back in the day there used be a lot more tf2 leagues. Why has there been such a decrease in decrease in different leagues over the years.
why did most of tf2's secondary leagues die
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back in the day there used be a lot more tf2 leagues. Why has there been such a decrease in decrease in different leagues over the years.
what leagues were there? just curious as a newer player
what leagues were there? just curious as a newer player
Hedgewhat leagues were there? just curious as a newer player
In NA there was TWL, CEVO (2 different times), Razer cups. ESEA had a TF2 Main division at one time.
In EU there was stuff like Wireplay and TF2Connexion.
The SEA region also had shit like ATF2L and NZFortress and some small China leagues as well.
Many other small and failed leagues as well like IGL or ESA (not Esports areana)
There are probably more that I am missing or forgetting.
[quote=Hedge]what leagues were there? just curious as a newer player[/quote]
In NA there was TWL, CEVO (2 different times), Razer cups. ESEA had a TF2 Main division at one time.
In EU there was stuff like Wireplay and TF2Connexion.
The SEA region also had shit like ATF2L and NZFortress and some small China leagues as well.
Many other small and failed leagues as well like IGL or ESA (not Esports areana)
There are probably more that I am missing or forgetting.
In NA there was TWL, CEVO (2 different times), Razer cups. ESEA had a TF2 Main division at one time.
In EU there was stuff like Wireplay and TF2Connexion.
The SEA region also had shit like ATF2L and NZFortress and some small China leagues as well.
Many other small and failed leagues as well like IGL or ESA (not Esports areana)
There are probably more that I am missing or forgetting.
In NA at least most of the secondary leagues were populated by players who were looking at getting into the scene, had just recently moved into ESEA and were still playing in the other leagues because they always had, or had friends who did, and/or they were players who were taking a break or had fallen out of ESEA.
TWL, UGC, and CEVO post ESEA move were all part of that system. There were also an assortment of very small community based 6s leagues that were basically an avenue for players who consistently played pubs together to try out sixes with their friends. Most of these really small leagues only ran 1-2 seasons, as most of their player base either gave up or moved to larger leagues in search of more competition.
The issue for us here in NA is that the "new" player base is just much smaller than it used to be, and more people are aging out of the system altogether where they don't have time to even play a match a week in UGC etc.
As far as why specific leagues died:
The small pub community leagues: interested players moved on to larger leagues, and some stayed, but in either case most of the pub communities of that era have died because of quickplay options.
TWL died in part because it was, at one time, the go-to league to play in before going on to CEVO which was then the primary league, but when highlander really got going in the wake of the ETF2l HL tourney, UGC was the place to go for that and TWL, which had lost much of its player base to CEVO and ESEA by then, fully expired. Interesting fun fact Dr. Shadowpuppet, my fellow hoosier, was at one time the head admin for TWL.
UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league, among other issues. I was the head 6s admin there for 2 seasons.
CEVO died multiple times and that is kind of a vexed story so I'll go over it in order.
The first death.
CEVO was the go-to league for the first really big run of comp 6s in NA (after early TWL and fragmov or whatever it was called). It had a lot of momentum having been a major league for CS 1.6 play for years. However, their tf2 league ran into several problems having to do with admin favoritism. Essentially certain rules were applied to certain other teams unevenly based on the fact that team x may've had an admin or an admin's friend playing on it, which soured many players on CEVO generally, and ESEA picked up tf2 at around the same time and promised an eventual tf2 LAN which more or less precipitated a mass exodus of players from CEVO to ESEA - furthermore, ESEA's admin system is automated, and several of their admins had no real interest in TF2, so players were less likely to encounter admin abuse.
CEVO continued on as a feeder league to ESEA with most of open playing in CEVO as well as ESEA, bolstered by plenty of teams that didn't want to pay ESEA's fees and "learn the ropes" as it were. However that all came to an end in 2011 IIRC, because they set up a playoff during Christmas vacation, and the "default day" for the first round of playoffs was Christmas Eve, so craploads of teams refused to play and couldn't work out a scheduled date to play due to the chaos that generally surrounds people's schedules around Christmas time in NA. That particular playoff ended with somewhere around only 5-6 matches being played in total out of a huge bracket of teams. The CEVO league was then formally declared dead.
