twiiku was on bear's stream last night, they said they've had something in development for a few weeks now and (anyone who knows better feel free to correct me if im wrong) it will take 2 years to implement a class system into the UI

EDIT: so i was kinda wrong, here's clarification

faceit made me prefer circlejerks and im not even in any

Well I might as well put down some of my thoughts while this thread is still going.

Personally I don't play that much FACEIT. I just prefer playing with my friends in pubs or inhouses due to the relaxed environment. I don't really have many complaints regarding FACEIT PUGs but that may just be due to my small amount of time spent them.

But one problem I see is that TF2PL was made with the intention of being THE central hub for EVERYTHING 6v6. But I feel like a healthier method would be for TF2PL to be the home of actually serious PUGs where people actually try to practice the 6v6 format as well as their class. Because thanks to the community's amazing dedication to keeping the game alive, we already have websites such as TF2Center or even just in-house pugs for those people who don't feel like playing a super serious "WE GOTTA WIN" PUG.

And while I don't play that much FACEIT, I think boycotting it is not the smartest idea if the goal in mind is to grow the TF2 competitive community. This is due to the large reputation FACEIT already has as a competitive gaming hub. I also feel that TF2 would grow much more through an already established and well known platform in the gaming world than just a player-made and TF2 community exclusive one.

Now obviously as seen by the 4-5 pages this thread amassed, many people in the community clearly do NOT like the platform. And with the competitive community already so small, this many people disliking the FACEIT PUGs is an issue that needs to be addressed and handled if we want competitive TF2 to grow. And when I say handled I mean to see what the major problems the community has with the system and fix it in order to keep the competitive community playing it.

And while I'm unknowledgeable about how much power b4nny has over the TF2PL side of FACEIT (whether or not he has the authority to get actual changes to the TF2 PUG system itself) I feel as he is essentially the face of 6v6 TF2 and spokesperson to FACEIT, if he wants his TF2PL project to work, he should actually listen to what the community feels is wrong with it instead of trying to claim that problems people repeatedly have with FACEIT as "wrong." In fact, he should be relaying these problems to the developers in order to make the PUGs actually enjoyable.

It seems that most of the problems people in this thread have with FACEIT is that it lacks an organized class system, has large skill gaps between and within divisions, and has an extreme lack of PUGs happening at all. And honestly the third problem is 90% likely caused by the first two problems.

Therefore in my opinion, in order for competitive TF2 to actually grow and for TF2PL to not die, I think b4nny should actually listen to the criticism and try to apply it or relay it to the FACEIT developers.

ive left the hub for invite and advanced

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333749109385199627/441416767445663745/29jdze.jpg

Very good points, and you didn't even use your dumb face. Good Job.

LMFAO

when above 50% w/r just isnt good enough for peoples republic of china

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https://i.imgur.com/qNK9zs2.png

pugchamp would be 8 trillion times better if it had that join in 5 minutes or get a cooldown timer when pug info appears

haha what? You wanna know how many hours you need to put into a game like dota 2 to even be slightly kinda good at the game? I put nearly 3k hours into dota and I'm still shit, it's estimated that you need to put over 10k hours alone into the game just to be a pro, yet you're saying how hard it must be just to get 1.5k hours to be mid open in tf2 wtf? The same exact reasoning can apply to any game unless you came from another one with the necessary skills to bypass the grinding and already be good at it.

The solution to ur problem here is pretty simple, if u can figure out how to turn back time to 2013/2014 then you'll have your mid open players playing with other mid open players simply because the game had more players back then. You had 2-3 pugs happening at the same time daily on pugna with the same amount on tf2mix, then all of the games on tf2lobby or whatever, not to mention the dozens of public pug groups and private ones. The competitive version of tf2 hit its absolute apex in the number of players and teams around that time, and it has only been declining ever since. ur not looking at this from a bigger picture my friend.

i don't like having to race to the server to avoid playing a class i explicitly don't want to play. i also don't like potentially being captain, especially if people alias or i just actually don't know them.

fatkids also are an issue. an extreme example would be if there are 11 high intermediate and invite players in an advanced pug with rainoflight. whoever is forced to have him on your team will lose. this is just an example

adding to classes and captain were always the best advantages (in my eyes) over inhouses that irc, pugme, and pugchamp did well.

i mostly want to add on classes and not be RNG'd to captain. matchmaking queue systems don't work properly when the playerbase is tiny. i would like to say i'm not a baby, and these qualities didn't stop me from pugging, but it's definitely an influencing factor to the "should i play tf2" question

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'working with the players' simply doesnt work if your roamer is a mid player playing against funs and thaigr on scout

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This is a dumb idea but is it possible for the devs of TF2PL to purchase the code off of PUGCHAMP, for their website, that allowed people to add up onto classes they wanted to play. I also don't know if this would work because both websites will probably be written in different code languages and would require some man power to translate it between websites. Also i dont think faceit would do this because i feel tf2 on faceit's platform hasn't proven itself as a game they'd invest more resources into

thats actually fucking insane lol

the old code from the site is still out there free https://github.com/fwdcp/pugchamp-legacy

apparently they close sourced the website since then, since that's a productive thing to do with a cash cow such as a tf2 pug website

Man I fucking left out some shit in my other post by accident somehow I need to full proof read my shit next time before submission...

