1. Highlander is not 6v6 so folks should not attempt to apply the same logic they use in designing 6s rules to highlander. In 6s only 4-5 classes are utilized most of the time (2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 demo, 1 medic, maybe a pyro or engineer or sniper for a few seconds on lasts, rinse, repeat). As such by definition of highlander all classes need to be viable. Wrangler is a powerful addition to the engineer that makes the class quite useful in comparison to when it was not in the game.
2. Top teams in highlander have ZERO problems taking down a wrangled gun. If you do, you need to try a new strategy.
3. Wrangled guns INCREASE the need for teamwork from the opposing team because in order to take them down quickly you need to coordinate attacks from multiple classes. If you think a wrangled gun is OP try coordinating a DH soldier, demo spam, AND a spy sap. Shit melts like butter.
4. It's been debated about 4 times already and most of the league wants it in and it's not going anywhere.
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=estgiicATLc

And furthermore, it is my opinion (not UGC's) that the result of the HUGE number of bans and class restrictions in CEVO/ESEA have hampered growth of 6v6 over the years. 6v6 is quite small in comparison to highlander and pub TF2 in general. I feel this is because it is DRASTICALLY different than stock TF2. It's incredibly difficult to get public players interested in 6s because 1) they probably can't play the class they love and 2) they definitely can't use majority of the weapons they like. Maybe that's one of the reasons ESEA has 68 teams this season instead of the 117 it had last season. People might be getting bored playing the same game they bought in 2007.

Now, I can't wait to read mustard's epic paragraphs dissecting my points and the instant 4+ frags I get from my fan club.

Love, Inf.

This coming from the guy who voted for ctf_mach4 for Season 8 =] <3

Mustard: Not sure what to say to you man. You have an opinion and form your arguments around it and stick to your guns which I respect. One thing that shows me you have little understanding of detecting cheaters though is because you feel we should release our evidence which will in turn show our methods. There are methods out there to detect cheaters a lot of people do not know about and releasing this would be detrimental. I've asked you multiple times why Marisa is not sending you his POV demo to review. All the evidence gathered was from that so why don't you review it and make your own judgement? Oh wait you can't because its "lost" just like those season 3 POV demos were. All I can say is I disagree with your logic and could exchange paragraph after paragraph with you but there really isn't a point.

Marisa: The thread was not deleted, but moved to the leaders forum as a case study about the difficulty detecting cheaters in TF2. The person using the cheat was using an OBVIOUS wallhack. This was made even clearer for folks after using wireframes. While not incredibly scientific, it shows a lot of people do not know what to look for in cheat detection.

Harbleu: Not much to say to you either. You are always piping in after your buddy marisa makes a post or this cheating thing comes up. Maybe you guys are friends or something.. wait you are so how are you unbiased? And by "everyone" you mean 3-5 people or what?

My last post on this topic. The past aside, I am looking forward to you all playing in UGC (including a cheat free marisa) and hope you enjoy this season.

Yes.

Any other questions or concerns you would like to discuss?

On one hand you say there are a handful of disgruntled players and then now whenever someone poses a question to us it "impact's the entire UGC community". Overblown to say the least.

Thanks for the advice eXtine.

Like ive said many times before, the accused is welcome to provide their POV demo to you or anyone else who ask and then you can make your own judgement.

Most of the things we do are transparent but disputes of any kind are always handled behind closed doors. It's just the way we do things and have always done things. We run the league and have every right to keep certain things in confidence between the admin team.

The match was ExJedi vs hl.tf2. The leader of ExJedi at the time was Hein, who is also an admin. He brought forth the dispute just as any other team leader does in these cases and after that had zero involvement with the rest of the cheating dispute. He did not vote on the final decision or try and sway any of us. We are very conscious of this.

I am not going to list the members of our anti cheat team because quite frankly, we all get trolled/flammed enough and I am not going to throw names out there for people to be harassed.

We run an online gaming league for fun. We are not doing this for fame, glory, or money its just something we enjoy doing because we love TF2 and the community. I am not sure what it takes for you to trust us. All I can tell you is we have an incredibly caring, professional, and trustworthy admin team that I am proud to be a part of. Despite what some on here think, we honestly do not attempt to screw anyone over individually or try and create scandals and corruption. Just think about this.. we've probably had 30 trolls/haters attack us in the past 2 years alone and that number is being conservative. IF we were so corrupt as some accuse, and ban people we simply don't like, wouldn't there be more bans? We have like 2. It just doesn't add up. We just do not operate that way.

As far as owing to our community.. I take questions/concerns all the time privately. If mustard, you or anyone else has questions he is welcome to add me and we can discuss them. But just become one or two people ask about a cheating dispute doesn't mean our entire 5,000 player community is in an uproar. It's sorta taking things out of context a little bit don't you think?

Any admin who is directly involved in a dispute of any kind recluses themself from the dispute decision process which is what happened in this instance. Most of our admins have great relationships with all of our teams so its quite ridiculous to say "oh, that admin is friends with X who was beat by this person's team so they are biased".

It is and has been our policy for 10 years not to release any evidence used in hacking disputes. All it does is give hackers more ways to go around our cheat detection methods as well as become fodder for trolls and long flaming posts. If you want to look over the demo yourself, feel free to ask the accused for their demo. Wait.. that one was lost too huh? Jeeze what a coincidence. If you want to debate this any further please speak with the league owner, Fornaught as this is and has been his policy since the early TFC days.

And quite frankly mustard, we don't owe you any explanation whatsoever. First, you are rude to our admins which makes me forget you exist. Second, who are you to challenge us, volunteer league admins, about our experience and qualifications? We all volunteer our personal time to do as much as we can for the league. If you don't like what we do then don't play there, simple as that.

Completely inaccurate. In season 3, Marisa was accused of cheating and we requested his POV demos. Conveniently, he was "kicked out of his house" once we started asking for them and was unable to provide any POV's. This caused some level of punishment and put on our "watch" list. I can't remember specifically what was done because I wasn barely active/involved with UGC at the time. Then, in season's 5 + 6 we had requested and received several POV demos throughout season and found obvious instances of hacking in the ExJedi vs hl.tf2 game and he was banned accordingly. Hopefully Marisa starts off season 8 without using hacks and plays straight up.

We don't ban people because we do not like them. It just doesn't work that way, I'm sorry to disappoint all you conspiracy theorists. We barely have enough time to get normal league duties finished let alone set up some grand corruption scandal. We really don't care about the trolls as much as you think we do.

I also find it somewhat comical how this is brought up in an completely unrelated thread. A lot of people complained about the invite limit and the second we fix it people start complaining about something else. Get's old.

http://www.ugcleague.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11285

Vilepickle, the author of canalzone has been hard at work taking feedback from ugc players to improve upon his map and the domination game mode. Hes made a lot of changes I think many will like. If you hated canalzone at least give it a try sometime this season as we will be organizing a few testing sessions with his latest version.

May your wish be granted..

http://www.ugcleague.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12017

http://www.ugcleague.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12017