyone is overreacting; nobody is saying implement all broken weapons! there still needs to be a whitelist, but we should test nerfed items confirmed not to be game breaking (by b4nny standards at least) and see what can be implemented. everyone's acting like people wanna remove the whitelist entirely, just chill.
i think everyone is overreacting; [b]nobody is saying implement all broken weapons![/b] there still needs to be a whitelist, but we should [b]test nerfed items confirmed not to be game breaking[/b] (by b4nny standards at least) and see what can be implemented. everyone's acting like people wanna remove the whitelist entirely, just chill.
oyeaban GRU (arrows exist)
How do arrows equate into the gru at all, you arrive at mid with 100-130 hp on like every comp map if you run it full time after freeze time (add ~20-40 HP if you don')t and then have to wait ~17-20 seconds to get your full hp back all while having shittier overheals the whole time.
-protobecause the dragons fury is fucking retarded
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.
[quote=oyea]
ban GRU (arrows exist)
[/quote]
How do arrows equate into the gru at all, you arrive at mid with 100-130 hp on like every comp map if you run it full time after freeze time (add ~20-40 HP if you don')t and then have to wait ~17-20 seconds to get your full hp back all while having shittier overheals the whole time.
[quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.
ban GRU (arrows exist)
[/quote]
How do arrows equate into the gru at all, you arrive at mid with 100-130 hp on like every comp map if you run it full time after freeze time (add ~20-40 HP if you don')t and then have to wait ~17-20 seconds to get your full hp back all while having shittier overheals the whole time.
[quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.
oyeaban base jumper (doesnt belong in competitive)
shitty reason. besides, it got nerfed to the point where any decent player can predict the slow moving target; you can't spam it anymore, too.
ban GRU (arrows exist)
¿que?
ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)
i can agree with these. machina is too strong and the atomizer is now fair to fight against now that its nature is predictable.
also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again
why are people acting like it's that hard to counter this? either kill the engie or focus fire the sentry, use teamwork in team fortress 2. the rescue ranger can only heal so much, a demo and solly spamming that shit can still take it down in a heartbeat.
DarkNecrid-protobecause the dragons fury is fucking retarded
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.
i really want to agree with this, but again, it feels worse to be fucked by this than a flame thrower atm. i know there's a bit more aim involved, but it's just too good and too random feeling (both by the user and the enemy). also, just look at this state:
TF2Deals +300% damage to burning players
that's fucking insane.
[quote=oyea]ban base jumper (doesnt belong in competitive)[/quote]
shitty reason. besides, it got nerfed to the point where any decent player can predict the slow moving target; you can't spam it anymore, too.
[quote]ban GRU (arrows exist)[/quote]
¿que?
[quote]ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)[/quote]
i can agree with these. machina is too strong and the atomizer is now fair to fight against now that its nature is predictable.
[quote]also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again[/quote]
why are people acting like it's that hard to counter this? either kill the engie or focus fire the sentry, use teamwork in team fortress 2. the rescue ranger can only heal so much, a demo and solly spamming that shit can still take it down in a heartbeat.
[quote=DarkNecrid][quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.[/quote]
i really want to agree with this, but again, it feels worse to be fucked by this than a flame thrower atm. i know there's a bit more aim involved, but it's just too good and too random feeling (both by the user and the enemy). also, just look at this state:
[quote=TF2]Deals +300% damage to burning players[/quote]
that's fucking insane.
shitty reason. besides, it got nerfed to the point where any decent player can predict the slow moving target; you can't spam it anymore, too.
[quote]ban GRU (arrows exist)[/quote]
¿que?
[quote]ban machina (no downgrade)
unban atomizer (very situational)[/quote]
i can agree with these. machina is too strong and the atomizer is now fair to fight against now that its nature is predictable.
