Posting here because it was a classic shape used by a lot of TF2 players back in the day and some still use it. Some of the original versions (G400 series) had cable issues, and the shape was never refreshed.
This includes a 3360 sensor and looks to have switches separated from the shell.
Photos:
Show Content
Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/nixeus/photos/a.196743813695930/1926283774075250/
Posting here because it was a classic shape used by a lot of TF2 players back in the day and some still use it. Some of the original versions (G400 series) had cable issues, and the shape was never refreshed.
This includes a 3360 sensor and looks to have switches separated from the shell.
Photos:
[spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/ufn06I0.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/2RIewNF.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/nixeus/photos/a.196743813695930/1926283774075250/
looks really good, i wonder if it will have weights and be as heavy as the mx518.
looks really good, i wonder if it will have weights and be as heavy as the mx518.
eddie_calderonlooks really good, i wonder if it will have weights and be as heavy as the mx518.
apparently its ~100g (which is lighter than any other mx518 shape mouse)
looking forward to this mouse
[quote=eddie_calderon]looks really good, i wonder if it will have weights and be as heavy as the mx518.[/quote]
apparently its ~100g (which is lighter than any other mx518 shape mouse)
looking forward to this mouse
looks nice, I'll probably pick one up (but I wish they had done IME 3.0 shape)
looks nice, I'll probably pick one up (but I wish they had done IME 3.0 shape)
This looks sick. I wasn't playing computer games when this was popular but if it's as good as some people claim it was I might pick one up
This looks sick. I wasn't playing computer games when this was popular but if it's as good as some people claim it was I might pick one up
I have been waiting literally years for this. Been using that shape since I got an MX500 in like 2004. I bought enough cable repair kits to last me a while just in case the day never came. https://i.imgur.com/nzU5jUJ.jpg?1
Shoutout to Sepu for sending me his old G400s before I thought of buying cheap cable repair kits from eBay.
Also apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
I have been waiting literally years for this. Been using that shape since I got an MX500 in like 2004. I bought enough cable repair kits to last me a while just in case the day never came. https://i.imgur.com/nzU5jUJ.jpg?1
Shoutout to Sepu for sending me his old G400s before I thought of buying cheap cable repair kits from eBay.
Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
zenI have been waiting literally years for this. Been using that shape since I got an MX500 in like 2004. I bought enough cable repair kits to last me a while just in case the day never came. https://i.imgur.com/nzU5jUJ.jpg?1
Shoutout to Sepu for sending me his old G400s before I thought of buying cheap cable repair kits from eBay.
Also apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
Release of the "Legendary mx518" is rumored to be around october 15th
[quote=zen]I have been waiting literally years for this. Been using that shape since I got an MX500 in like 2004. I bought enough cable repair kits to last me a while just in case the day never came. https://i.imgur.com/nzU5jUJ.jpg?1
Shoutout to Sepu for sending me his old G400s before I thought of buying cheap cable repair kits from eBay.
Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?[/quote]
Release of the "Legendary mx518" is rumored to be around october 15th
G400/mx518 have similar shell as G500 right?
G400/mx518 have similar shell as G500 right?
zenAlso apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
sixteen THOUSAND dpi
[quote=zen]Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?[/quote]
sixteen THOUSAND dpi
Comanglia2. The Nixeus Revel which features the same sensor that this mouse will have (and most likely the same firmware) has a click latency that's about ~5.5ms slower than the G400s.
tbf the kana/v2 had a click latency of about 12ms so the revel is an improvement.
the mx518 (if anyone's holding onto one still like i have somehow) was somewhere between 5 and 10ms so hopefully would feel better as well.
[quote=Comanglia]
2. The Nixeus Revel which features the same sensor that this mouse will have (and most likely the same firmware) has a click latency that's about ~5.5ms slower than the G400s.
[/quote]
tbf the kana/v2 had a click latency of about 12ms so the revel is an improvement.
the mx518 (if anyone's holding onto one still like i have somehow) was somewhere between 5 and 10ms so hopefully would feel better as well.
Maxi-Comanglia2. The Nixeus Revel which features the same sensor that this mouse will have (and most likely the same firmware) has a click latency that's about ~5.5ms slower than the G400s.
tbf the kana/v2 had a click latency of about 12ms so the revel is an improvement.
the mx518 (if anyone's holding onto one still like i have somehow) was somewhere between 5 and 10ms so hopefully would feel better as well.
