Why would anyone look at the 6s meta and want to nerf anything besides scouts??? But wait there's more! Let's nerf medic healing so non-scouts don't play with good hp and scouts are even better. Alright boys we did it mission accomplished.
Almost all of the crossbow banning support is made by people who haven't played against medics who hit good arrows anyways. There are more good reasons to keep the xbow than not, and half the complaints I see fall flat in practice because they dont actually exist in game. Honestly med already plays like enough of a flow chart, stop jerking each other off about how much "skill" it takes to heal the "right target" or position even farther back then normal when you can't zoom around healing scouts. 2012 medic was different, but not necessarily better or worse. (EDIT: for clarification, i'm not saying that scout speed on medic is good at all)
You wanna know how to actually balance shit? Arrows don't build uber so you trade uber% for health. That's a good change that ACTUALLY adds depth to your decisions rather than the snoozefest factor of medic.
Why would anyone look at the 6s meta and want to nerf anything besides scouts??? But wait there's more! Let's nerf medic healing so non-scouts don't play with good hp and scouts are even better. Alright boys we did it mission accomplished.
Almost all of the crossbow banning support is made by people who haven't played against medics who hit good arrows anyways. There are more good reasons to keep the xbow than not, and half the complaints I see fall flat in practice because they dont actually exist in game. Honestly med already plays like enough of a flow chart, stop jerking each other off about how much "skill" it takes to heal the "right target" or position even farther back then normal when you can't zoom around healing scouts. 2012 medic was different, but not necessarily better or worse. (EDIT: for clarification, i'm not saying that scout speed on medic is good at all)
You wanna know how to actually balance shit? Arrows don't build uber so you trade uber% for health. That's a good change that ACTUALLY adds depth to your decisions rather than the snoozefest factor of medic.
alright i was with you until you said that having 133% speed medics is better than not having them
alright i was with you until you said that having 133% speed medics is better than not having them
Daffodil-You wanna know how to actually balance shit? Arrows don't build uber so you trade uber% for health. That's a good change that ACTUALLY adds depth to your decisions rather than the snoozefest factor of medic.
ehh as far as i know valve put kind of a critheal mechanic on the bow for uber building so you cant build uber if youre not out of combat for longer than 15 seconds
yeah here you go "Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds"
[quote=Daffodil-]You wanna know how to actually balance shit? Arrows don't build uber so you trade uber% for health. That's a good change that ACTUALLY adds depth to your decisions rather than the snoozefest factor of medic.[/quote]
ehh as far as i know valve put kind of a critheal mechanic on the bow for uber building so you cant build uber if youre not out of combat for longer than 15 seconds
yeah here you go "Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds"
4812622alright i was with you until you said that having 133% speed medics is better than not having them
No I still think this is stupid, I was just pointing out that the skill of actual positioning isn't affected much. Scout speed is dumb because it makes it harder to punish and further inventivises healing scouts. If it didn't exist, in order to not die meds would have to play even further back than they normally do. Doing that is better for balance but don't pretend like it takes savant gamesense to do.
prsn as i know valve put kind of a critheal mechanic on the bow for uber building so you cant build uber if youre not out of combat for longer than 15 seconds
yeah here you go "Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds"
Crossbows still build at a rate similar to mediguns but switch speed lowers it. It should have all uber building removed period.
[quote=4812622]alright i was with you until you said that having 133% speed medics is better than not having them[/quote]
No I still think this is stupid, I was just pointing out that the skill of actual positioning isn't affected much. Scout speed is dumb because it makes it harder to punish and further inventivises healing scouts. If it didn't exist, in order to not die meds would have to play even further back than they normally do. Doing that is better for balance but don't pretend like it takes savant gamesense to do.
[quote=prsn] as i know valve put kind of a critheal mechanic on the bow for uber building so you cant build uber if youre not out of combat for longer than 15 seconds
yeah here you go "Crusader's Crossbow
Bolt healing is very high and significantly out-heals the Medigun when the target is in combat. This might be okay given the trade-offs (risk-vs-reward of ranged shots hitting and the opportunity cost, no overheal). However, it's also the fastest way to build Ubercharge - under the right conditions (e.g. corner damage farming with the Medic behind cover).