CEVO then returned with a new angle, rather than run a league, they would run a "vanilla tournament" this was in part off of the back of the hype surrounding NA's first foray into European play that would take place at the I series LAN. Tons of teams signed up, a small entrance fee was to be paid, and nobody really had any problem with that. The tournament was also specifically set up so as to fall during ESEA's off-season, so teams wouldn't have to worry about scheduling conflicts. However, CEVO delayed the tournament on the grounds that they wanted more teams. They eventually delayed another week. Several teams began to openly discuss dropping from the tournament due to the likelihood that ESEA's first week would fall within the bounds of the tournament. CEVO then announced that the vanilla tournament as such would be cancelled, and that a "vanilla season" would instead be played. Almost every team dropped from the tournament and likewise requested that their entrance fees be refunded. In the end only 3 matches in total were played, and the "season" was won by yz50 and dummy's srslybro team they pocketed somewhere around like 300$ iirc lol.
Then CEVO was resurrected in the wake of ESEA's bit-coin bandit scandal, as well as, in part, some controversy surrounding some of ESEA's then recent "invite conduct" policy punishment schemes and penalties to winnings which occurred as a result - Pyyyour campaigned under the "no exceptions" catchphrase to voice his and others discontent with those series of decisions. CEVO was bankrolled by Nahani and several other people who had long backed TF2 and the league got off to a pretty hot start, being more or less on par with ESEA for coverage and team numbers. It also featured a LAN. However, the league encountered several problems, but the *most* important seems to have been CEVOs forfeit win policy which held that no team could be granted a forfeit win, and that any forfeited match would be replayed against another team which had also received a forfeit win. This meant that in some cases one could see 3-4 matches being played on multiple maps within the same week, as your team was forced to resolve last week's forfeit matches. Although there was widespread discontent relating to this rule's implications, nothing was really changed, and ultimately CEVO died a 4th time and has since remained defunct.
In NA at least most of the secondary leagues were populated by players who were looking at getting into the scene, had just recently moved into ESEA and were still playing in the other leagues because they always had, or had friends who did, and/or they were players who were taking a break or had fallen out of ESEA.
TWL, UGC, and CEVO post ESEA move were all part of that system. There were also an assortment of very small community based 6s leagues that were basically an avenue for players who consistently played pubs together to try out sixes with their friends. Most of these really small leagues only ran 1-2 seasons, as most of their player base either gave up or moved to larger leagues in search of more competition.
The issue for us here in NA is that the "new" player base is just much smaller than it used to be, and more people are aging out of the system altogether where they don't have time to even play a match a week in UGC etc.
As far as why specific leagues died:
The small pub community leagues: interested players moved on to larger leagues, and some stayed, but in either case most of the pub communities of that era have died because of quickplay options.
TWL died in part because it was, at one time, the go-to league to play in before going on to CEVO which was then the primary league, but when highlander really got going in the wake of the ETF2l HL tourney, UGC was the place to go for that and TWL, which had lost much of its player base to CEVO and ESEA by then, fully expired. Interesting fun fact Dr. Shadowpuppet, my fellow hoosier, was at one time the head admin for TWL.
UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league, among other issues. I was the head 6s admin there for 2 seasons.
CEVO died multiple times and that is kind of a vexed story so I'll go over it in order.
The first death.
CEVO was the go-to league for the first really big run of comp 6s in NA (after early TWL and fragmov or whatever it was called). It had a lot of momentum having been a major league for CS 1.6 play for years. However, their tf2 league ran into several problems having to do with admin favoritism. Essentially certain rules were applied to certain other teams unevenly based on the fact that team x may've had an admin or an admin's friend playing on it, which soured many players on CEVO generally, and ESEA picked up tf2 at around the same time and promised an eventual tf2 LAN which more or less precipitated a mass exodus of players from CEVO to ESEA - furthermore, ESEA's admin system is automated, and several of their admins had no real interest in TF2, so players were less likely to encounter admin abuse.
CEVO continued on as a feeder league to ESEA with most of open playing in CEVO as well as ESEA, bolstered by plenty of teams that didn't want to pay ESEA's fees and "learn the ropes" as it were. However that all came to an end in 2011 IIRC, because they set up a playoff during Christmas vacation, and the "default day" for the first round of playoffs was Christmas Eve, so craploads of teams refused to play and couldn't work out a scheduled date to play due to the chaos that generally surrounds people's schedules around Christmas time in NA. That particular playoff ended with somewhere around only 5-6 matches being played in total out of a huge bracket of teams. The CEVO league was then formally declared dead.