I mean comparing the Nixeus to the old mx mice it's definitely an upgrade, no angle snapping can do more than 125Hz without having to fiddle with shit, but the click latency of the MX518 (2005) vs the Nixeus Revel (2016) is kind of an interesting point. Comparing the MX518 click latency at 125Hz to the click latency of the Nixeus Revel at 1000Hz would suggest that the MX518 should be about 7ms slower on average than the Nixeus Revel it's actually about ~2.4ms. Force 500Hz on the MX518 and it's about 1ms faster lol.
[quote=Maxi-][quote=Comanglia]
2. The Nixeus Revel which features the same sensor that this mouse will have (and most likely the same firmware) has a click latency that's about ~5.5ms slower than the G400s.
[/quote]
tbf the kana/v2 had a click latency of about 12ms so the revel is an improvement.
the mx518 (if anyone's holding onto one still like i have somehow) was somewhere between 5 and 10ms so hopefully would feel better as well.[/quote]
I mean comparing the Nixeus to the old mx mice it's definitely an upgrade, no angle snapping can do more than 125Hz without having to fiddle with shit, but the click latency of the MX518 (2005) vs the Nixeus Revel (2016) is kind of an interesting point. Comparing the MX518 click latency at 125Hz to the click latency of the Nixeus Revel at 1000Hz would suggest that the MX518 should be about 7ms slower on average than the Nixeus Revel it's actually about ~2.4ms. Force 500Hz on the MX518 and it's about 1ms faster lol.
zen
Also apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing
[quote=zen]
Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?[/quote]
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing
code REVFIT18 on Amazon US gives you $10 off this if you were considering buying
code REVFIT18 on Amazon US gives you $10 off this if you were considering buying
lootzen
Also apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing
as of right now you can't change the lod settings on it and it is higher than the 3366 on their other mice.
[quote=loot][quote=zen]
Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?[/quote]
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing[/quote]
as of right now you can't change the lod settings on it and it is higher than the 3366 on their other mice.
well hopefully they make a diamondback/copperhead clone next
well hopefully they make a diamondback/copperhead clone next
lootzen
Also apparently this will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing
"noticeable smoothing"
Alot of things here.
What is noticeable to some isn't noticeable to others.
so to begin ALL OPTICAL MICE HAVE SMOOTHING period even the beloved WMO and the "flawless" PMW3366 in the G502. You need at least 2 frames of smoothing otherwise any kind of visual noise on the sensor will cause it to jitter even if you're not moving the mouse.
Generally speaking modern mice run anywhere from ~6000fps (when in use) to ~12000fps (when in use). so 2 frames = 0.33ms at 6000fps and 0.16ms at 12000fps.
so all optical mice will have at least 0.16ms of smoothing. most optical mice when in the low DPI ranges have 2-4 frames of smoothing.
G400s at sub 2000dpi (maybe 2400dpi) is 2 frames.
G100s is 4 frames below 2000dpi
DeathAdder Elite is 2 frames at 1800 DPI or less. ~32 frames at 1900+ DPI
G502 is supposedly 2 frames at all DPIs (for sure is 2 frames below 2000DPI)
Zowie PMW3310 line up is ~20 frames of smoothing at all available DPI levels*
PMW3360 mice all have at least 2 frames of smoothing at sub 2000DPI. ~32 frames of smoothing above 2000DPI
So when someone says "noticeable smoothing" take it with a MASSIVE grain of salt. 9/10 it isn't smoothing they're noticing or they're using a really high DPI.
I haven't seen any official tests with the hero sensor but it's safe to say that below 2000DPI will be 2 or 4 frames of smoothing max. Worst case scenario is ~0.33ms of smoothing when actively using the mouse. If you stop moving the mouse for like 5s and then start moving it again it might be just above 1ms of smoothing but it'll go back down once the sensor first detects movement.
* I question the validity of the statement of 20frames and how resolute that is with zowie mice, but I couldn't find anything better. I'm pretty sure the X axis has less smoothing than the Y axis but I doubt anyone actually teensy tested that to come up with exact numbers.
[quote=loot][quote=zen]
Also apparently [url=https://imgur.com/a/nCCzLqn]this[/url] will soon be a thing? Fingers crossed?[/quote]
Somebody give me the lowdown on Logitech's "Hero" sensor that this is supposed to have - supposedly "flawless"? Similar to 3360? I also heard elsewhere it has noticeable smoothing[/quote]
"noticeable smoothing"
Alot of things here.