Changes:
Ubercharge gain rate reduced in the same way that the Medigun's healing (and therefore, Ubercharge build rate) is - based on the last time the target was in combat
Reduced by a third when 1 - 10 seconds outside of combat, and scales up to normal over 10 - 15 seconds"[/quote]
Crossbows still build at a rate similar to mediguns but switch speed lowers it. It should have all uber building removed period.
keep the crossbow... and give medic a SHOTGUN
Show Content
seriously though itd be a sidegrade to the xbow imo
keep the crossbow... and give medic a SHOTGUN
[spoiler]seriously though itd be a sidegrade to the xbow imo[/spoiler]
I'm reserving the next thread about banning crossbow for the next two months.
I'm reserving the next thread about banning crossbow for the next two months.
Daffodil- If it didn't exist, in order to not die meds would have to play even further back than they normally do. Doing that is better for balance but don't pretend like it takes savant gamesense to do.
That's just not true. The good meds of old didn't position any more passively then we do today. If anything some of the older meds were actually more aggro with heals because you had to be near people to do it.
[quote=Daffodil-] If it didn't exist, in order to not die meds would have to play even further back than they normally do. Doing that is better for balance but don't pretend like it takes savant gamesense to do.[/quote]
That's just not true. The good meds of old didn't position any more passively then we do today. If anything some of the older meds were actually more aggro with heals because you had to be near people to do it.
Tino_That's just not true. The good meds of old didn't position any more passively then we do today. If anything some of the older meds were actually more aggro with heals because you had to be near people to do it.
You couldn't chase as hard with ubers because your med couldn't cover the same amount of ground as your combat classes so I do imagine that in a lot of situations medics were allowed to play slightly farther up. The general trend I have seen however now is that in many situations meds are more aggressive now because they are allowed to be when they would otherwise be punished (midfights, for example)
[quote=Tino_]That's just not true. The good meds of old didn't position any more passively then we do today. If anything some of the older meds were actually more aggro with heals because you had to be near people to do it.[/quote]
You couldn't chase as hard with ubers because your med couldn't cover the same amount of ground as your combat classes so I do imagine that in a lot of situations medics were allowed to play slightly farther up. The general trend I have seen however now is that in many situations meds are more aggressive now because they are allowed to be when they would otherwise be punished (midfights, for example)
flyyyydeguNo you don't since when sniper with razorback is 125 he's also fully buffed, so you build at slowest possible rate
You're wrong, try it out for yourself.
It's hard to say how long this will remain the case, Jungle Inferno made an unmentioned change to how uber building works (it went from "higher than 142.5% health = slower charge rate" to something like "higher than 142.5% health OR not receiving new healing = slower charge rate") and the Competitive Update made an unmentioned change that reverted this back to the old method. Since Valve didn't really mention either change it's pretty hard to say either way which is their intended vision. They made the change specifically to fix the Razorback/FoS being good passive build targets, but the "problem" was that the change adversely nerfed the Quick-Fix which essentially never built at its fastest rate unless your target was being shot, rendering its main advantage pretty pointless.
[quote=flyyyy][quote=degu]
No you don't since when sniper with razorback is 125 he's also fully buffed, so you build at slowest possible rate [/quote]
You're wrong, try it out for yourself.[/quote]
It's hard to say how long this will remain the case, Jungle Inferno made an unmentioned change to how uber building works (it went from "higher than 142.5% health = slower charge rate" to something like "higher than 142.5% health OR not receiving new healing = slower charge rate") and the Competitive Update made an unmentioned change that reverted this back to the old method. Since Valve didn't really mention either change it's pretty hard to say either way which is their intended vision. They made the change specifically to fix the Razorback/FoS being good passive build targets, but the "problem" was that the change adversely nerfed the Quick-Fix which essentially never built at its fastest rate unless your target was being shot, rendering its main advantage pretty pointless.
I HAVE AN IDEA
Give the crossbow a small burst of HP (like 30) and a heal over time. That way it can sill be used to save cratering players and heal up for pushes while not having any real effect in the middle of fights.
Also REMOVE THE GOD DAMN SCOUT SPEED FFS.
I HAVE AN IDEA
Give the crossbow a small burst of HP (like 30) and a heal over time. That way it can sill be used to save cratering players and heal up for pushes while not having any real effect in the middle of fights.
Also REMOVE THE GOD DAMN SCOUT SPEED FFS.
nothing is going to happen to the xbow stats wise
banning it is going to nerf soldiers and demos much more than scouts
nothing is going to happen to the xbow stats wise
banning it is going to nerf soldiers and demos much more than scouts
I think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.