CEVO then returned with a new angle, rather than run a league, they would run a "vanilla tournament" this was in part off of the back of the hype surrounding NA's first foray into European play that would take place at the I series LAN. Tons of teams signed up, a small entrance fee was to be paid, and nobody really had any problem with that. The tournament was also specifically set up so as to fall during ESEA's off-season, so teams wouldn't have to worry about scheduling conflicts. However, CEVO delayed the tournament on the grounds that they wanted more teams. They eventually delayed another week. Several teams began to openly discuss dropping from the tournament due to the likelihood that ESEA's first week would fall within the bounds of the tournament. CEVO then announced that the vanilla tournament as such would be cancelled, and that a "vanilla season" would instead be played. Almost every team dropped from the tournament and likewise requested that their entrance fees be refunded. In the end only 3 matches in total were played, and the "season" was won by yz50 and dummy's srslybro team they pocketed somewhere around like 300$ iirc lol.
Then CEVO was resurrected in the wake of ESEA's bit-coin bandit scandal, as well as, in part, some controversy surrounding some of ESEA's then recent "invite conduct" policy punishment schemes and penalties to winnings which occurred as a result - Pyyyour campaigned under the "no exceptions" catchphrase to voice his and others discontent with those series of decisions. CEVO was bankrolled by Nahani and several other people who had long backed TF2 and the league got off to a pretty hot start, being more or less on par with ESEA for coverage and team numbers. It also featured a LAN. However, the league encountered several problems, but the *most* important seems to have been CEVOs forfeit win policy which held that no team could be granted a forfeit win, and that any forfeited match would be replayed against another team which had also received a forfeit win. This meant that in some cases one could see 3-4 matches being played on multiple maps within the same week, as your team was forced to resolve last week's forfeit matches. Although there was widespread discontent relating to this rule's implications, nothing was really changed, and ultimately CEVO died a 4th time and has since remained defunct.
TWL, UGC, and CEVO post ESEA move were all part of that system. There were also an assortment of very small community based 6s leagues that were basically an avenue for players who consistently played pubs together to try out sixes with their friends. Most of these really small leagues only ran 1-2 seasons, as most of their player base either gave up or moved to larger leagues in search of more competition.
The issue for us here in NA is that the "new" player base is just much smaller than it used to be, and more people are aging out of the system altogether where they don't have time to even play a match a week in UGC etc.
As far as why specific leagues died:
The small pub community leagues: interested players moved on to larger leagues, and some stayed, but in either case most of the pub communities of that era have died because of quickplay options.
TWL died in part because it was, at one time, the go-to league to play in before going on to CEVO which was then the primary league, but when highlander really got going in the wake of the ETF2l HL tourney, UGC was the place to go for that and TWL, which had lost much of its player base to CEVO and ESEA by then, fully expired. Interesting fun fact Dr. Shadowpuppet, my fellow hoosier, was at one time the head admin for TWL.
UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league, among other issues. I was the head 6s admin there for 2 seasons.
CEVO died multiple times and that is kind of a vexed story so I'll go over it in order.
The first death.
CEVO was the go-to league for the first really big run of comp 6s in NA (after early TWL and fragmov or whatever it was called). It had a lot of momentum having been a major league for CS 1.6 play for years. However, their tf2 league ran into several problems having to do with admin favoritism. Essentially certain rules were applied to certain other teams unevenly based on the fact that team x may've had an admin or an admin's friend playing on it, which soured many players on CEVO generally, and ESEA picked up tf2 at around the same time and promised an eventual tf2 LAN which more or less precipitated a mass exodus of players from CEVO to ESEA - furthermore, ESEA's admin system is automated, and several of their admins had no real interest in TF2, so players were less likely to encounter admin abuse.
CEVO continued on as a feeder league to ESEA with most of open playing in CEVO as well as ESEA, bolstered by plenty of teams that didn't want to pay ESEA's fees and "learn the ropes" as it were. However that all came to an end in 2011 IIRC, because they set up a playoff during Christmas vacation, and the "default day" for the first round of playoffs was Christmas Eve, so craploads of teams refused to play and couldn't work out a scheduled date to play due to the chaos that generally surrounds people's schedules around Christmas time in NA. That particular playoff ended with somewhere around only 5-6 matches being played in total out of a huge bracket of teams. The CEVO league was then formally declared dead.
