http://www.ugcleague.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?57-6v6-Scrims

mini is the best

we just took a round

watch your fucking step, "high" open teams

less spam?

black box exists to spam

you get 15 health from doing 20 damage across the map

less clip doesn't matter if you're not in a fight

you have more mobility since you can heal 80% of a jump w/ 1 rocket w/o packs or taking heals

but yeah your bombs are shitty

bullshit headshots

that double solly kill @ 3:03 and that sniper 6k

holy fuuuck

tf2center is great except for all the cac ham scouts and phlog pyros

you will not be able to hit 2 long ranged flares on any player who is not afk or walking in a straight line

minigun has like 4 times flamethrower dps, and much larger range. slow movement doesn't matter when you're holding last. pyro has no advanced mobility and similar dps to pretty much every other class, on a shittier weapon (projectile tracking is very difficult to get a high accuracy on), unless you meant he axtinguisher, which literally requires point blank.

so can soldiers and demos and heavies except they're not completely neutered by mini-sentries and big sentries and other heavies and other pyros and can kill things without getting close to them

pyro isn't the best class at short range

it's like

the fourth best after soldier heavy scout (outclassing such cqc terrors as sniper, spy, and medic)

it's "op" in pubs because it's relatively easy for shit players to flamethrower people walking in straight lines and hold down m2 against shit soldiers

and also inflate the score with extinguish points that are literally worthless

EDIT: oh yeah the phlog also wrecks bad pubs pretty hard

untrue

you could also buff the non-degreaser flamethrowers' attacking power to make them less reliant on switching weapons

making everything the degreaser is ONE solution to balance the shitty primaries, but it's not the only solution

and it's a really boring solution imo

shotgun does 80-90 at close range (aka the range where you could set shit on fire) and flare gun is difficult to hit with outside of that range because it is not hitscan

also fire rate of shotgun is way higher

flare gun isn't difficult to get crits with but it's definitely harder to get crits with (aka do a significant amount of damage with) than it is to click on someone at any range with the shotgun and do a more reliable and probably equivalent dps

also the axtinguisher is fine

it's basically only to kill distracted and/or retarded heavies and soldiers who have no rockets loaded

pyro is slow and fairly worthless outside of flamethrower range, which makes it incredibly difficult to close with targets

getting in point blank range (which is SIGNIFICANTLY closer than flamethrower / airblast range) with classes who have rampup and can wreck you and not being able to switch weapons (to defend yourself with airblast) for 1.2ish seconds (with degreaser) or whatever seconds leaves you incredibly open for pretty much every class to just wreck you, and with the degreaser it's pretty much always safer to just flame + secondary combo them, which gives a pretty much equivalent dps (especially considering 195 is overkill in a lot of situations)

also axtinguisher means no powerjack which means you're slow as fuck when going ANYWHERE (and people want to nerf the uberstalling power of airblast so it needs a niche as a not-annoying anti-soldier alternative to roamer/scout as a flanking class)

EDIT: degreaser not being able to deal minicrits sounds fine to me, but honestly it's not enough to get anyone to switch to stock flamethrower on its own, switch speed is WAY too good

Objection.

[Mini]crits are not inherently bad. The Kritzkrieg, for example, is universally loved as one of the best unlocks in the game.

However, many weapons that have [mini]crits are broken, because either the [mini]crit is too easy to get, or a [mini]crit does too much damage.

The Reserve Shooter, for example, is dumb as fuck. Anything in the air (or on stairs, or underwater) takes a minicrit. And the Pyro can additionally force things into the air if they are close, with airblast. And a minicrit does 121, aka it 1shots scouts with 1 flamethrower particle, which is also dumb, and they can't avoid it because it's hitscan and airblast stalls all momentum.

So, the Reserve Shooter is broken both because the minicrits are easy to get and because the minicrits are too powerful.

The Flare Gun seems just as easy to get crits. Hit something with your primary and they will take crits. But it's not. For one, it's a projectile, a projectile without any splash. This means that it is much less reliable, because people can move out of the way. In addition, there are many more situations where your target would be in the air than on fire. Scouts jumping to dodge explosions, explosive jumping, surfing explosives, and random mashing of the space bar to dodge whatever (on top of aforementioned stairs and underwater situations). If you want to crit with the Flare Gun, you need to either get into flamethrower range, and be unable to hurt them UNTIL you get into flamethrower range (because you have no shotgun and 30 damage flares are weak), or hit two flares in a row, which is incredibly difficult outside of flamethrower range because they are projectiles and have no splash.

Wall of text. The point is that Flare Gun crits are much more difficult than Reserve Shooter minicrits to attain. They'll be even harder if we, like everyone seems to want, remove the completely momentum stalling mechanic of airblast, which would allow enemies to, even in close range, airstrafe out of the predictable airblast trajectory and avoid a flare (which is not hitscan).

The Flare Gun isn't as powerful as the Reserve Shooter, either. It fires incredibly slowly and does only 90 damage, which means that you need to soften even light classes before "OHKOing" with the crit flare. This may seem insignificant, but while it's very easy to set things on fire with the flamethrower, it's difficult to actually aim the particles and lead them into a target (particularly a fast, double jumping target), and while airblast makes them easy to hit, there's a cooldown after the airblast which means you have to hope that the flare will kill them, otherwise they'll just meatshot you again and you die.

The Shotgun as of right now is balanced with the Flare Gun, because it's more reliable. Hitscan and faster firing speed lets you better hit faster moving targets (like standard 6s clases) and do more DPM at close range. The Flare Gun is good because of passive reload and the fact that you can deal 90 damage to targets who are escaping you, where Shotgun would only do 30 or 40. If you nerf Flare Gun's base power, it's just a shitty Detonator: it sets things on fire for 6 DPM (worthless) and it leaves the pyro with no effective attacking power beyond flamethrower range and no strong finisher to compensate for how garbage the flamethrower is at killing stuff.

disclaimer marma is invite and im in ugc steel so my opinion isn't really worth anything

yeah

airblast completely negates momentum (and it DOES prevent airstrafing initially), change that so it works like fan knockback (class mass / momentum is taken into account)

lower airblast fire rate unless you get a reflect to nerf pyros holding m2 like retards against ubered soldiers while not allowing soldiers to hold m2 like retards

then make the pyro less shit at fighting things (fthrower range buff / dmg increase / particle speed increase or movement speed buff, i feel like range would be best cuz limited range + lack of approach tools pigeonholes it into defensive / ambush roles, but movement speed works too and the others make it better at ambushing)

while you're at it fix the particle animation (does not accurately show particles) and random reflect trajectories, and revert rrj nerf

then make stock and backburner not downgrades somehow (oft-touted idea was halving the downtime between airblasting and being able to fire your flames, but not airblast, reducing reliance on switching weapons)

i feel like a spuffer again lol

Has your friend told you to play pokemon showdown?

This point value system is prettycool (kinda like the dark horse challenge) but really, almost every non-trash (farfetch'd) pokemon is viable in some tier or another, and gen 6 ou isn't very centralized, so I don't think it'll replace smogon tiers or anything.

hes a shrub