have your medic offclass to spy for a whole game and see if you win

L E A R N

I'm not talking about THAT kind of offclasses since that's a really obvious throw, I'm talking about classes who are ALLOWED to offclass, but instead of using their offclassing permission to pull out classes that are really necessary in very particular situations, they decide to run that offclass the entire game, most of the time when it's not necessay at all, and transmits that feeling of lack-of-seriousness in our competitive pug

I get trying to experiment with a new weapon or a reworked weapon/class but it’s already established that traditional 6s is the best. So anyone running a full time offclass is throwing.

TLDR

If they run it all the time, even when it's not necessary (and frequently worse), then they're creating a big weakness in their team. Imagine trying to hold any point ever with a targe demo, or having a pocket running liberty launcher and manntreads. If you have to ask why perma-offclasses are bad, you probably haven't played enough shitty games of 6's.

https://i.imgur.com/TNgWYz9.gif

Trying to play perma offclass is objectively an inferior playstyle, because if it wasn't, there are definitely a lot of higher level teams in invite/prem that would do it.

If you really care about trying to test the viability of other classes (and not just trying to convince yourself that full time pyro/spy works because they're your favorite classes), then you should be looking at the opportunities where temporarily switching to a different class would be more beneficial then playing the stock lineup.

The obvious example is running engineer on last, because a well positioned level 3 sentry gun is really good at wasting the enemy's ammo and shooting people who hold w too much, but offclasses don't have to just be on last. I remember a few season ago a lot of ETF2L teams would run sniper between mid and second (until I believe some of the angles were changed to favor sniper less).
Things like this should be what people who care a lot about offclassing, should be looking for. Find situations where pushing a specific last with pyro or heavy, would be more beneficial if your team plays around it, or a mini sentry engie holding this specific flank makes it extremely difficult for the enemy to punish any aggressive play.

THE GAME HAS BEEN OUT FOR LIKE 10 YEARS IF IT WAS VIABLE WE WOULD HAVE FIGURED THIS SHIT OUT BY NOW

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgj2FF-U8AA3rF-.jpg

the off-classes lack the proper skill sets, be it maneuverability, reliable constant damage output, health, or area control
to remain in play full-time

running a class designed to stop a push or break a stalemate in situations where neither of those scenarios is happening is akin to shooting yourself in the foot

its considered throwing because you are giving up optimal play in favor of less optimal play, that's all it is

thank u 4 that MikeMat thats going in the folder if theres any backstory or source i wanna see

entirely wrong because no ones cares about changing the meta now, and if you do, you won't get any practice anywhere because of the community and since it requires ton of hours to play a class at its pick in competitive format, you won't have a chance to progress at the same speed as the others players, Theses players therefore are considered as trolls or bad players, and so people think their class is just not viable.

https://i.gyazo.com/831dce96d6b644358b79d82fcde111e3.png

Something working in a pug doesn't mean it is a better way to play/ would work in actual matches. Pugs are so inherently random and unorganized that a strat that works in a pug may not work at all against a team with a shred of cohesion. If you're going to "push the meta" do it in scrims or matches, not pugs.

if something like pyro/heavy became viable full time the whitelist or rules would change because no-one wants to play as/against that shit

in pugs/lobbies my opinion has generally been that it doesn't matter if running highlander classes is more effective against an uncoordinated team, it's not fun and nor is it good practice so it's fine to artificially restrict them

in pugs this is very simple : the pug group you play on has rules, so you play by them.

...and then people blacklist you from scrims because "you play like aids even though your strat is working" and "it's useless to practice against that shit"

the only reason why detonator on product isnt meta is because 98% of players dont want a pyro on the server, change my mind

Having a different starting 6 classes in TF2 is not viable, we have the best we already are going to have. HOWEVER there are PLENTY of times where people don't offclass enough, simply because it's 'lame as hell.' Try putting a heavy or pyro on top of badlands spire and see how immensely difficult it is for the enemy team to push out of last against that. Try pushing out of gullywash choke with a pyro and see how hard it is for the enemy team to keep spamming one of the tiniest choke points in the game against that. You can also take an ubertrade with a pyro in gullywash choke and airblast the enemy medic to the lowground. You instantly win an ubertrade if that happens. These are situations that happened BEFORE and worked and I'm certain there's million more situations waiting to be discovered.

There are still MANY things that have yet to be utilized in competitive TF2 even with a restricted whitelist. We have so much more to explore but it won't ever happen because it's 'lame as hell.' The amount of times I've played on a team that refused to offclass during scrims BUT when it comes to match time they are too nervous to try something new out. They tell me it's because 'there's no point in practicing that' but I'm pretty confident it's because they just think it's just lame to do. Is it fair to think that these things are lame? Yeah it is. It's not fair to say offclassing more often isn't viable and just throw the idea away. This stagnates progress in a game that has a meta that can still be developed and changed even after over 10 years of progress.

alright, mildly off topic since its unlocks but the banners are a great example of people accepting something as good very slowly.
Conch in its current for minus passive heals has been legal since S17 (late 2014), Battalions since S22 (2016) and sure they did see use here and there every once in a while it took us until late last year for the to be as prevalent as they are atm with pretty much every prem team using one of them in some capacity, meanwhile last i heard (could be wrong) NA is still not using them all too much compared to EU where they very much big part of the meta

Not the best example since you are stilll playing vanilla lineup but point stands that actual change in this game takes ages and even now its still more of a regional thing (also RIP Buff Banner)

gunslinger engi instead of when pushing process is unstoppable and none of u can tell me otherwise

u can 2 man sack FOREVER and they cant push

one tiny sentry eats their whole uber

Part of the reason pug groups develop stringent rules against off-classing relates directly to the type of players that frequent those pugs. The reason for this is that often, when playing with relatively new or inexperienced players, off-classes can be absolutely devastating in their impact on the game. Grab a couple of UGC-iron level 6s players and ask them to go against a team of relatively novice players who are maining a heavy. The heavy will likely be extremely tough to take down.

Off-classing then becomes a problem for the pug group because the primary objective of the pug group is to help new-newer players learn how to play 6s competently, and they can't do that because most of their effort is being utilized in having to figure out how to deal with an off-class they have no experience in taking down. So, they in turn establish strict rules against off-classing so they can focus on trying to figure out how the hell one plays scout, etc.

If you really want to off-class or practice playing against a particular off-class (a good idea!) you just need to set up pugs on your own and make the participants aware of what is going to go on there.

off classing is Shit !!

Offclassing Is Not Throwing If You Happen To Be Better At Offclassing Than Actually Playing 6's Classes Because You Are A Retarded Sniper Main