thats only at the invite level. anything under invite have to play maps based on a weekly rotation. so that means that lower divs will never see how invite players play these new maps and it will be a guessing game on how the meta develops. plus we wont see these maps in pugs so thats even less practice.

we recently tried to scrim a team on propaganda and the entire other team had to download the map because they didnt have a map that is in the ESEA rotation. why are we adding more maps that people have never played and that are arguably at an earlier stage of development.

Letting a engi main run a 6s league no thank you.

edit1: Also why the fuck would you take out granary and badlands for 2 maps ive never heard. Granary and badlands arent the best but i still think they are the best option while transitioning to a new league.

edit2:

wtf did i just read. Sigafoo my man im sorry this is a lot of bullshit your talking. I smell a snake.

Petition for ETF2L to extend their services to allow an NA league say 'I'

Just use the global whitelist and maps Sigafoo, you dork

Imagine being an NA CS:GO player and going to EU and finding out that the AWP is banned there and they all play on de_orange_x3 instead of de_dust2

I hate to sound pessimistic cause its not in my nature but I feel the TF2 competitive scene in NA isn't going to survive the growing pains this league will experience. I hope I am wrong but I foresee a shit season and the loss of a huge amount of players as a result. I just wish we had another option.

I experienced this exact thing back during Quake 3 Fortress in the early 2000's. The competitive community was left with only 1 option for league play and the guy who lead it was an uncompromising asshole. It was our only option back then, so we had no choice but to play in the league or not play at all. The competitive scene in Q3F never recovered.

Not that anyone would care what I say about this but I've read how sigafoo has commented and reacted to many things over the years on this message board. FFS, on page 2 of this thread he literally posted screenshots of bad things people said of him in the past. He had that shit saved on his desktop and now he is going to be the end word for everything that impacts comp 6's. Red flag for the type of person you are dealing with IMO, especially the admin.

I'm sure some witty reply is incoming, good luck this season friends, I really hope I am dead wrong cause I love playing TF2 6's and like I said, we have no other options.

.

games not ruined but playing competitively definitely is

i dont like spacecadet and i dont like agreeing with him but having some guy with a getawhale-level grasp of how tf2 (and tf2 leagues should) work is 100% without a doubt a downgrade to the nameless faceless ESEA that everybody constantly complained about

arbitrary player transaction approval and leaving sandbagging up to admin discretion will at best be inconvenient and will more likely kill off a significant number of the more experienced tf2 players who just want to play the game 2 nights a week for fun

which, id like to remind y'all, is all people play tf2 for anymore

i'm aware that a lot of people have very VERY negative opinions on sandbagging but with how sparse our divisions are already i highly doubt u want all those people to just not play tf2

i hope it works out but everything ive seen in my ~decade of competitive gaming says otherwise

another thing i dont like is agreeing with banny but hes right when he says viaduct is the odd map out and shouldnt be in the rotation because of how different it is, upset potential, etc

whats the criteria for badlands and granary being removed? they still do a good job of determining which team is better

are we removing them because people dont think the maps are fun? every map sucks if u never scrim it and always associate losing with it

honestly at this point i cant wait until froyo wins 3 of these in a row then gets banned from playing together after sigafoo gets sick of paying bannys rent

good fucking luck

emperor sigafoo makes no compromises, see yall at milwaukee lan

This is actually so depressing to see.

Game has survived 12 years and had amazing LANs. Had thousands of dollars and hours put into it by legends who have now left the game, not that ETF2L is affected but Zebbosai literally just came back to EU, and the game is only to be killed by a man who thinks his vision is gonna allow TF2 to take off so he's not compromising.

Im sorry but your league is not going to take off, TF2 the way it is now is the way it will always be. This is not the time to experiment. This is not the time to alienate players.
I hope to god someone creates a league that isnt yours, even an ETF2L port, so people actually have a choice to have fun, and it will either force you to change your ideas or have low sign ups.
Why cant you just make people happy and give them what they want? Literally everyone except very few are asking for it.

Atleast EU weeb admins listen.

but shoosh surely this will give us the tf2 major

you guys are acting like this is the end of na 6s

Take a second and think about whether this is a logical conclusion based on what we've seen

OR if your hate boner for sigafoo is just pitching a tent

Seems like half of you just don't believe in RGL because they don't like sigafoo, which is insane because he has VERY LOW INPUT ON RUNNING THE FORMATS IN HIS LEAGUE THAT ARE NOT 7V7.

Highlander had a very successful transition from a dying UGC to RGL, initially people were shitting on sigafoo a lot but it didn't matter in the end because he got established players to admin and run the league, relegating himself to the backend of the league (doing stuff like maintaining the website and league infrastructure). How is sigafoo going to ruin NA 6s when he's barely making many decisions?

sooo ur just gonna replace gran and badlands with maps people have barely heard of

at least give us logjam (widely popular in EU and AU) instead of kalinka (wasn't kalinka in one ugc season and never seen since??)

reposting from the "New Beginnings" thread for visibility:

i think what would be best for rgl is the new beginnings team joins the league. sigafoo however, has to give them as much freedom as possible for them to run his league.

idk if this was already posted on this thread but i think its one of the best options that is available to the scene

new beginnings already offered to run the 6s league and were denied

Thank you ETF2L
You may not be perfect but we love you anyway

maybe now people will stop asking me why i play in etf2l on 160 ping

Hell I played the bitcoin season of ESEA pinging 200 from Hong Kong, perhaps I take my mediocre ass to Europe now.

