BETA 4 RELEASED - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cp_edifice/cp_edifice_b4.bsp.bz2

This will be the last update until at least July 3rd.
Download it here or in the OP and be sure to update all configs, rotations etc.

This map will be played in UGC 6v6 season 12: http://www.ugcleague.com/maplist_tf26.cfm

Unfortunately this is not a map issue, it is an engine issue.
The version of Source renders dynamic shadows in the weirdest way, and it's not entirely viable to be able to fix them without VALVe's direct help.
Additionally, the SDK is breaking tomorrow due to the impending SteamPipe update, so I won't be able to work on this map until VALVe releases the new SDK (valve time!).

Development page: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=5889
Better download link: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=978

It's an interesting map, but it's like GPit in the way that the points are too far apart to be viably defended at the same time. Might be worth considering, but doesn't change much from the strategy point of view.

We're also bringing up the hassle of actually testing WIP maps that aren't in beta yet.
What would be the best way for us, the map makers, to successfully test alpha maps with the community so that they can be fixed before beta? Scrimming is not really an option for maps like these since there is no real incentive for teams to scrim alpha maps.
In other words, what would make you guys want to PUG these maps? The last few times we've tried to organize pugs, they've failed. What would make them work for you all?

That's unfortunate. I was one of the only people who waited the entire time and it never started.
Maybe it's a bad night, maybe it's lack of interest - but to everyone out there, making new maps is very difficult without testing. You can't expect a beta release instantly.
For mappers' sake I hope this picks back up somehow.

I'll be there, will be fun hopefully. It'll be my second newbie mix, the first time was loads of fun.
I recommend being there!

<3 you too

Yes. I've heard of those maps, along with cp_granary_fixed and others.

My question is:
Why aren't these maps played in league if they're supposedly 'fixed'?

The only reason I would release this is to have it replace the old, asymmetrical granary.
If I knew why these aren't played so I can correct mine to make it be played, that would be GREAT.

It is broke, and I am fixing it.
People don't seem to realize that you have mappers like me willing to fix your maps' problems on their own time, for free. I offered to fix Granary, don't say that it "ain't broke" when people complain about these issues all the time.

I recommend telling me all your suggestions as I'm near done with the fix and I'll have it out within a week or so for teams to test. That is, if you guys actually want a fixed Granary - nobody really answered that yet. Would it be worth putting my time into this, or is there issues that would prevent the fixed version from being played?

Thanks for your support.

You can not only shoot into the 2nd spawn but also get into it, I think that's enough to be considered an exploit worthy to fix.
I've clipped and blocked the opening off so you can't shoot/get into the spawn. Next up I think is trying to balance out hiding spots (aka windows that are on the RED side but not BLU side that are hideable, etc.) without making it so much different that players are like "hey, where's that hiding spot I used to use all the time?" or "that spot never existed before!"

Suggestions? If enough people support the idea/changes I might be able to get this to replace normal granary in some leagues so be adventurous. I won't be making any drastic changes but any and all bug/asymmetry issues I'd like to address.

I've actually been working on an actual fixed version of granary for a few weeks now, since the only other version has cubemaps broken and the author isn't really working on it.

I've fixed red and blu spawns and corrected the worst asymmetry issues already, like the walls on last and the silos on second. I plan to release it within the next week or so depending on whether it would actually be useful for people to use or not.

My thing is, I'm not attempting to make a remake of granary...I'm just trying to fix the problems that make granary odd or slightly unbalanced to play. I'll be looking over these posts to see if there is anything else small that I could change and I'll update you guys when I get a finished version.

Screenshots taken on the day I started this (before this thread came up):
Original granary (RED side on 2nd is different than blu): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cp_granary_fix/2013-04-12_00012.jpg

Changed version:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cp_granary_fix/2013-04-12_00009.jpg

Original RED spawns for granary: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cp_granary_fix/2013-04-12_00013.jpg

Changed spawns:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cp_granary_fix/2013-04-12_00010.jpg

If anyone wants me to finish this so that it can be used in league play just tell me, if you want to talk about viability of the map just add me on steam.

http://i.imgur.com/RKLAL6y.png

new crate?

I'm starting to think this would be the best option too. If we put Edifice in and it still has bugs that haven't been picked out yet, people might start hating on it and not ever want to play it again after the season.
If it doesn't make it in S14, I'd like to be assured that people will actually test it in order to prepare it for S15. There have been next to no tests on it and don't start thinking that the UGC summer season will help it get better for 6s. I, for one, would like to see this gamemode used more in 6s and tested a bit more.

tl;dr: rotation is okay for now (possibly swap a few 5CPs if it comes to that), just don't vote out GPit for Edifice this season unless it gets a lot of testing beforehand.

I'd say it would be the greater amount of choices that are able to be made (but not sure how viable that theory is with gpit).
With Edifice, I think people would have liked it less if it were linear simply because each push would most likely come down to a single route once the map was learned, and after that gameplay would get boring and repeating rounds would get repetitive simply because the optimal route would tend to be the same every time.

I say if you're looking at specific maps, look at Badlands (of course), Process, Snakewater, Granary, and Gullywash...

of course, each one of these maps has its faults. Snakewater and Gullywash have very difficult to push lasts and tend to stalemate, where Granary has bugs and asymmetry issues.

If you're making maps, like I am, be sure to only take some inspiration from these maps, because you don't want to make maps that are practically the same as other maps but worse (read: follower).

Generally, 5CP is the gamemode to go for, as A/D CP and KOTH aren't really prime places for testing - from experience, A/D doesn't get tested barely at all b/c people don't like to scrim those maps, and KOTH is generally either a love/hate relationship for each map. 5CP offers better testing because feedback will be different for each point, and testing will probably be better.

If ya want help making maps, just add me on steam - I've had some experience with mapping for comp so I'd be willing to help.

My two cents. I'll be willing to go more in-depth in later posts or if conversation becomes heated.