O_O

the idea of 'what deserves to be better' was relevant because my point is that they lowered his skill ceiling, but increased his impact by a lot. the old style of pyro was worse but required more effort. it used to be u aim no where near the target, m2 for the obvious arc, switch weps then actually aim a gun. now u just aim in general direction twice amd they die even faster.

we havent even talked about the buff to the w+m1 shit which is what all the pubbers were mad at and required the least amount of skill of killing someone in the game. -6 to -13. thats definitely up there with the most stupidest things theyve done to the game. its irrelevant to u though cause ur just interested in the DF and 6s and im just interested in how people are going to get good at this game / how rewarding or stupid ways of killing are etc.

but since u dont rly care about that and u care about it being unbanned i guess ill just mention why it shouldnt. u cant always help not being in its range i.e on the point which means in some sort of stupid as fuck situation, its gonna be effective in some cherry picked clip.

i dont care about 6s at all nor do i play it but i kno everyone got frustrated when they added all those unlocks the first time round because the game got stupider, was boring to play and didnt accomplish anything but now you can say to a bunch of pubbers who dont actually care that there isnt that many weapon restrictions.

i mean i can see it now. 3 ppl on cap on gully last, DF drops down and insta kills them all. imagine seeing that in a frag vid. does that sound impressive? did the ppl on the cap get out played? its just stupid. it would be the pinnacle of stupidity if allowed and im sure the majority of ppl think so too. watching a DF frag vid would be like watching an OW frag vid.

if you, as an invite player, used that shit in a casted game i think it would be pretty bad for the game. if u talk about tf2 with some cs player or guy from school, the existance of pyro, heavy and engi is the first reason they say this game is for children and its too easy. if u kill those 3 ppl on gullywash last and bobbybasketball looks at that and thinks 'pff these are the best players in the game? i can do that too. im as good as them' then its bad for the game because we lose interest as viewers, ppl playing lose interest gradually because the game is gradually becoming more boring/stupid etc and the game needs less of that.

its not a question of it being OP or underpowered or anything like that. its been play tested and we know its awful to be ran full time, so we wont see it there, but what we would probably see is really stupid last defences where the pyro just gets the most free 6k theyve ever had in their life cause no one who uses this forum is gonna miss with that thing.

it has terrible weapon design. it being better than scouts or soldiers up close isnt an issue at all its just theres a huge difference in amount of effort required, as everyone in this thread hs been saying until they blue in the face. if they increase the range but make it actually impressive to get that 2 shot, like a double donk or something idk, then no ones got any problem with it being like that.

so are u agreeing or disagreeing? cause u said u disagree but then said exactly wat i was thinking, that the rescue ranger doesnt increase the skill ceiling and lowers it. u didnt even mention how u can just place ur gun somewhere and pick it up from range and it be perfectly safe, or u can go get ammo willy nilly and just repair from range

im talking about degresser pyro i.e 2013 pyro and comparing it to 2017 which in this example is just soley the dragons fury alone. 2017 pyro doesnt need any secondaries. it can deal with pyros just fine, so doesnt need a shotgun and does fast enough damage to not need the flare. shotguns also gonna do dickcheese at long range, flare has a massive cool down. neither are even worth taking out. its like saying as scout you use the pistol until ur close enough for the scattergun to not do 3 damage, but even that is more realistic cause the switch from pistol to scatter is much faster than flare to df.

now the degresser pyro is garbage compared to this shit, but the question is which deserves to be better than the other? even when u could airblast for 100 percent consistent flare, i still think pyro in 2013 had a higher skill ceiling. if u placed the crosshair exactly where it is in that pic would the flare gun hit? fuck no. only other wep that requires this little aim is the medi gun, other than the other flame throwers.

the 1 flame particle thing also isnt relevant cause in 2013 it wasnt the damage dealer, the 90 damage flare was. the flame thrower was just there to do -6 then u switch. the aiming of it is irrelevant cause it wasnt used to do damage, just a reliable way to set ppl on fire so u can do damage after.

in the time the DF kills a scout the old flames itself (no flare) would do idk 30-60 damage? when carpet makes the new vid using it and doing similar shit that darknecrid did in that vid we can have a better real life example i guess. if b4nny had vods up of when he first used it, where like 6 ppl chase him hes low hp and he kills them all, taking no damage and is kind of surprised id clip that and show u

idc about the animation i care about where the crosshair is placed which is light years away. do u think this is harder than lighting someone on fire with old flames and then hitting a flare straight after? there's no way, but this dragons fury shit is even better than that, within range ofc, kills faster, u dont gotta switch, now ur secondary can be whatever and its also easier.