CEVO then returned with a new angle, rather than run a league, they would run a "vanilla tournament" this was in part off of the back of the hype surrounding NA's first foray into European play that would take place at the I series LAN. Tons of teams signed up, a small entrance fee was to be paid, and nobody really had any problem with that. The tournament was also specifically set up so as to fall during ESEA's off-season, so teams wouldn't have to worry about scheduling conflicts. However, CEVO delayed the tournament on the grounds that they wanted more teams. They eventually delayed another week. Several teams began to openly discuss dropping from the tournament due to the likelihood that ESEA's first week would fall within the bounds of the tournament. CEVO then announced that the vanilla tournament as such would be cancelled, and that a "vanilla season" would instead be played. Almost every team dropped from the tournament and likewise requested that their entrance fees be refunded. In the end only 3 matches in total were played, and the "season" was won by yz50 and dummy's srslybro team they pocketed somewhere around like 300$ iirc lol.
Then CEVO was resurrected in the wake of ESEA's bit-coin bandit scandal, as well as, in part, some controversy surrounding some of ESEA's then recent "invite conduct" policy punishment schemes and penalties to winnings which occurred as a result - Pyyyour campaigned under the "no exceptions" catchphrase to voice his and others discontent with those series of decisions. CEVO was bankrolled by Nahani and several other people who had long backed TF2 and the league got off to a pretty hot start, being more or less on par with ESEA for coverage and team numbers. It also featured a LAN. However, the league encountered several problems, but the *most* important seems to have been CEVOs forfeit win policy which held that no team could be granted a forfeit win, and that any forfeited match would be replayed against another team which had also received a forfeit win. This meant that in some cases one could see 3-4 matches being played on multiple maps within the same week, as your team was forced to resolve last week's forfeit matches. Although there was widespread discontent relating to this rule's implications, nothing was really changed, and ultimately CEVO died a 4th time and has since remained defunct.
marxist putting that degree in history to work
MarxistUGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
marxist putting that degree in history to work
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
I don't really know why tf2connexion died...
It could have been because the french div 1 teams moved to EU div2/div 3 to have better competition, or because it became difficult to manage the calendar of two leagues at once.
At some point in the french scene, the level of play of top teams was too different to maintain a coherent "prem" championship.
There wasn't a special incentive in staying in the french league either (no special prizes compared to eu), so if teams had to choose one league, they would end up choosing etf2l.
I personnally stopped tf2connexion once I couldn't assemble a full french roster of nice and good players and decided to try playing with international players. I believe that some players who wanted more choice of teams (like gf18 to name only him) went down a similar road.
I don't really know why tf2connexion died...
It could have been because the french div 1 teams moved to EU div2/div 3 to have better competition, or because it became difficult to manage the calendar of two leagues at once.
At some point in the french scene, the level of play of top teams was too different to maintain a coherent "prem" championship.
There wasn't a special incentive in staying in the french league either (no special prizes compared to eu), so if teams had to choose one league, they would end up choosing etf2l.
I personnally stopped tf2connexion once I couldn't assemble a full french roster of nice and good players and decided to try playing with international players. I believe that some players who wanted more choice of teams (like gf18 to name only him) went down a similar road.
It could have been because the french div 1 teams moved to EU div2/div 3 to have better competition, or because it became difficult to manage the calendar of two leagues at once.
At some point in the french scene, the level of play of top teams was too different to maintain a coherent "prem" championship.
There wasn't a special incentive in staying in the french league either (no special prizes compared to eu), so if teams had to choose one league, they would end up choosing etf2l.
I personnally stopped tf2connexion once I couldn't assemble a full french roster of nice and good players and decided to try playing with international players. I believe that some players who wanted more choice of teams (like gf18 to name only him) went down a similar road.
Sherwoodfanmarxist putting that degree in history to workMarxistUGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
there are very few highlander players that are passionate about playing the gamemode anymore. most likely highlander would cease to be played in NA
[quote=Sherwoodfan]marxist putting that degree in history to work
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?[/quote]
there are very few highlander players that are passionate about playing the gamemode anymore. most likely highlander would cease to be played in NA
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?[/quote]
there are very few highlander players that are passionate about playing the gamemode anymore. most likely highlander would cease to be played in NA
Sherwoodfanmarxist putting that degree in history to workMarxistUGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
UGC is unlikely to actually "fully die" as a league any time soon, it's something Forn has done out of pocket all of this time and has been around for longer than TF2 essentially and their other non-HL leagues are either doing very well (OW) or are relatively stable AFAIK (6s).