[quote]also why are people acting like the rescue ranger isnt broken still? you can still hide in spawn, repair your sentry from a far, get resup and do it all over again[/quote]
why are people acting like it's that hard to counter this? either kill the engie or focus fire the sentry, use teamwork in team fortress 2. the rescue ranger can only heal so much, a demo and solly spamming that shit can still take it down in a heartbeat.
[quote=DarkNecrid][quote=-proto]because the dragons fury is fucking retarded[/quote]
l don't know about you but I'd rather play against something that takes some semblance of aim than the current Flamethrowers where you can do full damage to multiple people while having a seizure with your mouse and have to deal with particles that get stuck to floors/walls and can burst you out of nowhere.[/quote]
i really want to agree with this, but again, it feels worse to be fucked by this than a flame thrower atm. i know there's a bit more aim involved, but it's just too good and too random feeling (both by the user and the enemy). also, just look at this state:
[quote=TF2]Deals +300% damage to burning players[/quote]
that's fucking insane.
ArguedOystermichael-i really want to agree with this, but again, it feels worse to be fucked by this than a flame thrower atm. i know there's a bit more aim involved, but it's just too good and too random feeling (both by the user and the enemy). also, just look at this state:earlier in the threadTF2 Deals +300% damage to burning playersthat's fucking insane.sageedit: also heres a graph comparing Dragon Fury DMG to stock flamethrower https://i.redd.it/jfpour3tehvz.jpg
you gotta take into consideration the consistency, the flame thrower is a steady climb and that's max dps (i.e. the pyro is right on top of the enemy and consistently burning them). the dragon's fury, with it's weird projectiles, two shots a soldier way easier than, say, a demo. it lowers the skill ceiling in that regard. it feels too much like a primary flare gun that deals way more damage. that's just my thought.
sometimes stats don't perfectly represent the situation; a side-by-side comparison of max dps doesn't take into account all the mechanics.
also, i'm not an expert on the df's projectiles either but they seem much harder to counter/more inconsistent than your typical rocket/pipe.
[quote=ArguedOyster][quote=michael-]i really want to agree with this, but again, it feels worse to be fucked by this than a flame thrower atm. i know there's a bit more aim involved, but it's just too good and too random feeling (both by the user and the enemy). also, just look at this state:
[quote=TF2] Deals +300% damage to burning players[/quote]
that's fucking insane.[/quote]
earlier in the thread
[quote=sage]edit: also heres a graph comparing Dragon Fury DMG to stock flamethrower https://i.redd.it/jfpour3tehvz.jpg[/quote][/quote]
you gotta take into consideration the consistency, the flame thrower is a steady climb and that's max dps (i.e. the pyro is right on top of the enemy and consistently burning them). the dragon's fury, with it's weird projectiles, two shots a soldier way easier than, say, a demo. it lowers the skill ceiling in that regard. it feels too much like a primary flare gun that deals way more damage. that's just my thought.
sometimes stats don't perfectly represent the situation; a side-by-side comparison of max dps doesn't take into account all the mechanics.
also, i'm not an expert on the df's projectiles either but they seem much harder to counter/more inconsistent than your typical rocket/pipe.
[quote=TF2] Deals +300% damage to burning players[/quote]
that's fucking insane.[/quote]
earlier in the thread
[quote=sage]edit: also heres a graph comparing Dragon Fury DMG to stock flamethrower https://i.redd.it/jfpour3tehvz.jpg[/quote][/quote]
you gotta take into consideration the consistency, the flame thrower is a steady climb and that's max dps (i.e. the pyro is right on top of the enemy and consistently burning them). the dragon's fury, with it's weird projectiles, two shots a soldier way easier than, say, a demo. it lowers the skill ceiling in that regard. it feels too much like a primary flare gun that deals way more damage. that's just my thought.
sometimes stats don't perfectly represent the situation; a side-by-side comparison of max dps doesn't take into account all the mechanics.
also, i'm not an expert on the df's projectiles either but they seem much harder to counter/more inconsistent than your typical rocket/pipe.
Please
sign in through STEAM
to post a comment.