Looks amazing man! Thanks so much for going the extra mile and implementing this (especially that new ramp.. all stairs belong in the garbage). Can't wait to try it out!

Downvote this if Hertz is terrible at tf2

I actually had a quick chat to Collaide about this and unfortunately he isn't intending on releasing the vmf file for rc1. He might change his mind in time but the good news is that the difference between b5 and rc1 is negligible anyways (with there being only aestethic improvements and a small bug fix I believe). So if you're seriously considering releasing a version of badlands with the modified last point, I think it'll be perfectly sufficient to just use the vmf file for b5 instead!

Thanks so much for taking on the challenge to continue working on this map! Not sure what your first listed change is referring to exactly but personally, I think the best course of action is to just change the last point to what you have proposed in the pictures, while keeping everything else the same (referring to rc1 with the 2 second cap time). I think going one step at a time is the best approach as implementing too many changes at once won't let us judge each change independently. For all we know, changing the design of the last by itself might be the perfect solution, and adding anything else at the same time might throw out the balance again.

For the record though, I think there is some merit to reworking the top chokes eventually. I'm not a huge fan of turning the upper chokes into shutters though as it reduces the likelihood of game saving sniper plays (i.e. the sight line between last and upper lobby is now gone).

That looks amazing! The only thing I would hope for is raising the lamp higher or maybe making the hole smaller so that the lamp isn't visible from main.

Nonetheless, hopefully this can be implemented in some future version of the map so we can test its feasibility.

Even without opening the back, snipers can already completely deny main. This is why teams almost always rotate through top lobby before pushing into main (unless time is of the essence). The point of opening the back would be to assist the attacking team during their actual push/uber into last when having a defensive sniper on floor/behind the point would be nothing but detrimental to the defensive team (i.e. a free pick).

Regarding the point about the nuances of opening up the top of the tube, I don't know about everyone else but something how the last point is currently set out on logjam is what I had in mind:

https://i.imgur.com/dK5zVJE.jpg

But instead of the walk way it's just the circular beam we have on badlands now. I would have to test it out but the height seems pretty much perfect to keep the lamp area concealed from spammers from main. Also, even if demos can spam rollers and stickies over the top of this opening, this doesn't change anything because demos could just as well spam rollers and stickies directly on to the point like they can now (which would be a 1000 times more efficient anyways).

Regarding your nostalgia argument.. I guess that's always going to be a problem to be honest. Some people are always going to be upset that the map is being changed from its original inception but I feel that's just a vocal minority. If you're really worried about there being a negative backlash at these changes then I would suggest just opening the back first and gauging the community's reaction to the change. From what you've said, it sounds like it would require less work for yourself out of the two changes (and it alone should still make getting cap time less of a commitment for attackers)

^^ Agree with every single point and suggestion made by riot. I've never really thought about it before but the fact that capping the point requires such commitment really does seem like a significant reason why it is so difficult to fully cap last consistently (with the 2 second cap speed) when compared to other maps.

And as riot already said, just make sure to not remove the lamp if you remove the glass. Keeping it concealed behind the metal part of the tube above the hole where the glass used to be would be ideal (as being able to see/shoot a hiding soldier or demo from range would completely negate its effectiveness)

After some internal discussions with members of the ozfortress community (including the head admin) we think there is a stat missing from logs.tf that can actually provide a lot of useful information: buffs.

Currently, logs.tf groups heals (health gained back while under full health) and buffs (overheals received) into a single entity "heals". This is a useful stat but it means an entire domain of information is missing from the stats that can be used to see how heals are ACTUALLY being distributed. We propose logs.tf will benefit by adding a second column for buffs in the heals section (here: https://puu.sh/zVWQv/d07a62bdef.png), while keeping the percentage column as total heals (heals + buffs). In other words the proposed setup would be like this: Heals Buffs Total %

I would imagine this wouldn't require much work to implement considering logs.tf already records buffs received. It's a minor change but one that we think will greatly increase the potential to analyze the ins and outs of a game.

Please re-add the second entrance from garage to mid! I find I hard to believe that entrance is barely being used as it providesa a lot of visual information and makes being flanked when entering mid far less likely (when compared to the other entrances from garage). I know for a fact Australian teams use it all the time.

In any case, if we assume your observations are true, I don't think it justifies removing it. Having an extra possible entrance through a choke point is never a bad thing as it just makes pushing easier and reduces the likelihood of stalemates. Please don't make this map any slower than it already is!

Since I'm Australian, my IQ was too high to be in the New Zealand team unfortunately.

I can't remember what map version of "pro" badlands I saw it in, but someone had edited the left side of batts (from the defenders perspective) by removing the left wall of the corridor that leads to spire.
I.e. the moment you walk from upper lobby to left batts, you could fall down to trash without having to walk towards the opening in the direction of spire.

http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/maps/51b1fd5c2222f.jpg

I thought that was a neat change and I can't see it being a bad change in any way. It just means that left area of batts would no longer be a guaranteed corridor of death that the enemy team can infinitely spam from spire. I really hope that gets added in whatever new version someone is going to edit for us.

+1 to more ammo, and +1 to increased 2nd forward spawn timer as well

This isn't a shitpost???
Everyone please welcome our newest member ty

I've never really practiced surfing directly tbh. The only real tip is to make sure you jump just before the damage is inflicted upon you at which point you can airstrafe the damage in whatever direction you like.

What yewl said ^^

Tbh I really didn't notice that much of a difference at all after the demo nerf. I'd argue the only real major difference is kritz effectiveness.

On topic though, learn how to surf damage effectively. Being able to surf any damage (especially meatshots) is possibly one of the most important skills a demoman needs to have.

Spy

Some guy on a pub who would play nothing but spy and constantly spam the "Spy!" voice command

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/544153791711732017/51A28903FAA6F34AFC4D5827152715186637CD1F/