What is noticeable to some isn't noticeable to others.
so to begin ALL OPTICAL MICE HAVE SMOOTHING period even the beloved WMO and the "flawless" PMW3366 in the G502. You need at least 2 frames of smoothing otherwise any kind of visual noise on the sensor will cause it to jitter even if you're not moving the mouse.
Generally speaking modern mice run anywhere from ~6000fps (when in use) to ~12000fps (when in use). so 2 frames = 0.33ms at 6000fps and 0.16ms at 12000fps.
so all optical mice will have at least 0.16ms of smoothing. most optical mice when in the low DPI ranges have 2-4 frames of smoothing.
G400s at sub 2000dpi (maybe 2400dpi) is 2 frames.
G100s is 4 frames below 2000dpi
DeathAdder Elite is 2 frames at 1800 DPI or less. ~32 frames at 1900+ DPI
G502 is supposedly 2 frames at all DPIs (for sure is 2 frames below 2000DPI)
Zowie PMW3310 line up is ~20 frames of smoothing at all available DPI levels*
PMW3360 mice all have at least 2 frames of smoothing at sub 2000DPI. ~32 frames of smoothing above 2000DPI
So when someone says "noticeable smoothing" take it with a MASSIVE grain of salt. 9/10 it isn't smoothing they're noticing or they're using a really high DPI.
I haven't seen any official tests with the hero sensor but it's safe to say that below 2000DPI will be 2 or 4 frames of smoothing max. Worst case scenario is ~0.33ms of smoothing when actively using the mouse. If you stop moving the mouse for like 5s and then start moving it again it might be just above 1ms of smoothing but it'll go back down once the sensor first detects movement.
* I question the validity of the statement of 20frames and how resolute that is with zowie mice, but I couldn't find anything better. I'm pretty sure the X axis has less smoothing than the Y axis but I doubt anyone actually teensy tested that to come up with exact numbers.
Anyone else a fan of high lod and heavy mice?
Anyone else a fan of high lod and heavy mice?
zenAnyone else a fan of high lod and heavy mice?
Yes.
[quote=zen]Anyone else a fan of high lod and heavy mice?[/quote]
Yes.
Shoutout to heavier mice, high lod and forward sensor positions :)
Shoutout to heavier mice, high lod and forward sensor positions :)
Comanglia888
I meant compared to the 3366 obviously
[quote=Comanglia]888[/quote]
I meant compared to the 3366 obviously
lootComanglia888
I meant compared to the 3366 obviously
"Obviously" you specifically mentioned the 3360 which isn't the 3366...
Now if you really want an idea of performance between the hero sensor and the PMW3366 in terms of smoothing below 2000DPI will be the same i.e. 2 frames. Beyond that it's incredibly hard to say for sure as I have yet to see someone do extremely intensive testing on the hero sensor.
In terms of raw performance this is Logitech's own graph on it
https://i.imgur.com/5zvVdcq.png
basically the Hero Sensor is 99.9% of the performance for ~20-25% of the power usage. Which is still significantly better than the 3310 in zowie mice, and at minimum on par if not better than the 3360, 3389 and TM3 sensors
[quote=loot][quote=Comanglia]888[/quote]
I meant compared to the 3366 obviously[/quote]
"Obviously" you specifically mentioned the 3360 which isn't the 3366...
Now if you really want an idea of performance between the hero sensor and the PMW3366 in terms of smoothing below 2000DPI will be the same i.e. 2 frames. Beyond that it's incredibly hard to say for sure as I have yet to see someone do extremely intensive testing on the hero sensor.
In terms of raw performance this is Logitech's own graph on it
[img]https://i.imgur.com/5zvVdcq.png[/img]
basically the Hero Sensor is 99.9% of the performance for ~20-25% of the power usage. Which is still significantly better than the 3310 in zowie mice, and at minimum on par if not better than the 3360, 3389 and TM3 sensors
I like how Comanglia is the software Setsul
I like how Comanglia is the software Setsul
ah yes that scientific measurement of mouse sensors "performance"
ah yes that scientific measurement of mouse sensors "performance"
Hey Comanglia, thanks for sharing all that info, I find it quite interesting. Where can I find these tests/results?
Hey Comanglia, thanks for sharing all that info, I find it quite interesting. Where can I find these tests/results?
lootah yes that scientific measurement of mouse sensors "performance"
Sorry for using something easier to understand when you're asking on a forum dedicated to competitive TF2 about the performance on mouse sensors A vs B down to a level of microseconds of difference. I automatically assumed you wanted someone to make it easier to understand. What I'm curious about though, is if you're going to be such an ass about specific details of performance why don't you look it up yourself, or do you really need someone to hold you hand and walk you through it?