I don't believe in RGL because I believe the community can do better. I have been saying from day 1 that this is an amazing chance for the community to not only come together but to also make a league that the actual players have input in, rather than keeping this Illuminati shit going. But now instead of opening things up it has become locked down even harder, not only on the side of the decision makers but now also on the community content and casting side. Sure I might dislike sigafoo, but if the restrictions were not in place, and if the community was actually consulted rather than some backroom shit with majority yes-men I would have not said anything at all. Hell if it flips to that ever I'll shit the fuck up and walk away. I don't play the game anymore, I don't have a stake in it for gameplay or seeding or something like that, I just want a league that actually works for the players rather than the players being fucked by some overlord who thinks they know better or some bullshit. Hell I have a spreadsheet with something like 25 people's opinions on what they want to see from a league and I will happily give that to anyone and I still invite anyone who wants to give input to contact me. I am not causing shit because I hate sigafoo (even though it can be fun at times) I am causing shit because I hate the idea that the community gets fucked AGAIN.

im telling u guys right now this guy is like kim jong-un except he plays engi

i will swallow 10 tide pods on stream if he budges about any of his awful rules and on top of that he DESPISES 6s

banny already sold his soul to sigafoo

none of you have to.

we can stop this.

if sigafoo isn't going to be in charge why is he the one answering all the questions and the one representing rgl at the meeting?

for that matter, who IS in charge of sixes?

From the doc that's TBA at a later date because they don't have people in position yet... So no one I guess?

cant wait to play in this hypothetical league that is hypothetically being run by not-sigafoo

I am starting a Sigafoo Fan Club. Unfortunately there are no admins yet but we will be filling these positions eventually. In the meantime I am in charge so please direct any questions to me.

it doesn't matter if sigafoo doesn't run it directly when he puts complete idiots in charge of it. he himself admitted a few posts back that the 6's admins have "very little experience" why am i going to have someone who doesn't know anything about the game making decisions about it?

there are retarded rules, a retarded map pool, complete nonsense so far and the season hasn't even started.

its because he's in charge

Its sad that this is apparently the only thing we have, its going to kill the game. If esea was still around this would get laughed out the fucking door for being retarded, but oh well. I really hope these rules change and they take feedback, but thats optimistic

if we need 6v6 admins to run the league i always default to botmode being admin hes the best :)

Okay so, I've downloaded tf2 and gone to these forums for the first time in like 3 years because I wanted to play tf2 again and now that I'm out of college I might have some more time to do it. However, I probably picked the worst time haha right when ESEA ends and I'm just seeing all this drama and its a straight turn off. Idk what to think, this is about like 2+ years of small game drama which is the densest drama of them all.

ESEA might not have been the perfect league, but it was the best option that we had.

It definitely seems like sigafoo just wants to have his way with the league instead of genuinely getting community feedback or else a lot of things would be set up differently. Obviously when you run any type of business you need to think about longevity, not just what customers want, but from reading through this thread I don't think that this is what's best for the community by any means.

Map Pool Stuff
I've always thought that a new map pool needed to be implemented, and I was hoping a new league would create a better one, but apparently I was giving too much credit to RGL. It's great that we get a new KOTH map introduced, as I (I believe marmaloo has shared similar ideas) have always thought it promotes better gameplay overall and is much more enjoyable and entertaining to spectate. A 3 minute countdown provides much faster paced gameplay without teams parking the bus/being content with a stalemate, which is both boring as players and spectators.

I also don't understand why the TF2 community, or maybe its just NA idk, is so fixated on having 9 maps. If TF2 had 7 maps in the pool like CS:GO, the numbers work out nicer for pick/bans, and allows teams to spend more time on each map. When it comes down to finding out what team is truly the best, why would you want two teams to play against each other on a map that they might not spend a lot of time on because it doesn't get played often enough? It makes more sense for teams to spend more time on less maps. 7 maps is still plenty of maps to have variation while also being manageable to scrim. It also allows for maps to be rotated in and out, without really obscure maps like the two new ones being added. It would allow for maps like granary, badlands, or propaganda to be reworked in between seasons while still having a good pool available for the upcoming season and you can still have the option to try maybe 1 new map per season, depending on the community's feedback.

I could ramble a lot more with my issues on the map pool and scheduling of maps but I'm trying to keep it somewhat concise at the moment.

He doesn't have the best track record.
He's banned a top team simply because they were winning too much (lol)
I'm 99.9% sure he wrote his own liquidpedia article which is THE most egotistical thing I have ever seen, this man isnt going to change shit for anyone (https://liquipedia.net/teamfortress/index.php?title=RGL&oldid=37433)
Hes created a new sixes league and refuses to listen to any requests by the very people he wants to play this league including a global whitelist and map pool, putting in two maps no one gives a fuck about and people have told him this.
Hes been rightfully called out for living in an echo chamber of "meetings" where people only agree with him
As far as I can gather he plans to monopolize the very streams casting of his new league by limiting what people like TFTV can do, which has been the home for NA casts and happenings since forever.
He claims to be open-minded and listens to the community but literally hasn't done any of that, hes put disagreements (with prominent people) down to a "difference in mindsets".
He and his admins, admitted by him, have very little experience with 6's. Yet he is to be trusted with the 6s format? And has been told by people who have exclusively been playing 6's for years that some of his league is quite frankly shit but apparently that means nothing.
He apparently has very little input in anything other than prolander, something he obviously cares more for than 6's, but its to be trusted with NA comp 6's, which he has less compassion for and input on. If he has very little input then who is the face of NA 6's? Because all his admins have had very little experience with 6's and hes the one answering all the questions.
His policies like sandbagging and poaching have been criticized yet he refuse to acknowledge their valid points

Now you understand where everyones issues are:)

Note: Its worth noting that insomnia lans are 90% run by EU people (essentials.tf), hence the likelihood of an EU map pool and whitelist, so youre gonna end up with a situation where if any teams from NA come to play theyre gonna be playing maps they dont even get to play in seasons.