366 posts in and somebody finally offers a solution to the problem. Hopefully warnings would be issued first and THEN bans would follow.

remember when we could all act like decent human beings and agree racism/sexism/transphobia is bad

yeah me neither

I don't want to sponsor an event where scumbag pieces of shit are allowed to participate and earn money from my contribution. So I won't. And that's my first amendment right, no?

It's not about women. It's not about transgender people. It's not about minorities. It's about not being a low, disgusting example of a human being. I don't care what the target of your harassment is, I won't in any way enable it.

I know the players probably won't care about a lack of sponsorships but the event organizers seeking sponsorships will. And we won't sponsor an event that doesn't have a code of conduct for participating players.

If any league admins or event organizers are reading this take it as a prerequisite for contacting us for sponsorships. It'll be my first question.

https://twitter.com/ChampGG_/status/1026622756480327680

Pugchamp with a step in the right direction, scaling punishment for harassment and intolerance, as well as reserving the right to ban for off site conduct.

TF2CL as well
https://twitter.com/TF2League/status/1026618983317950464

The people who have been driven away from this community by toxic people who take their insecurities out on others are some of the coolest people with the most to offer I've ever met.

It's not worth defending them. Because all you'll be left with is people like them. People whose every action and word oozes toxicity.

That's not a community I want to be involved with.

tell the people here about your experiences in dealing with /tf2g/ (not being denigrating, geniunely curious because all i know is you organised raffels on there and drama happened for some reason)

This is fair, I did assume. Point taken. Thank you.

The competitive tf2 community is small. And I think that because it is so small that we see horrible people who spout all this racism and bigotry more often and more clearly. I think its disgusting that these people feel they have any reason to say this kind of stuff and I think its even worse that they could get away with it. I'm glad that the community is bringing these issues up so that we can fix them before they get any worse.

I can't go a single Twitch stream or Reddit post without someone bringing up "footrest" in an attempt to hurt me.

Sad thing is, it only hurts me because I'm protective of the people who were actually involved in that incident.

I'd rather take it than have it be directed towards them though.

The idea that some of the best TF2 players out there, who are extremely gifted at making the sickest plays and the craziest airshots, are also capable of justifying their shitty behavior with whataboutism, the First Amendment, the status quo, or other logical fallacies.

Personally attacking people in and out of game is bad. No buts; ifs; what abouts; and, for fucks sake, denying someone attacked another when their reply was three words that cannot be taken as anything but insults to three separate aspects of their character.

Every time this shit happens the TF2 community acts the same and nothing ever gets better.

I swear to god this is the same shit as when Tagg got harassed out.

This games full of pieces of shit. Homophobia, Transphobia, Racism, Harassment are not acceptable. Degu and pred SHOULD be banned. Anyone defending these people clearly cares more about saying fucking slurs than actually making sure people can be safe in this environment.

Take a fucking look at yourselves you pieces of shit.

legit honest question, what does someone calling you "footrest" mean?

I guess it's like when you say "people step on you"

idk if anyone has mentioned this, but the "grow a thicker skin" mentality is kind of bullshit. It puts the responsibility on the victim to not be abused as opposed to putting the responsibility on the abuser to not be an asshole. It'd be healthier for both the victim and abuser if we held people to a higher standard in general, and encourages people to grow past 8th grade edge humour.

Has nothing to do with me other than that I know the people involved in the event that is referred to as "footrest".

Basically just shaming people for being different. Typical for small people.

guys new hashtag #metf2 like #metoo you guys like?

god damn am i glad i never got involved with this end of the tf2 community, this degeneracy is the reason it's small

and in a year we'll see another thread with the same issue and familiar faces will pop in and give you the same wake up call and you'll just ignore it again

tf2 is dead and you killed it

i was talking about the childish bigots btw

Well to me personally it just depends on two things
Are you saying it with malicious intent?
Would you keep doing it if someone expressed it was making them uncomfortable?
If the answer is no to both then, in my eyes, its fine

Also THANK YOU to the likes of Geel and Champgg among others for stepping up :D
After the first couple of posts that made it seem people were actually gonna defend this type of shitty behaviour im glad this thread turned around

These threads pop up from time to time but it's pretty cool to see people actually taking action, as in pugchamp and tfcl.

Underrated comment

It's vital people who harass based on someone's identity (which is not the same as "saying mean things" or shittalk), finally face the consequences, whether that is in the form of warnings, bans, and/or being known by the community not as the pocket for that team, but as the degenerate who called someone a nigger, trannie, etc. Doing so would tell not only tell the harasser they need to look in the mirror and think about how they view other people, but it was tell the same to anyone who is complicit, thinks harassment is okay or thinks harassment not a big deal.

We can stop the cycle of valuable people leaving silently. We can stop the cycle of someone coming out about their experiences with harassment, followed by posts on twitter and a thread(s) on tftv being made, then nothing gets done to stop that behavior because the fire of the debate dies down or gets smothered because of how toxic it is. We've just decided not to take action because people have decided the relatively small cost of toxic players in a league is worth more than the human dignity of others.