Also, let's not consider modifying crossbow stats since that's out of our control and thus irrelevant for this conversation of ban/no ban.
I think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.
Also, let's not consider modifying crossbow stats since that's out of our control and thus irrelevant for this conversation of ban/no ban.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMiqXnO5qs
in all seriousness crossbow is OP but it makes the game more fun, dont ban it thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMiqXnO5qs
in all seriousness crossbow is OP but it makes the game more fun, dont ban it thanks
MR_SLINI think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.
how so, friendo? it potentially hurts their ability to heal team mates at long range, but there have been a few suggestions itt that would help that
I think most peoples' gripes are that it's so damn good at healing, even at close range, that it makes playing against it frustrating. if you just make it less good by reducing the healing in one way or another (longer reload/no passive reload, reduce base healing stats, make it heal over time instead of 150 all at once, etc.) so that it's on par with the medigun instead of straight up better, it would be a win-win. I think the idea behind the weapon is a good one, but its execution leaves a lot to be desired. healing at range should come at a cost, not be the preferable option to the medigun.
maybe i'm wrong, after all i'm just a publord, i don't know nothing about nothing, but just from theory crafting i don't see how nerfing or banning the xbow really hurts medic that much. soldier/demo, sure, but medic idk.
[quote=MR_SLIN]I think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.[/quote]
how so, friendo? it potentially hurts their ability to heal team mates at long range, but there have been a few suggestions itt that would help that
I think most peoples' gripes are that it's so damn good at healing, even at close range, that it makes playing against it frustrating. if you just make it less good by reducing the healing in one way or another (longer reload/no passive reload, reduce base healing stats, make it heal over time instead of 150 all at once, etc.) so that it's on par with the medigun instead of straight up better, it would be a win-win. I think the idea behind the weapon is a good one, but its execution leaves a lot to be desired. healing at range should come at a cost, not be the preferable option to the medigun.
maybe i'm wrong, after all i'm just a publord, i don't know nothing about nothing, but just from theory crafting i don't see how nerfing or banning the xbow really hurts medic that much. soldier/demo, sure, but medic idk.
ghadilliMR_SLINI think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.
how so, friendo? it potentially hurts their ability to heal team mates at long range, but there have been a few suggestions itt that would help that
maybe i'm wrong, after all i'm just a publord, i don't know nothing about nothing, but just from theory crafting i don't see how nerfing or banning the xbow really hurts medic that much. soldier/demo, sure, but medic idk.
I can't say whether banning crossbow will nerf the medic a lot or a little, but think of it like this: crossbow increases the medic's maximum potential healing per second. Therefore, banning it will nerf the maximum hps potential of the medic.
Again, I recommend staying away from theorycrafting in this thread as that isn't within our direct control. Modifying the crossbow's stats would require us to either a) develop a promod (a bad idea) or b) influence Valve (hard to do). Thus, we only have two choices:
- Accept the crossbow as-is
- Ban it
[quote=ghadilli][quote=MR_SLIN]I think it's also important to consider that nerfing the crossbow also nerfs Medics. Food for thought.[/quote]
how so, friendo? it potentially hurts their ability to heal team mates at long range, but there have been a few suggestions itt that would help that
maybe i'm wrong, after all i'm just a publord, i don't know nothing about nothing, but just from theory crafting i don't see how nerfing or banning the xbow really hurts medic that much. soldier/demo, sure, but medic idk.[/quote]
I can't say whether banning crossbow will nerf the medic a lot or a little, but think of it like this: crossbow increases the medic's maximum potential healing per second. Therefore, banning it will nerf the maximum hps potential of the medic.
Again, I recommend staying away from theorycrafting in this thread as that isn't within our direct control. Modifying the crossbow's stats would require us to either a) develop a promod (a bad idea) or b) influence Valve (hard to do). Thus, we only have two choices:
[list]
[*] Accept the crossbow as-is
[*] Ban it
[/list]
Crossbow should be banned for a season as a test, or maybe a tournament with it banned to see how the games play out
Crossbow should be banned for a season as a test, or maybe a tournament with it banned to see how the games play out
cat4812622catid play medic if xbow was banned so i dont have fucking retards say "how u miss that arro!!!" god fuck off bitch
is everyone who wants the crossbow banned someone who can't hit arrows on people standing still or walking in straight lines
coming from someone who said pyro wasnt overpowered i dont really take anything you have to say seriously
You hate playing against JI Pyro flames because they take no aim.
