Am I reading this right? Are you telling me the game would be less valuable if it featured female robots instead of male ones?

No, help me out. I'm misunderstanding.

They shouldn't need to make it for guys. Guys should be okay with playing a video game with cute little female robots killing other females robots just as they should be okay with playing a video with cute male robots killing other male robots. There's literally no reason for people to be up in arms about this particular art direction.

You've completely misunderstood my post. I guess I might not have made it clear enough, but I was specifically referring to people being upset at the principle of her getting the job due to blatant nepotism, and acting like it's her fault. Yes, there's some foul play here. But she's not to blame for taking the job. The person who hired her is to blame for... doing exactly that. Hiring her when she didn't deserve the position.

It's cool to think her art blows and she sucks as a PR, but don't act like it's her fault for getting a free job.

btw she's not making a good game? She's not making anything. She's designing robots. Nothing she does will affect the game's actual mechanics. I guess you're allowed to complain about an art direction that leans towards a better representation of females, but don't act like she's ruining the game or something.

@hivemind: sorry for posting I guess? Apparently I hit some kind of opinion quota and now I'm not allowed to think and post things I think on an internet message board without warranting a thread lock.

I'm not stubborn; I'm exasperated. I literally just directly contradicted your argument and now you're changing it, and asking me to do something impossible.

Look, this was your original argument: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1."

Not: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in the megaman game market by at least 100-1."

That wasn't your argument because it's stupid and niche and doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to fetch you a nonexistent study on the demographic of people who play Mega Man. Fact is, you pulled a number (at least 100-1) out of your ass, and I gave an actual statistic. Now you're backpedaling and asking me to do something impossible. I'm not going to continue arguing under those circumstances.

Wowza, you're stubborn. I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore.

That's understandable. Absolutely understandable. But when blame is pinned on Dina for taking the job as opposed to whoever hired her for putting an unqualified individual on a team of art designers and giving her the position of a PR manager (of which she hasn't done a great job as), then it's easy to see that the misplaced blame is a result of either subconscious misogyny or just plain stupidity.

Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.

Nope, there's just this weird stigma against feminism on gaming-oriented parts of the internet. Lots of misinformation and stubbornness.

You don't see a problem with a guy lead because you're a male talking about an industry dominated by males. It's pretty easy to say something like that when you're in the vocal majority.

... This is nowhere close to an acceptable analogy. The female market for video games is under-represented. The male market for Victoria's Secret is... just nonexistent. Men don't want male representation in Victoria's Secret because they don't care about Victoria's Secret, or shop at Victoria's Secret. Women want more representation in games because it's not gender specific, like Victoria's Secret. It's just predominantly oriented towards males, and nothing is stopping us from being able to change that. Victoria's Secret isn't predominantly oriented towards females; it is specifically for females, or those who identify as females.

"She leaves out key important games and characters that show failings in what she is trying to say. So I cannot back someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence that does not support their own argument."

Can you give some examples?

"So my post holds no weight now?"

No, it means it holds just as much weight as every other post in this thread. Your gender doesn't make your opinion any more important than anybody else's, even regarding this subject matter.

"It's not because she is a woman. It's because of what she wants to do to the game."

And that's horrible! That's a horrible thing. If people are outraged because a single art designer wants women to be a little better represented in a game, then that's disgusting to hear.

"If she wanted the players to be able to choose between male or female at the beginning of the game, fine. But from what is being presented, she wants it to be an exclusive female lead."

Some choice would be great. But I see nothing wrong with an exclusive female lead since most games have male exclusive leads.

1) I don't see why you feel the need to add "as a woman" to the beginning of your post. Your opinion matters as much as anybody else's and gender has no bearing on that.

2) I'm not sure how Sarkeesian is an extreme feminist. Have you watched her videos? They are extremely well researched,very true, and, most importantly, very mild. It's not like she's calling for girls who play games to rise up against a patriarchy. She just points out that gender roles are extremely evident in video games and it holds our medium back from being legitimate when AAA titles can't deliver a single story that isn't based around gender roles in both men and women.

Unfortunately they ultimately don't really accomplish much, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, they're well done videos.

3) "I've been playing video games for years and I could honestly care less about strong female leads in a video game, so long as it has a great story, and the game play is good."

The fact that you're a girl who plays games who doesn't care about strong female leads doesn't mean no girls who play games don't want strong female leads, and it doesn't mean it's wrong if they do want strong female leads. I don't see why you identify as a girl other than to try giving your post more weight than it deserves.

4) Finally, Might No. 9 is a SUCCESSOR to Megaman. It's not Megaman. It's pretty silly to point out that the title of the franchise that this IP isn't directly connected to has the word "Man" in it and thus cannot feature a female protagonist.

arguing tip #1: dropping "ad hominem" and "strawman" doesn't mean you're good at arguing

that said,

"If there is such a thing as "gender roles" the whole concept of feminism falls apart."

ok so you're saying the concept of feminism (which is to seek equality by abolishing gender roles for both men and women) falls apart when you acknowledge the existence of gender roles. ok.

"You can't suggest that there are gender roles and then in the same breathe go 'women are equal to men, but the implied roles of their gender are...'"

wait, what? no. what? no. jesus, no. what makes you think feminism is just saying "WOMEN ARE EQUAL TO MEN!" over and over again even though it's not true yet? feminism exists to reach a point where you can say women are equal to men in every way, and men are equal to women. this is done by doing away with gender roles.

read a book dude.

???

From my minimal research, egalitarianism refers to equal rights for all people. What I described was equal rights for all genders through the process of eliminating undesirable (and all) gender roles. That's feminism. Radical feminism, from my reading, is what identifies and seeks to deconstruct the patriarchy.

Do you think you can cite some of the articles you've read?

e: also I couldn't help but notice that you're definition of feminism is almost word-for-word pulled form the wikipedia article on RADICAL feminism (which has never been about equality). ???

whoops, am i posting on reddit now? sorry, i'll pack up my bags.

naw but seriously

"so they've created this idea that woman are seen as non-equals to men."

are you fucking kidding me lol. did you just imply that gender inequality is made-up.

e: i'm baffled. every time i re-read this it gets even stupider. all feminists are insecure and thus created the very concept of gender inequality. holy fucking shit.

since when are we talking about radical feminism? this is about an art designer who wants more female representation in a video game.