AsecHey Comanglia, thanks for sharing all that info, I find it quite interesting. Where can I find these tests/results?
forewarning you'll probably never look at a mouse the same way if you actually look through all this. double warning if you love using zowie mice.
useful PMW3366 info
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1561041-reverse-engineering-3366-a.html several posts in this thread contain a lot of useful info about the performance of the PMW3366 mostly by the user "qsxcv"
click latency info
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1607990-click-latencies-compiled.html check most of the posts by "uaokkkkkkkk" and "qsxcv"
mouse reviews
https://www.overclock.net/forum/search.php?searchid=6517376 this user "Ino" does a lot of really good mouse reviews and will give you a pretty good idea of what each mouse is like and 99.9% of the info you could possibly want on the mouse. He's also a user here http://www.teamfortress.tv/user/ino
mercury csg sensor (this is similar but NOT the hero sensor)
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1615853-g102-mercury-sensor-info.html again "qsxcv"
info on how to spot significant smoothing
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1554228-visualizing-smoothing-mousetester.html again "qsxcv"
other threads/posts by qsxcv
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1566490-analysis-mousetester-plots.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1560877-smoothest-mousetester-plots-ever.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1613050-razer-deathadder-elite-pmw3389-t3qu-internal-pics-sensor-info-etc.html PMW3389 info as well
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1588408-teensy-mod-firmware-g100s.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1563813-somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness.html
https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1380344/f/f6/f6fff350_9NIU9UJ.png this proves that the 3366 does have smoothing despite logitech claims of absolutely 0 smoothing not a particularly big deal it was expected.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1580918-sensor-question-3310-vs-3988-a.html both skylit and qsxcv have good posts
This guy used to have a website with a TON of info https://www.youtube.com/user/recklessyuki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO22BuqLnYc video comparing sensor responsiveness of the G403 vs Rival 300 vs EC1-A
https://youtu.be/KHLsmIB8osQ?t=97 here you can see some of his website that is no longer up
there are a ton of great posts on overclock.net by "Skylit" mouse reviewer in the past still has alot of valid inputs "Ino" current mouse reviewer + a lot of valid inputs. "qsxcv" dude hardcore tries to figure out in minute detail how alot of peripheral equipment works I also regularly see him on the testufo forums for monitors. hell he helped design some of the firmware for the ninox astrum."CPate" Logitech hardware Rep basically a direct line to logitech engineers for a lot of his posts.
[quote=loot]ah yes that scientific measurement of mouse sensors "performance"[/quote]
Sorry for using something easier to understand when you're asking on a forum dedicated to competitive TF2 about the performance on mouse sensors A vs B down to a level of microseconds of difference. I automatically assumed you wanted someone to make it easier to understand. What I'm curious about though, is if you're going to be such an ass about specific details of performance why don't you look it up yourself, or do you really need someone to hold you hand and walk you through it?
[quote=Asec]Hey Comanglia, thanks for sharing all that info, I find it quite interesting. Where can I find these tests/results?[/quote]
forewarning you'll probably never look at a mouse the same way if you actually look through all this. double warning if you love using zowie mice.
useful PMW3366 info
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1561041-reverse-engineering-3366-a.html several posts in this thread contain a lot of useful info about the performance of the PMW3366 mostly by the user "qsxcv"
click latency info
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1607990-click-latencies-compiled.html check most of the posts by "uaokkkkkkkk" and "qsxcv"
mouse reviews
https://www.overclock.net/forum/search.php?searchid=6517376 this user "Ino" does a lot of really good mouse reviews and will give you a pretty good idea of what each mouse is like and 99.9% of the info you could possibly want on the mouse. He's also a user here http://www.teamfortress.tv/user/ino
mercury csg sensor (this is similar but NOT the hero sensor)
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1615853-g102-mercury-sensor-info.html again "qsxcv"
info on how to spot significant smoothing
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1554228-visualizing-smoothing-mousetester.html again "qsxcv"
other threads/posts by qsxcv
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1566490-analysis-mousetester-plots.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1560877-smoothest-mousetester-plots-ever.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1613050-razer-deathadder-elite-pmw3389-t3qu-internal-pics-sensor-info-etc.html PMW3389 info as well
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1588408-teensy-mod-firmware-g100s.html
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1563813-somewhat-objectively-evaluating-sensor-responsiveness.html
https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1380344/f/f6/f6fff350_9NIU9UJ.png this proves that the 3366 does have smoothing despite logitech claims of absolutely 0 smoothing not a particularly big deal it was expected.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-mice/1580918-sensor-question-3310-vs-3988-a.html both skylit and qsxcv have good posts
This guy used to have a website with a TON of info https://www.youtube.com/user/recklessyuki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO22BuqLnYc video comparing sensor responsiveness of the G403 vs Rival 300 vs EC1-A
https://youtu.be/KHLsmIB8osQ?t=97 here you can see some of his website that is no longer up
there are a ton of great posts on overclock.net by "Skylit" mouse reviewer in the past still has alot of valid inputs "Ino" current mouse reviewer + a lot of valid inputs. "qsxcv" dude hardcore tries to figure out in minute detail how alot of peripheral equipment works I also regularly see him on the testufo forums for monitors. hell he helped design some of the firmware for the ninox astrum."CPate" Logitech hardware Rep basically a direct line to logitech engineers for a lot of his posts.
