essentially he placed a "salary cap" (this only affected froyotech players) on his league to forcibly break froyotech apart bc they won too much.

He also banned me from his league for not following his requests regarding the spy exploit (and because I tweeted a screenshot of him asking me to take down the post)

think he banned u for being the massive piece of shit you are pete, and that's fair.

edit: just because pete is right in this specific instance does not make him any better of a person

I really hope it's rgl so that scratchh won't be able to play for the first season.
http://prntscr.com/nhrloa

also reban cowmangler please

habib should be banned he cheated before

pauly has also cheated before and by before i mean yesterday
http://logs.tf/2270254

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387764227965976579/571865210843824129/unknown.png

cool pauly can get banned then if this is true, but for habib that case was so long ago that it really cant be pushed anymore

Whens the cutoff

a year or two

in all fairness to luc, he's the main guy testing and attempting to improve competitive maps that are currently in development with his map test pugs, so it kind of makes sense to have him there regardless of his ability as a player.

https://i.imgur.com/H659Bdi.jpg

PRIME kev vibes

that would be true if you have already established that your league's goal is to introduce x number of new maps and it's a meeting to decide which ones to put in

but if the point is to actually decide what a new league ought to look like in general, you can't invite way more people who lean towards as much new shit as possible (luc b4nny and sigafoo) and not people who balance that out the other direction

what about people like me who would be perfectly fine keeping the same maps for pretty much every season? do our opinions count for nothing?

I mean, if a player was (permanently) banned in a previous league for extensive harassment towards admins/players I think it's pretty safe to say they are pretty incorrigible as a person and are not worth keeping around in the comp scene. Mirroring bans is a really good way to keep problem players out of the picture IMO. Banning someone because you don't like them is one thing (otherwise I'd have banned half of the hl players I've ever met by now lol), but keeping someone banned based off of concrete evidence that they did something they shouldn't have in the past is definitely a smart move.

.

b4nny and luc get invited because they obviously care way more about growing the scene than most of anyone else. While it may seem lame because their ideas of progressing the game forward may seem outlandish to most, it's way better to have heads that actually believe in the future of the game than let's say 90% of fucking invite that just constantly spout "the game is dead/i hate this game" (this attitude does not lead to good leadership). They also do a lot to try to move the game forward. If you're worried that they're going to constantly try to push a no unlock/no class limit ruleset, as long as a majority of you guys genuinely keep saying you don't want it then it will not happen no matter how much they say.

If anyone is going to ride on sigafoo for trying to run a traditional 6s league, please keep in mind that he already said he is not going to be running it himself. Which means there won't be a 'salary cap', or anything else that you guys didn't personally like that he did. It would be under his brand, but ran by different people.

man everyone being angry about this league stuff but shout outs to recurse for the quality intro and article. I love ur stuff dude!

i just want players to be required to use their real alias in matches

havent you also cheated

thats funny

Moving things forward is good but I think most of the community is fed up with the decisionmaking being opaque and feeling like it's just the whims of whoever's talking loudest, with what seems like 0 effort being being put into improving the process or consulting the entire rest of the community (outside of when a particular decision is completely hated and has to be reverted). All that paired with there still being no clear reasoning on why it's been going the direction it has, or really any long term plan at all.

People do want progress, it's just that the most relevant area for progress is to come up with an actually good decisionmaking process. Whitelists for example, every time a new whitelist comes out there's more headache and backlash than there were problems with the old whitelist in the first place -- which is a pretty good indication that the system ain't working well. But I don't think we've ever actually heard plans to fix this, we just end up running into the same situation a season or two later, with the same concerns and complaints. I get that it isn't easy and not everyone will be happy, but does anyone think the current method is actually any good?

This is the best opportunity the community at large will have to actually improving the way we approach things like whitelists to stop making controversial decisions, but it seems like that whole discussion is falling on some of the same people who've been making these controversial decisions in the first place.

Lucrative is the only person who hosts new map pugs every week and invites all players to join providing good feedback to mapmakers. Many of those map makers actually come in and watch the pugs as they happen. he posts publicly on tftv asking people to join and playtest the pugs. after every map he asks the entire pug if anyone has feedback and then when he has a batch of solid maps he sends out a poll and has people vote on which ones they think are most competitive ready before presenting them to league admins and discussing what they should do with them going forward. i dont understand how this is someone with the loudest voice speaking... It looks to me like there are plenty of chances for the community to be taking part in map discussion but unfortunately people arent taking advantage of whats being provided.

I also think that you are trying to get people who never take part in map testing, who never put time in to do solid long term testing of weapons, to show up and voice their opinion completely ignorant of the other side. its one thing for someone to show up to the map pugs do the weapons testing, show up to the discussion and then voice an opinion that is against b4nny or luc or whoever else is there, its another to do nothing and expect to be invited to the discussion. people who played the non restriction sixes seriously all season long are probably way more informed on whats broken having tried it multiple times ingame than others who used it for a couple pugs one week during testing on pugchamp. If I remember correctly propoganda was played by multiple invite teams in a new map cup and got feedback, then improved on that feedback and was then allowed into esea. Before that it was played in quindali pugs for a while and given tons of feedback, going through multiple versions.

What luc does with maps is definitely valuable but, again, refer to what I said about how we need to first agree that new maps are even necessary (and how often, and which maps to replace, and the system for doing so etc.) before any of the work on WHICH maps to pick becomes relevant

I'm just simply trying to say that I would much heavily prefer people who are more optimistic for our scene represent/lead us much more than people who think being in the same place this whole time is real any good. This is me saying I have no complaints there was no other invite players in the meeting. I also said later in the same paragraph that as long as people are loud about what they want, that's what they'll get no matter how hard luc and b4nny try to push their own ideas. I obviously have my own personal preference on things, but when it comes to a new league I highly doubt they'll do much to try to piss a majority of people off.

how did the last b4nny project go?

it feels pretty counterproductive to have this round table trying to "build a better future together" and then having like 4 leagues walk away and continue operating separately, not sure why ya'll gotta do it like that .-.

first person to roll out a LAN probably wins everyone's favor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM

Every casters true gripe

ETF2L has a rule for that: http://etf2l.org/rules/general-rules/#2 (2.9)

ESEA allegedly does too (or at least it definitely did at one point) its just never enforced

Personally I think ESL is the way to go. They're the largest and most experienced league that could put up the largest prize pools. The only thing they're not the prime choice for is putting up LAN events for TF2, but in my opinion, it's okay to leave that part of the operation up to smaller organizers like RGB.

Also ETF2L would be interesting, although I admittedly know fairly little about their league.

that sounds like statements from actual sports federation with the corporate bs along the lines of "we got a lot out of it(but what?) and "we look forward to help tf2 grow"

Maybe tf2 is becoming big after all