And you're so upset that there is one facet of Medic that takes mechanical skill, one facet of Medic that is mildly difficult, that you want to remove it?
Do you not see the contradiction?
[quote=cat][quote=4812622][quote=cat]id play medic if xbow was banned so i dont have fucking retards say "how u miss that arro!!!" god fuck off bitch[/quote]
is everyone who wants the crossbow banned someone who can't hit arrows on people standing still or walking in straight lines[/quote]
coming from someone who said pyro wasnt overpowered i dont really take anything you have to say seriously[/quote]
You hate playing against JI Pyro flames because they take no aim.
And you're so upset that there is one facet of Medic that takes mechanical skill, one facet of Medic that is mildly difficult, that you want to remove it?
Do you not see the contradiction?
7:33 PM - ckj: i love opening tf2 to "ban the crossbow" thread
7:33 PM - ckj: what a great community of intelligent individuals
7:33 PM - ckj: what a shame i quit this game
7:33 PM - ckj: i love opening tf2 to "ban the crossbow" thread
7:33 PM - ckj: what a great community of intelligent individuals
7:33 PM - ckj: what a shame i quit this game
rofl, im seeing a lot of top medics just denigrating this thread without realising that discussion isn't harmful and it's extremely unlikely that xbow is taken off the whitelist out of this
WhAT a GrEaT cOmMunIty Of iNtElLinGenT iNdiVIduAlS
rofl, im seeing a lot of top medics just denigrating this thread without realising that discussion isn't harmful and it's extremely unlikely that xbow is taken off the whitelist out of this
WhAT a GrEaT cOmMunIty Of iNtElLinGenT iNdiVIduAlS
Medic without arrows becomes a heck of a lot like Mercy. One way to heal that requires no mechanical skill, movement dependent on the people you're healing, a short range awkward projectile gun to defend yourself, and an ultimate ability that makes you and the people you're healing much harder to kill.
Nobody likes Mercy.
Medic without arrows becomes a heck of a lot like Mercy. One way to heal that requires no mechanical skill, movement dependent on the people you're healing, a short range awkward projectile gun to defend yourself, and an ultimate ability that makes you and the people you're healing much harder to kill.
Nobody likes Mercy.
ymRaisinMedic without arrows becomes a heck of a lot like Mercy. One way to heal that requires no mechanical skill, movement dependent on the people you're healing, a short range awkward projectile gun to defend yourself, and an ultimate ability that makes you and the people you're healing much harder to kill.
medic requires a universe of skill compared to mercy
[quote=ymRaisin]Medic without arrows becomes a heck of a lot like Mercy. One way to heal that requires no mechanical skill, movement dependent on the people you're healing, a short range awkward projectile gun to defend yourself, and an ultimate ability that makes you and the people you're healing much harder to kill.[/quote]
medic requires a universe of skill compared to mercy
Daffodil-7:33 PM - ckj: i love opening tf2 to "ban the crossbow" thread
7:33 PM - ckj: what a great community of intelligent individuals
7:33 PM - ckj: what a shame i quit this game
cookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play
[quote=Daffodil-]7:33 PM - ckj: i love opening tf2 to "ban the crossbow" thread
7:33 PM - ckj: what a great community of intelligent individuals
7:33 PM - ckj: what a shame i quit this game[/quote]
cookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play
owlcookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play
he is better than u
[quote=owl]
cookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play[/quote]
he is better than u
I’m telling cookiejake you said that
I’m telling cookiejake you said that
Daffodil-owlcookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play
he is better than u
i taught cookiejake everything he knows, feel free to ask him
[quote=Daffodil-][quote=owl]
cookiejake wasn't even playing this game before the crossbow was buffed, and on top of that he's one of the worst examples of braindead mouthbreathers to ever play[/quote]
he is better than u[/quote]
i taught cookiejake everything he knows, feel free to ask him
Medics In Favour Of Removing The Crossbow From the Team Fortress Two Facebook Group
Medics In Favour Of Removing The Crossbow From the Team Fortress Two Facebook Group
i feel like these discussions are ultimately pointless unless we test the ban in more than just a cup. maybe run some sort of side tournament or even ban it for a season idk.
i feel like these discussions are ultimately pointless unless we test the ban in more than just a cup. maybe run some sort of side tournament or even ban it for a season idk.