dragons fury and atomizer got nerfed to be fine. why ban DH lmao?

please don't ban iron bomber and crossbow, makes the game so much worse

good initiative for once, truly hoping, you'll deal with other weapons as well in the future.

btw some weapons could just get easily unbanned, like buffalo steak, flying guillotine, short circuit. obviously the others need discussion, because it can change the usual gameplay pretty hard

does dragon's fury not still have a weird lag/fps thing when firing? i noticed that a lot when it came out but it could be some placebo from how the entire screen flashes when you shoot it

will the results be made public?

While the crossbow is cancer in its current state i feel it is a necessary evil to keep Soldiers relevant with that insufferable Scout speed Medic buff effectively removing the Scout's only weakness in team fights.

I still have no idea why Valve decided to buff Scout in this manner. Literally nobody wanted Scout to be buffed.

I swear to god do not unban the fucking guillotine or the short circuit

Pub mains who main medic and also only play Dustbowl thought Scout was too weak.

If Dragon's Fury is so weak then why is it banned? The arguments make it sound like it got unbanned.

this is the first time i’ve ever heard anyone complain about the winger before. as for the rest, the only one i’m concerned about being unbanned is the solemn vow.

My thoughts on the weapons above:

Winger: Nobody in NA considers this weapon a problem afaik, scouts mostly use it to make certain jumps they otherwise couldn't in exchange for a gimped pistol.

Atomizer: Nobody in NA considers this a problem, its unbanned and nobody uses it. Pulling out a melee weapon mid fight instead of shooting is a meme.

Direct hit: Rarely used, giving up splash damage sucks.

Mantreads: Never used, giving up gunboats sucks.

Dragon's Fury: Incredibly weak weapon, no reason at all to be banned. It tanks the users fps, it's like aiming hitscan except delayed + ping, and it does pathetic damage if you don't hit it perfectly. Maybe on lan its a good weapon? I doubt it.

Loch'n Load: In theory it is a good weapon but I don't see it too much. Really annoying to fight when it is run however.

Solemn Vow: For some reason people think this weapon invalidates uber tracking on medic. It doesn't really. Meds rarely have sightlines on each other in the first place, and you don't spend your time on medic putting your crosshair on enemies, you are normally checking your team's health first, arrowing, etc. This weapon was playtested and meds rarely found chances to use it if ever. If you are using the weapon as your main form of uber tracking you will be caught out on a ton of maps. Honestly I think it would raise the medic skill ceiling a bit. It is kind of impressive to focus on everything medics already focus on while finding ways to use the solemn vow productively. During dry fights you could maybe try to see micro-(dis)advantages that you otherwise couldn't know and try to play off them(if you have the mental bandwidth to remember to do so!). I don't think it would be much better than just running the ubersaw (or amputator if you are a new age med), but if players are good enough they could maybe do some cool stuff with it. Honestly, if you aren't a medic main and you haven't tried using it before your theorycraft about the weapon is probably wrong. Medics are a pretty busy class, its not easy to remember to use it in the moment.

Diamondback: Free crit after backstab aint it chief. The backstab is already impactful, a free crit afterwards isn't needed- and it would further encourage spies to just stab lone flank members (for a crit now) when combos are spychecking. The frontier justice is similar in nature to the diamondback, but the crucial difference is that players have to feed a stationary sentry instead of a spy getting the crits on his terms. (also engineer can't cloak into random spots with his free crit like a spy can)

EDIT:
Oh yeah, the crossbow.
Without the crossbow med is a super unengaging class- you spend your entire game holding out a weapon that auto-aims for you and are 200% reliant on your team for everything- you lose almost all 'playmaking' potential. Most people are so used to running it at this point that I am decently confident in saying that almost everyone who wants it gone would change their mind after a week of scrimming without it. For as much as people say it slows down the game because you can't push on damage, it also allows for you to better heal up after fights where people die and push on numbers instead. Stalemates don't come from the crossbow, they are a natural consequence of 5cp as a gametype.

a balance between competitive and fun is subjective, but when is something considered OP? isn't that a bit subjective as well?

Excuse me but this is the global whitelist, therefore NA do not get an opinion.

Winger is straight up broken, especially on mids like granary, process, and gullywash. I honestly don't think most people even realise how many useful winger jumps there are. It's really strange how everyone cries about scout class constantly yet nobody thinks "Hmmm maybe this unlock that lets him take the high ground whenever he wants has something to do with it."

Crossbow is broken too but will never, ever be banned because most m*dic mains are too braindead to even know what critheals are these days. Sad!

Mantreads are great for sacking into last on some maps, please unban

Thanks for posting a public form. I filled it out and also shared it to /r/trueTF2 to help it get more eXposure.

Couldn't agree more, literally almost a straight upgrade

ban quickies

So as someone from NA who has a valid opinion on these weapon unlocks.. I should just ignore this huh?

It's just banter yao

Winger is just a straight upgrade to the default pistol. Combined with a jump script it makes moving around the map and evading much easier for a scout. Might be placebo but I also feel like the spread is lower and it just works better as a final blow weapon than the normal pistol because of its higher damage.

the winger is stupidly good for escaping situations were you should really just die - You can remain high enough above the ground for rockets to not splash you for like 3 seconds - Its also quite pathetic that people (prem players too) use a script as well to further abuse it rather than just pressing literally 3 buttons. (Q -> space -> Q)

crossbow is a necessary evil to keep soldiers from just dying from any sort of aggression

iron bomber is a straight upgrade but i dont see enough people complaining about it to be banned

the direct hit is one of the rare cases in which a players skill actually determines how useful the weapon is and the downsides are heavy enough to warrent this weapon to stay unbanned.

Welp, it's time to go back to the pistol

I wish to see the Cow Mangler return to ETF2L in the future :/

See I thought they did it as a QOL thing for medic, not necessarily scout specifically though realistically it only affected healing of scouts.

If that's the route Valve wanted to go the could just give medic the same speed boost for just healing people rather than specifically a scout.

It is easier to determine if a weapon is overpowered because you can use data instead of having to settle for all the different opinions and preferences in the community. For example the iron bomber and jag are straight upgrades as they are equipped over the stock weapon 99% of the time because they just do what the normal weapon does, but better and it's noticeable. In comparison the current available sniper, spy and heavy unlocks are all well balanced. In games you can notice that a player has the option to use the normal minigun, the brass beast or the tomislav - but there is no unlock that stands out so much that everyone is almost forced to use it.

I want to complain so much about it but every time I do, people either call me a retard or don't care.

The mostly unrecognized downside of iron bomber is how the shorter fuse time limits longer spam angles on certain maps. Although I definitely run iron bomber the majority of the time, the fact that its even worth it to still use stock sometimes seems like a sign it's balanced.

detonator unban when

I think that's a very minor advantage for the grenade launcher, the shorter fuse time has way more benefits in other situations. Especially in combination with rollers not bouncing around

The only thing about the Iron Bomber that really makes it better than the Grenade Launcher is the less obvious weapon fire, and the projectile not being as well highlighted as stock grenades, meaning they're harder to see/notice.

Since the projectile is harder to notice you get directed more often AND the rollers blend better with dark backgrounds. It's not easy to really show this cause a screenshot would still be mostly obvious in a lot of cases but when you consider it might be the difference of processing what you see could be the difference of 10-20ms or just flat out not seeing it at all.

As can be seen in the 2 pictures the stock grenade has more area highlighted by the team color and is brighter to begin with.

Something I noticed after playing against some people running loch-n-load, despite the projectiles being literally faster they were easier to dodge cause I could clearly see them coming in a lot of cases.