Thanks a ton, I was already frequenting overclock.net for a while but I haven't seen most of those threads nor the other resources. I really appreciate it :)
Thanks a ton, I was already frequenting overclock.net for a while but I haven't seen most of those threads nor the other resources. I really appreciate it :)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/sPa0qPn.jpg[/img]
WEW finally got it
I was actually a big fan of the sensor position in the g500. I don't know where this idea that perfectly in the middle is the only good place for a sensor. Do you have a pic of the underside of the new mx518?
I was actually a big fan of the sensor position in the g500. I don't know where this idea that perfectly in the middle is the only good place for a sensor. Do you have a pic of the underside of the new mx518?
ShiftaI was actually a big fan of the sensor position in the g500. I don't know where this idea that perfectly in the middle is the only good place for a sensor. Do you have a pic of the underside of the new mx518?
Mostly because almost every other mouse is really close to the middle putting it far forward or the side makes it unintuitive for users who've used basically any other mouse.
https://i.imgur.com/EVU2TsR.png
just glancing at it compared to a G400s the sensor position is about 0.5 to 1mm closer to the butt of the mouse on the new MX518
stock skates are terrible, was going to replace them with hyperglides anyway but was expecting skates with the rounded edges already like the G403 had, these are pressed flat skates :(
Cable is slightly more flexible than original cables for this design (and no it's not just a age difference in the outer coating of the cable). Diameter is approximately the same. Seems to be mounted better to the front of the mouse.
Clicks feel a bit stiffer than my g400s but that is probably from significant use on my g400s.
DPI buttons are weird the DPI up button feels like it actuates a mechanical switch, but the DPI down and default buttons feel like membrane like the G400s and older mice.
Scroll is similar but different not sure if this is a difference I created when I messed with the internals of my g400s including the scroll though. Scroll on my g400s has a more obvious tactile feel to it while the new mx518 while still noteable isn't as obvious.
Plastic is a bit more textured than the G400/400s except the cover shell which is very glossy like the original mx518.
[quote=Shifta]I was actually a big fan of the sensor position in the g500. I don't know where this idea that perfectly in the middle is the only good place for a sensor. Do you have a pic of the underside of the new mx518?[/quote]
Mostly because almost every other mouse is really close to the middle putting it far forward or the side makes it unintuitive for users who've used basically any other mouse.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/EVU2TsR.png[/img]
just glancing at it compared to a G400s the sensor position is about 0.5 to 1mm closer to the butt of the mouse on the new MX518
stock skates are terrible, was going to replace them with hyperglides anyway but was expecting skates with the rounded edges already like the G403 had, these are pressed flat skates :(
Cable is slightly more flexible than original cables for this design (and no it's not just a age difference in the outer coating of the cable). Diameter is approximately the same. Seems to be mounted better to the front of the mouse.
Clicks feel a bit stiffer than my g400s but that is probably from significant use on my g400s.
DPI buttons are weird the DPI up button feels like it actuates a mechanical switch, but the DPI down and default buttons feel like membrane like the G400s and older mice.
Scroll is similar but different not sure if this is a difference I created when I messed with the internals of my g400s including the scroll though. Scroll on my g400s has a more obvious tactile feel to it while the new mx518 while still noteable isn't as obvious.
Plastic is a bit more textured than the G400/400s except the cover shell which is very glossy like the original mx518.