If they kill the Highlander league (which going off history would likely require it to reach less than 10 teams since Season 2 ended with only 6 teams alive) then at that point Highlander would be dead in NA anyways and it'd probably become a PUG only format, maybe play in ETF2L if HL isn't dead there by then, but if HL reaches that hypothetical point I doubt whoever is left would care that much to go through that effort.
[quote=Sherwoodfan]marxist putting that degree in history to work
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?[/quote]
UGC is unlikely to actually "fully die" as a league any time soon, it's something Forn has done out of pocket all of this time and has been around for longer than TF2 essentially and their other non-HL leagues are either doing very well (OW) or are relatively stable AFAIK (6s).
If they kill the Highlander league (which going off history would likely require it to reach less than 10 teams since Season 2 ended with only 6 teams alive) then at that point Highlander would be dead in NA anyways and it'd probably become a PUG only format, maybe play in ETF2L if HL isn't dead there by then, but if HL reaches that hypothetical point I doubt whoever is left would care that much to go through that effort.
[quote=Marxist]UGC isn't fully dead yet but it has decayed fairly markedly in the past several years, in part due to the decline in popularity of highlander, its primary league[/quote]
with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?[/quote]
UGC is unlikely to actually "fully die" as a league any time soon, it's something Forn has done out of pocket all of this time and has been around for longer than TF2 essentially and their other non-HL leagues are either doing very well (OW) or are relatively stable AFAIK (6s).
If they kill the Highlander league (which going off history would likely require it to reach less than 10 teams since Season 2 ended with only 6 teams alive) then at that point Highlander would be dead in NA anyways and it'd probably become a PUG only format, maybe play in ETF2L if HL isn't dead there by then, but if HL reaches that hypothetical point I doubt whoever is left would care that much to go through that effort.
I mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.
I mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.
MarxistI mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.
"I don't play this league therefore it is dead"
[quote=Marxist]I mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.[/quote]
"I don't play this league therefore it is dead"
"I don't play this league therefore it is dead"
i dont see UGC 6s dying any time soon (at least in NA) because there's always going to be teams that want to organize a roster and play matches without paying for esea premium
iirc in the lower levels of play UGC has been used as a proving ground for new teams and usually the successful teams that want to stay together for longer than 1 season move on to the paid leagues, kinda like a minor/developmental league to ESEA
i dont see UGC 6s dying any time soon (at least in NA) because there's always going to be teams that want to organize a roster and play matches without paying for esea premium
iirc in the lower levels of play UGC has been used as a proving ground for new teams and usually the successful teams that want to stay together for longer than 1 season move on to the paid leagues, kinda like a minor/developmental league to ESEA
iirc in the lower levels of play UGC has been used as a proving ground for new teams and usually the successful teams that want to stay together for longer than 1 season move on to the paid leagues, kinda like a minor/developmental league to ESEA
Sherwoodfanwith this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?
I don't think Highlander ever dies. It will just always be a secondary format to 6s. By the time there aren't enough players for Highlander, there won't be enough players for 6s either.
[quote=Sherwoodfan]with this, if UGC fully dies, where will HL players go? TFCL? rgl?[/quote]
I don't think Highlander ever dies. It will just always be a secondary format to 6s. By the time there aren't enough players for Highlander, there won't be enough players for 6s either.
I don't think Highlander ever dies. It will just always be a secondary format to 6s. By the time there aren't enough players for Highlander, there won't be enough players for 6s either.
Why do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.
Why do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.
NurseyWhy do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.
lack of advertising, probably. I haven't seen any promotion of TFCL off of teamfortress.tv
[quote=Nursey]Why do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.[/quote]
lack of advertising, probably. I haven't seen any promotion of TFCL off of teamfortress.tv
lack of advertising, probably. I haven't seen any promotion of TFCL off of teamfortress.tv
NurseyWhy do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.
TFCL is smaller, and not super welcoming to new players and teams. Smaller size means no divisions, as there aren't enough teams to fill them up. This in turn creates an experience where you'll either roll, or get rolled. I've had people yell at me (like, actually yell, with their voice) because their team got rolled. I've received threats of having their team leave TFCL if we don't introduce a lower division. It's kinda a rock and hard place situation.
Then there's also the clear lack of advertising. Aside from a few mentions here and there on tftv, and a sidebar link to both the league and lan on r/tf2, TFCL isn't really mentioned elsewhere in the community. It's just kinda "that one ultiduo league" at this point, which is fine. But that won't ultimately make existing UGC teams join TFCL HL or 6v6.
