If there are weapons that are banned at the highest level of play then valve should definitely HIGHLIGHT those unlocks and have a talk with the best players in TF2 to get an understanding of why they are banned. Valve needs to also look at the unbanned weapons that aren't being used at the highest level of play.

If anything I think valve should make a balance mod for both HL & 6s if they have to and test all inferior or banned weapons repeatedly until they are deemed balanced.

I think 8v8 would also work better for their lobby system with 6s class limits as it resembles the player count vanilla TF2 originated as IIRC

It good to see that valve cares about competitive TF2 and are actually trying to balance out this game.

Valve doesn't support competitive play or balance.
They support getting money though.

This is valve
Money > balance

The original 8v8 that this game was originally beta tested as with class limits?
Rebalance some of these unlocks so they're viable?

Implement something like this?

Can someone explain this to me? What's wrong with changing the metagame?

Has anyone had any successful/effective strategies with any of the unlocks that aren't normally used?

Is there a way to change up the current "metagame" with any of these unlocks and develop new ways to play in the 6s format or are these unlocks too ineffective for what you give up?

Care to share any success stories about using uncommon loadouts in a 6s game?

Yes...The slowest projectile in the game that requires the most prediction skill to get your best damage output requires no skill. Everyone literally has B4nny stickies and uses them the same exact way.

I may be a noob but the last time I checked Soap DM is about practicing what you'll be using ingame. What do Demos use as their primary? Stickies.

It helps you get better at countering stickies and they also get practice with them.

Any suggestions as to not make him OP?

I'm a member at TF2tightrope which is a community beta for TF2's balance since valve doesn't use their own beta.

I also don't think stickies should be doing that much damage that close either regardless of if it's rare or not. The only time you should be one shotting anything as demo is with a trap.

Valve also messed up upon release because they never put class limits within the game. If you truly want to win just tell everyone to go medic + Demoman.

I'm very inexperienced about 6s rules and such but aren't they ALSO limited to 1 due to how much they can slow down the game at chokes not just the raw damage output? Overlapping sticky traps can be quite hilarious, rage inducing, cheap, and slow the game down to the point where nothing gets done or pushing is very slow. Some people truly consider the Demoman balanced and not OP so I thought I'd ask.

Do you think pills should have falloff like rockets and stickies?

Assuming you're close to the Demoman and a sticky is on the wall sticky would do 100damage on average.

Assuming you're close to the Demoman and a sticky is at your feet a sticky would do 125+

Airbursting normally produces 50ish-80ish assuming good prediction and positioning (but what do I know UGC steel demo lol). Poorly placed stickes do around 32-40ish.

Is his damage output too good?
Is the arm time too short?
Blast radius too big?
How do we not make him OP if he is?

Thank you for your replies ppl.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2253

At close range with full ramp up, yes!

Stickies do max damage directly below the targets center of mass.

I'd like to agree with you but sometimes I question that.

Even with stock Pyro, Heavy, and (maybe) Demoman have issues

Not even close...This game is watered down with joke imbalanced unlocks it isn't even funny. Valve tossed balance out long ago.

Thread title

I main Demoman and have a biased opinion on his balance. I come from hell (SPUF) and I've been seeing a few Demo is OP shenanigans and I'd really like to talk to a higher level community about his balance since I might be deluded since I don't want him nerfed but if he does I'd rather get confirmation from a more intelligent community.

Do you yourself see any balancing issues with this class?
Is he truly too good? Or just "perfect" for what he does?

In general might I add (6s, 9s, 12s)