http://esperantoilustrita.blogspot.com/2012/11/esperantista-entreprenisto-premiita-en.html

Actually, capitalist esperantists end up teaching professionals Esperanto, over getting some unexperienced anglo because it's easier and faster that way. and there is a Chinese capitalist "Ĉielismo" that uses Esperanto: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jH2nCF_-4R4

There is tons of esperanto works, like 40000. Enough to be impossible to read in a single life... and esperantists can make more works! easier than in english!

of course, you won't read any of them because you don't even want to study the language itself!

So I think setting up a little experiment is a good idea for this. Why don't we go on ahead and discuss how we should do it?

Here is also a poll: https://web.archive.org/web/20191027044103/http://multivote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/3142. Yes, I know online polls are notoriously unreliable, but there have also been IRL polls.

because its wrong and I've proven it wrong multiple times in this whole thread.

Then understand esperantists (like me) before you make arrogant proclamations about esperanto!

You derived that from someone who has not even bothered to explain his reasoning, and hasn't even bothered to study the language! he could have been reasoning something entirely different.

and likewise, understand why Im responding to you like this. you arrogantly state incorrect misinformation about our language, while not even speaking it. and you don't even check my evidence by other esperantists!

And Please don't butcher my quotes like that:

Wow. you blame everything and the difficulties of mandarin and english and spanish, exacerbated by an awful education system, on me. straight up victim blaming...

And how exactly am I insulting? You all have been insulting me after that "übersaw is overrated" post (which I have since moved on from).

Ne /ŝerco

Likewise, you're arguing with me about a language you don't understand and haven't studied.

Universally agreed by long term comp players yes, but what about the learner who has to learn that beforehand? what about the learner who maybe just learned what "double" means in english class?!

Uh, 400 million people is not everyone; there's 7 8 billion people. and English takes forever to learn it properly. also, that was because of settler colonialism.

Here's a question: how much time did y'all spend learning english? (in total, don't lie or cheat).

While being wrong at the same time and not even studying our language (which aint hard btw). You all rush to call me an idiot without even fact checking your own claims!

All that talk about how I'm "not reading properly" (which I've done once) yet y'all manage to miscomprehend my own responses multiple times. lmao

I haven't said that once! I can type the characters just fine. I was actually talking to elektro, who didn't actually type in the characters properly.

What? A citation is there to show reference to previous evidence already formed.

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I was talking about primarily ASCII only environments; where no other language (like Spanish or Russian, certainly not mandarin) can easily be enkoded.

Actually, you only need a few months to learn it. Not as much as english, which takes 10s of years. Slightly?

"Efficient calls" my ass! I've seen terms like al-quaeda which relates NOTHING to their traditional term. This makes it harder for english learners, not easier.

Esperanto terms are already quite short. and it isn't a "maybe" it's a fact.

Wasn't useless for me! I actually met another esperantist in game.

and you're also forgetting that it was developed only 100 years ago. No language can quickly(in terms of years) grow to millions of speakers without lots of time, definitely not any "natural" language lol.

So by that logic. I don't need to cite evidence of climate change against climate change deniers, I'm supposed to recreate the evidence myself?

By the way, pro tip: If it's impossible to enter esperanto letters with accents (ĉ ĝ ĥ ĵ ŝ ˛ŭ), there's the h-system that allows you to express these letters in ASCII-only environments (ĉ=ch, ĝ=gh, ĥ=hh, ĵ=jh, ŝ=sh, ŭ=u).

Of course, it's absolutely possible to enter in the accented letters here, so I'd recommend using copy and paste to type those letters properly.

The English translations are not communicating the full sense. they are communicating something very different from what the esperanto sentence communicates. the future participle "flankonto" and "min" are ignored completely, even when "min" could easily be included. (into "soldiers bombing me", "demos bombing me" "scouts in me")

"Soldiers bombing" only communicates that the soldiers are doing bombings. I still wouldn't know the time or the target.

The above goes for "Demos bombing"?

"scouts in" scouts in what? in a house? or flank? in what?

overall, all you did here is remove the target (me) and the future participle! That's not expressing in english; that's butchering the translation of the sentence!