https://i.imgur.com/pT4jPlB.jpg

it had a higher skill ceiling when i was playing pyro and ppl did the degresser axtinguisher thing than this. u just sort of kind of aim it where they are with huge margin for error, if they in range, it hits, and then u just do the same shit again. why people think this is harder than what we had before i dont get it. u can 2 shot a scout for the same aim as hitting two -3s. pic shown isnt even a -3

they lowered pyros skill ceiling in recent update including the pyro one, lowered spy's with the amby, lowered engi with the rescue ranger. i guess increased heavy cause its harder to do the shit he was doing before, but making it harder doesnt really mean higher skill ceiling anyway. the more the update the worse the game gets

i dont think engis really use those things though not even the gunslinger ones. comp ones do, but the pub ones just sit behind and let the game play for them, which is why when u go to fight one they will consistently miss all 6 shots cause they rarely use it despite the slow move speed

the DF isn't even that much harder to aim than the regular, you can still miss and hit, you've just gotta be consciously shooting someone and twice. it still has an extremely low skill ceiling that wont transfer to anything other than being aware youre shooting a target i guess

idc about them being viable to 6s but they should have transferable skills in some way or form, doesnt have to be aiming but ofc thats the obvious one. they can do the same shit they do now as roles in the game, idc, but at least transfer to other classes or even other games.

theres too many players in this game with 1-4k hours who have the skill and understanding of a player who has played for 100. ppl who have like 500 on classes like engi are basically just wasting their time and making no progression what so ever. i think its the main issue why theres so many pubbers and not that many people who follow comp in some way, not because awareness or rigid class things or anythimg like that. they say its how 'stale' it is, but really couldnt play even if they wanted to cause they rly never learned the basics of the game, then use that as an excuse or pretend the white-list is as restrictive as it was, which is why there wasnt any noticable increase of players once it was reduced to how ever many unlocks there are.
its the same shit for medic, pyro; heavy and spy (now theres none of them are gonna use the amby), which is the majority of the classes in the game.

if we didnt have those classes, perception in the wider community of Gamers would be the opposite of what it was now, probably like overwatch but not easy and free money and shit, which would lead to more players which would lead to more money in the game, etc.

HAH classic ignorant response from someone that doesnt understand gaming. Get rekt upon dude. Gamers IQ too high for you I guess

stfu dude we are gamers, we are a community and we are strong. your cruel words will not tear us down

ETA

362 days

all i do is play tf2 and watch anime

how could this happen? hopefully someone brings this tyrant down and justice prevails

i guess you didnt see dark necrids vid where he runs in a straight line at ppl in a difficult area to push, flailing around in circles and gets like 8 ppl killed for it. kind of reminds me of that carpet phlog vid, but obv not as powerful. but that got a buff too right? so imagine this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZhVFBMd260 @ 2:45, today. he'd probably kill the soldier and medics behind too i guess but i guess thats just balanced and skillful etc. those heavies, 3 of them, were all out of position and shit and got outplayed. that same design got buffed

or the jediflamaster vid where hes killing the scout by flailing at the same speed a 3 shot would. the scout never fires a fourth shot. ofc hes playing the matchup wrong by running forward into it and not pussying away, which he could do for 4 shots, take no damage and then move in for a 2 shot if the pyro didnt die to the 4, which is boring for both, just the same boring approach to the same boring fight, but ofc scout v pyro mge is stupid anyway.

idk why youre talking shit about 'flex' like it wasn't already common knowledge that the new pyro doesnt do anything new tor 6s, apart from maybe that cherry picked swelan clip. im sure were all talking about casual which is the only thing this shit pertains to anyway and i guess HL but idk about tha shit

if we assume the pyro isnt some guy who just installed the game, and was one of those pyro mains with da MLP avatar and unusual circling hearts hat, u kno the type, if youre in their range, theyre gonna hit you. jediflamasters gonna hit u every time... we'll community fund u to come to europe to feel his flames... so now u got 2 options. 1. actually 3 shot him, but live with 20 Hp or less and die to after burn while he just spawned or 2. pussy away and while youre doing that be vulnerable to the other 11 ppl who will now shoot you in the back

so thats why the range is a retarded way to balance. idk why the mongos keep saying that range shit like thats a proper effective way to balance any wep. or like how i usually die to it where im fighting 3 ppl in front, taking no damage cause theyre pubbers and then get ran over by 1 from behind who insta kills me

the last time i played tf2, the guy top scoring by far on harvest was doing phlog and jet pack, jetpacks to the point and just phlogs it cause its like a small house where nothing can touch it. ofc i didnt die to it, but all my mongo team did and if i were to stop it id have to do 30 damage shots at range while the other ppl on his team were shooting my back.

no ones said it was OP, but isnt that just a stupid way to die?

but overall, theyre not gonna change this shit anyway. the update was too hyped and the initial reaction was so mixed cause a lot of people just want to be happy about it cause they had high hopes, when really this update was garbage. it was probably the most well received update ever, in which it was mixed, so i guess valve feel pretty good about making the game stupider on multiple levels now. its not rly something to care about though cause it doesnt effect it THAT much but its still facking stupid

ETA

363 days

great discovery. ive forwaded this info to my team members and can't wait to implement it in our snakewater gameplay.

ill sort this out rest assured