[quote=Nursey]Why do people not want to play HL & free 6v6 in TFCL? You still get medals and a free prizepot. It seems very confusing that people never want to make the switch.[/quote]
TFCL is smaller, and not super welcoming to new players and teams. Smaller size means no divisions, as there aren't enough teams to fill them up. This in turn creates an experience where you'll either roll, or get rolled. I've had people yell at me (like, actually yell, with their voice) because their team got rolled. I've received threats of having their team leave TFCL if we don't introduce a lower division. It's kinda a rock and hard place situation.
Then there's also the clear lack of advertising. Aside from a few mentions here and there on tftv, and a sidebar link to both the league and lan on r/tf2, TFCL isn't really mentioned elsewhere in the community. It's just kinda "that one ultiduo league" at this point, which is fine. But that won't ultimately make existing UGC teams join TFCL HL or 6v6.
TFCL is smaller, and not super welcoming to new players and teams. Smaller size means no divisions, as there aren't enough teams to fill them up. This in turn creates an experience where you'll either roll, or get rolled. I've had people yell at me (like, actually yell, with their voice) because their team got rolled. I've received threats of having their team leave TFCL if we don't introduce a lower division. It's kinda a rock and hard place situation.
Then there's also the clear lack of advertising. Aside from a few mentions here and there on tftv, and a sidebar link to both the league and lan on r/tf2, TFCL isn't really mentioned elsewhere in the community. It's just kinda "that one ultiduo league" at this point, which is fine. But that won't ultimately make existing UGC teams join TFCL HL or 6v6.
MarxistI mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.
sorry I gave you the wrong impression I was going 2 mention UGC as a outlier to the death of secondary leagues but I forgot to add it to the post
[quote=Marxist]I mostly inserted the phrase "fully dead" because some people do talk about UGC like it's dead or defunct when it's not; it's just smaller than it was 3+ years ago.[/quote]
sorry I gave you the wrong impression I was going 2 mention UGC as a outlier to the death of secondary leagues but I forgot to add it to the post
sorry I gave you the wrong impression I was going 2 mention UGC as a outlier to the death of secondary leagues but I forgot to add it to the post
Marxist Pyyyour campaigned under the "no exceptions" catchphrase to voice his and others discontent with those series of decisions.
Ah, "no exceptions", good times. Thanks for the trip down memory lane Marxist.
[quote=Marxist] Pyyyour campaigned under the "no exceptions" catchphrase to voice his and others discontent with those series of decisions. [/quote]
Ah, "no exceptions", good times. Thanks for the trip down memory lane Marxist.
Ah, "no exceptions", good times. Thanks for the trip down memory lane Marxist.
SidularTFCL is smaller, and not super welcoming to new players and teams. Smaller size means no divisions, as there aren't enough teams to fill them up. This in turn creates an experience where you'll either roll, or get rolled. I've had people yell at me (like, actually yell, with their voice) because their team got rolled. I've received threats of having their team leave TFCL if we don't introduce a lower division. It's kinda a rock and hard place situation.
If you won't split divisions then use a Swiss format if you're not. Take the time to create seedings to accelerate the skill matching. It's not a panacea but it will reduce lopsided matchups. Make your season shorter if you have to.
This is a problem that's manifested itself continuously across cups and new leagues and divisions for years, and admins never solve it.
[quote=Sidular]TFCL is smaller, and not super welcoming to new players and teams. Smaller size means no divisions, as there aren't enough teams to fill them up. This in turn creates an experience where you'll either roll, or get rolled. I've had people yell at me (like, actually yell, with their voice) because their team got rolled. I've received threats of having their team leave TFCL if we don't introduce a lower division. It's kinda a rock and hard place situation. [/quote]
If you won't split divisions then use a Swiss format if you're not. Take the time to create seedings to accelerate the skill matching. It's not a panacea but it will reduce lopsided matchups. Make your season shorter if you have to.
This is a problem that's manifested itself continuously across cups and new leagues and divisions for years, and admins never solve it.
If you won't split divisions then use a Swiss format if you're not. Take the time to create seedings to accelerate the skill matching. It's not a panacea but it will reduce lopsided matchups. Make your season shorter if you have to.
This is a problem that's manifested itself continuously across cups and new leagues and divisions for years, and admins never solve it.
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