Stop. "soldiers double bomb" can easily communicate something else: that is soldiers bombing twice, or doubling a bomb.
Now if you added "in" to the above translation (to create "soldiers in double bomb"), you'd be able to remove those ambiguities.

That is, however, at the expense of introducing more radicals and completely butchering the original sense! Focusing on shortness to a dogmatic degree makes the sentence hard to process properly.

Also, "soldiers double bomb" is not shorter than the Esperanto sentence, its longer than the Esperanto sentence:

"Poduope puŝas ili" is 17 characters long
"soldiers double bomb" is 20 characters long.

Indeed, I didn't say that at all. learners are going to want to be able to communicate better, not primarily "think better".

(Ugh, I really should have worked on this particular reply some more. lots of edits I should have added on at the start...)

Such as Esperanto, [1][2][3] I cited lots of evidence earlier and you completely ignored it.

So by that logic. I can just stand with someone speaking mandarin and then understand them "overtime" without effort? That will never fucking happen. in fact, I'd give up long before then.

I didn't say anything about grammar prescribing stuff. I just said that having an unclear grammar can make comprehension harder.

and i'm not a fucking imperialist. I'm not going around in africa or china colonizing them.

The grammar of esperanto isn't a guideline like the grammar of english, it's a ruleset. Quit talking over me.

Designed in a polish house for 30 years actually, not a lab; and also with 30 years of criticism.

Where do you think the "natural" languages came from? simple, they were also planned up: by primitive monkeys millions of years ago. where do you think English came from?

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Once again, you keep citing not a SINGLE source for your claims. they'll be unsubstantiated until you even remotely attempt to back them up. Nor do you read any of my sources. you parrot the same claim over and over again.

Here is a very good source. READ IT!: https://web.archive.org/web/20191027044103/http://remush.be/rebuttal/index.html#artificial

So instead of answering me, you dodge my response and insult me, like as if a scapegoat.

That literally involves:

I am.

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I have a question brody: are you a foreigner?

So why does the german language, for instance, have a grammar if grammars in general were oh so "unnecessary"?

and again, that still isn't relevant to the actual point. made in the original quote. quit dodging the original point.
And anyway you can do that in Esperanto: you can replace (only) the -o ending, to communicate the substantive, and (only) the -a of the article with a line. this is because the substantive can communicate an adjective and adverb. example: «ŝiler'» for «ŝiler'o».

Oh yeah, me is a direct object. I forgot, so sorry about that. still, there are the

ah I see why you kept saying that stuff. you just rely on the English translations for everything.

Also, congrats! That just shows me you haven't even remotely studied Esperanto, like I thought! all of these terms and radicals used are of fundamental esperanto, that you could have even partly comprehended if you actually studied the language...

Oh wait! you can study the language! here: https://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/. now go ahead, try to comprehend those esperanto-only sentences I made. actually, i'll make it easier: i'll split up the combined words so you can distinguish them easier!

Here are the sentences for reference:
* "Flank|ont|o al|salt|as mi|n!"
* "Po|du|op|e puŝ|as ili!"

i am, and i have backed it up, which you conveniently ignore...

I literally just mentioned the impact of culture on the english language in the quoted text... I did not reject culture at all here.

For all that talk about me supposedly miscomprehending these posts

Ok, so why force them to learn the exceptions of english? why not remove them entirely from the base language?

It was not just "being annoying" that got me that hate. Even if i'm able to (which I indeed am) it won't necessarily be tolerated in real use of English. I certainty wasn't tolerated for using "misconflate": https://www.teamfortress.tv/60244/is-consistency-always-a-good-thing/?page=2

that's is because of common usage that way, indeed. but what if I use spy in the sense of an infinitive?

how are you certain of that if the forms don't change? spy can be used as an infinitive and adjective and substantive ya know... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spy.

That example wasn't about making sense, it was about distinguishing grammatical elements so that you could appropriately comprehend them.

Either way that isn't relevant to the actual point.

I agree. its not a bad idea.