Anyway about the hours point I forgot to add that since tf2 is old now you will find less and less people willing to play the game enough to even reach mid-open status yet alone high-open and up. It's not really an hour issue, it's finding less and less people willing to get really good at the game. And since we are talking about the future of tf2 in a way this issue will only become worse if we can't find people willing to get good enough to play in higher divs

Also i should have made it more clear what the problem was with my beginning statement. I ultimately meant to say that having a lack of player is simply one of the biggest issues we face. And if we did have more players we would not be dealing with this issue as much.

Still there are bigger issues with faceit than this and just cause we have fewer people desn't mean we will always encounter this problem, it's just that if we did have more it would not be as much of an issue

https://tf2center.com/lobbies

I had to.

pugchamp is back up btw. its fathers day but lets maybe try to get some pugs going today

Faceit vs Pugchamp for me basically boils down to risk vs reward. The risk of faceit is alienating the existing comp base in the hopes of creating a massive scene of new players (which is one hell of a long shot). The risk of pugchamp is in not bringing in new players with the benefit of keeping the existing player base happy. TF2PL beginner has brought in 6450 players (if you combine the eu and na ones). Assuming a constant influx of players, we see 1612 players brought in a month. So the beginner divisions are doing fairly well. There is a dramatic decrease in player number as you go into amateur and advanced, 1623 and 679 respectively. Remember, these numbers only reflect the number of players in the hub, NOT the number of players who actively play. So it stands to reason that beginner is worthwhile, whereas amateur is borderline and advanced is just barely cutting it, especially when you see that advanced rarely, if ever anymore, has more than one pug going at a time.

The fact that advanced has so few active players would tell most sane people that playing pugchamp is worth it, even if it is only used by them. As the beginner players rank up, they can start to use the amateur and advanced hubs for themselves, and will eventually build up enough of a base in both hubs to be able effectively run pugs in advanced consistently, without massive delays.

One point that I almost never hear discussed is: Why don't we focus on bringing more active players of the game, i.e pubbers etc. into comp, as opposed to focusing on people who play games in general. I feel like we'd have more success if b4nny would spend his time, or at least more of it, working with valve to encourage average players to play comp and to at least inform them that a scene exists. TFTV rarely sees more than 300 viewers, and I doubt that more than 5% of those viewers are people who've never seen competitive tf2 before. If b4nny and Valve came out and said, "Hey, we're going to stream ESEA Grand Finals on Fill in the Blank Valve channel, or on Fill in the Blank ESEA Channel" that would encourage a lot more players who already know how the game works to come in and try it out, effectively boosting our player base. It might also have the added benefit of causing more people to try out faceit, thus giving Faceit a reason to change their site to benefit us some more.

I wish I knew how many players joined beginner each month, because I have a sneaking suspicion that it decreases each month, which would tell us that we're not actually increasing the comp player base, just increasing the number of people who play pugs on one particular site, as more and more of the existing player base goes to this one site.

enough of this blow up, its been 11 years, just be happy that were alive, just play the game stop worrying about something dying, if u enjoy playing it u will play it

banny says a wanting commmunity will bring in people, but after seeing the rewind documentary these people put their heart and soul into the game and im sure a couple stones were turned in bringing people into the game like i think s13-14 post i46 brought in a huge surge of players and it has gone down since

the game just isn't that enjoyable when you look in the scheme of things with no actual matchmaking at the time.

matchmaking was a bone being thrown to slow down the number of people leaving, rather than capitalizing during that time to attempt to increase that huge surge of players

stop gettin smoke blown up ur ass real talk. just play the game if you enjoy it :v

just get your captain to sub them

The point that I think Brimstone is trying to make is to encourage promptness to joining the pug. Sometimes you'll be stuck waiting for a teammate for over 5 minutes to join the server because they're finishing up an MGE or trying to complete a jump course and you'll either have to @ them in pugchamp chat or have someone message them on steam to confirm if they're coming or should be subbed out.

And just subbing people out at little to no notice from the captain (or your teammates to an extent) is a bit of a scummy thing to do, but there's nothing against doing it.

https://i.imgur.com/qGB9dGM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mSEqAtj.jpg
this would never happen in faceit

3 pugs at the same time o_o

WE DID IT REDDIT

still not banned lol