The way people played Tribes has no bearing on this place, despite the stories I can tell of the things I saw in the Tribes games before Ascend recently. Believe it or not, success doesn't mandate that you have a gigantic playerbase. People still play Brood War to this day, the older Tribes games have some dedicated veterans who won't leave, UT99 is the same, Quake continues to live on, pretty sure the 40k RTS games have their own tiny scene too from what I last saw years ago - you get the point. We have our own system in place just like every other competitive scene.

http://puu.sh/3aQuj

The comedy of errors starts at 12:30 EST

Just don't even bother posting.

Then it begs the following questions:
1) If this replacement stepping stone is essentially what comp tf2 was like five years ago (two of everything plus the items that have been added over the years), why are we being put into this corner when we have a system that creates a skill-based and balanced environment?

2) We've proven on more than one occasion that a majority of the unlocks are either game changing to the point where adapting would entail using the same unlock to counter the effect it has, so niche there's no point to them existing, or the rare few that provide enough utility and advantage with a respectable penalty. Is Robin truly this adamant about the usage of unlocks that he is willing to make sure that balance even comes about? We've all been around long enough to know that TF2 hasn't received the greatest treatment over the years despite being the sequel to one of the most beloved team-based shooters of all time, and we're all well aware of how "speedy" Valve is at releasing things. Can we put our trust in Walker to hold up his end of the bargain?

That's a good point. I highly doubt it's cbear's exaggerated "one old man and his intern" running the tf2 show, but it seems like Valve has been sticking to their "use TF2 as our lab rat for things we want to put into our other/future games" mentality they've had since the Spy/Sniper hat update and only now Robin is like "WHOOPS".

I also want to bring up what oov said about people not wanting to pay a single cent for competitive stuff in the stream chat. I'm almost positive that none of us here would pay for utilities like STV demos and "up to the minute happenings" in the TF2 scene because if you're into comp TF2, you more than likely browse tf.tv, you're in the loop, and you're well-versed in the technology and utilities at your disposal.

It would seem at this point there are some things that are out of our reach and others that just wouldn't benefit Valve at all.

So from watching cbear attempt to jump, I've learned that he likes the idea because it effectively creates a middle ground that will allow for players who want to transition into 6s to do so.

The problem here lies in the laxity of the rules, items, and the way the classes are balanced inherently. You have someone playing this way (the proposed new way) long enough for them to get confident in playing. They come in, see our ruleset and limits and go "Wow they use none of the items, I liked it better the old way, this is boring". Those who do subscribe to the 6s we play now if the middle ground comes to pass would have probably liked the idea of 6s regardless of the existence of the middle ground. It falls into Tagg's prophecy of a community schism based around those who sit in the 6s middle ground, those who play HL, those who play what would be traditional 6s, and those who play pubs. We'd be much better off (as it has been said time and time again by countless others before me, including Tagg and Lansky in cbear's stream ever so recently) getting our name as a group put out to the TF2 community as a whole

to get players into 6s or even HL.

Creating a middle ground is fine and all, but it doesn't truly create an effective bridge to 6s. The HL to 6s bridge works because its the same mindset and gameplay with a different strategic take. Although I do agree that doing the same thing over and over with the same strategy gets REALLY stale (lookin' at you Dungeon Defenders and The Showdown Effect), having a goofy 6s funhouse with 2 of everything and all unlocks just feels like it would create yet another subgroup of TF2 instead of actually exposing them to the way 6s and HL are played. Speaking of the way HL is played, maybe THAT could be the focus of the changes. I remember during the period between T:A and pubbing NS2, I was talking about my past to the crew that stuck around from T:A and I got comments that HL plays like "fucking molasses" even though they like all classes "being allowed" in play. The "stupid unlocks" also ended up being a negative point.

tl;dr - A middle ground will inevitably create more problems than it would be worth if it is too much unlike 6s and drive people away if it is too much like 6s. The best option would be the long-talked about outreach programs, specifically a Valve-supported one in which our streams, matches, and scrims will be put in the forefront of the average player's mind. I think instead of putting the resources into that middle ground, it should be put into class and item refinement

. This would improve HL quite a lot, maybe alleviating the long boring matches everyone dislikes sitting through.

LET IT GO

My mother shifted jobs a lot over her life, and before she became a tutor she worked in an accounting firm as a client manager. Basically, she'd do a lot of over-the-phone work and some meetings with clients to tell them what to expect when they talked to the boss man. I got a job for a week here and there since I was 11, sorting old client folders into alphabetical order and making sure the filing cabinets were updated and some menial jobs like shredding documents. I got about $100 every week I worked there.

Then I got a job at the sleepaway camp I was a camper at for a summer. I was too old for the camper "work program" by a year, but I was just old enough to come back as junior staff with some of my camp buddies. Did it for two summers before I aged out of junior staff. I was part of the office staff because of my previous experience, and I was put in charge of the "Teenside" office (a shack with some office furnishings on the side of camp for everyone above the age of 12) with one of the girls who also came back as jr. staff. I clocked in at 8 and left at 3 if I had morning shift, and evening shift was from 3 to 9. I had to talk to overprotective parents, sort camper packages and mail, take care of some injuries, mingle with the campers, and clean kitchen staff aprons for some reason, but I got to goof off most of the time except when one of the off-duty counselors was torrenting and everyone else who was off-duty came to me asking why the internet was fucked up. I got $300 for my first summer and $500 for my second.

Now I earn my keep at home by helping my mother with her tutoring business. I set up programs she needs help with, torrent textbooks she can't find, and review student homework. In July I should be starting a 9 to 3 job with my local Rabbi. He's already got counselors and I get paid by the city, so he told me he's gonna send me home with those hours for the day clocked if he can't find anything that needs some management or muscle. I think the worst part of this job is gonna be over before I start it - I had to stand in a line in front of the Jamaica, Queens YMCA for six hours to show my papers and get my ID. I still have to go for two four-hour orientation sessions.

OP: Find something that you think you might like that's within your grasp. You may or may not like it, and you might quit for a variety of reasons, but the experience is just as important as the paycheck. Experience + Personal Intelligence + Recommendations + Your Logic and Problem Solving skills = $$$$$$$

Just don't even bother naming your scattergun then.

d-d-doushio

I'm not the one doing the name calling here.

Prime example.

That was really good. Wish more tf2 videos were like this.

Y'know, you guys are getting all disgusted and offended by these autistic retards but reading some of the posts you guys make and listening in on some of the streams, some of you act just like these cunts right down to the unfunny EPIC MEEMAYS.

http://puu.sh/1brlD

http://puu.sh/1brkx

This guy's justification for his belief is that it keeps the playing field "even". As bad as this place can get, I look at these images to remind myself that yes, it CAN get worse.

Removing the question mark is fine. I remember playing the Alpha and then reading the forums. Some incredibly vocal cunt actually thought that being able to change your graphics settings was cheating and that people who didn't have "his setup" just shouldn't play the game.