Right as I was about to post this, I noticed that champ.gg and geel have spoken and are willing to take action. I'm optimistic that this could be the start of something good, possibly great.

Edit: Thank you uberchain for having the courage to speak up about this and reigniting the debate

the jump community is just as bad as the comp community in this regard, read hellbent's post. on the flip side, both have really cool people too.

that is true yes, though we have a lot less impact on the general opinion of team fortress 2. also i'm falling out of the jump community for these same reasons so that's fun

I'm surprised that this has reached a head. I had a hard recoil from being involved in financially supporting the tf2 community after the i55 situation. I never publicly told what happened, but it seems like the timing is appropriate.

An invite player would stream tf2 with me as his only viewer. One evening, he was pugging and was in mumble with others. While waiting for a game, Showstopper plays a racist video of Obama. Showstopper then proceeds to comment on the video and repeatedly call Obama a nigger. At some point, Ash chimes in with "I love how racist you are! I fucking hate niggers too!" This went on for a time, but that assertion stuck with me.

At the announcement of i55, I donated ~$600 to Ascent and ~$1,300 to my then favorite team Froyotech. My plan was to foot the entire bill to send Froyo to LAN as a surprise. Before realizing this, Froyotech decided to pick up Ash to plug a hole in their roster. There was no way I was going to pay for a self proclaimed racist to go on vacation on my dime to play video games. After I asked for a refund of my donation, Ash was encouraged to write an apology letter to change my mind. While in the process of writing the letter, he, showstopper, and others were in mumble resentfully referring to me as a nigger.

In 2 years I donated over $20K to streamers and the tf2 community. That all came to a screeching halt and so did my enjoyment of spectating competitive tf2 as an esport. The fallout strained and in some cases ended the relationships I had with members of the community. Here's to hoping the community removes the cancerous elements for the sake of its own health.

twitter

We're happy to see other TF2 Leagues/Orgs join into the idea that has been at the very core of RGL. It's literally the first thing we talk about in our Mission Statement as a league. We like to say having a "healthy balanced between competition and community." And you cannot have a healthy community if you allow toxic voices into them.

The fact that this, clear black and white situation, was seen as debatable and many were calling for no action to be taken from organizations, is disappointing, to say the least. Action must be taken and people must be held accountable for their hate-filled words.

We stand with the many and will not allow the few ugliest and, often, loudest voices to dictate how our community sounds. We will stand together with the good voices and build a great balance between competition and community.

--
And for people calling for warnings, while yes warnings can be good and the correct choice in some situation. If you need a warning to not say blatantly racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic words... A warning isn't going to stop you. Just being a decent human being with empathy towards others should stop those words from coming out of your mouth.

Locking this thread would be a major disservice to uberchain, and would be essentially giving power to toxicity by halting conversation on it. The longer this thread remains open and active, the more discussion takes place, ideas on how to procede like truktruk's come up, and most importantly, the community's worst fuckwits rear their heads so we know who is not worthy of being in our teams, in our leagues or on our screens.

Do not lock this thread, despite how toxic it is.

As far as I know there are no plans to lock it, but it will be monitored.

This is a discussion that has come up time and time again, and it's come to the point where there needs to be change. And I can tell you, behind the scenes change is happening.

I just wanted to share my thought on why the "grow a thicker skin" is such a bad argument and a few other thoughts

Back in my elementary, middle school, and beginning high school years I was constantly harassed and exiled by many people cause of my mental disability and Hispanic background (majority of people came from a rural background, predominantly white)

I did try to "grow a ticker skin" at first, and that was not what helped me through those harsh years. What little help I got with my family loving me despite never telling them my problems helped my issues.

But funny enough when things did get better, I grew a thicker skin, And nothing phased me

But when I saw people experience abuse like I went through I would just not even interfere cause I thought hey if I was able to overcome my troubles that person can to. How ironic of me to not help someone when I was blessed enough to receive it in the first place

And that is probably my biggest gripe about why the thicker skin is such a bad idea, cause It desensitizes you and pushes away the true way of helping someone going through abuse, which is simply love and care...
While I do agree you should have strength in how people perceive you and you should not bow down and submit to attacks laid down upon you. We cannot be desensitized to the pain that many unfortunate people endure everyday. YOU DO NOT HEAL WOUNDS BY SIMPLY TELLING YOURSELF THAT THEY WILL STOP BLEEDING EVENTUALLY. HEALING SOLVES ONES WOUNDS AND SCARS.
Why must we become so cold to each other in a world full of other perils and trials... I know there is love in this community, I always feel it when I see what this community has done. This community has done so much for me and for others. Yet there is a lack of love for ourselves. We need to love ourselves more if we truly want to be a great community

EDIT: Don't lock this thread, honestly it's good for these issues to be focused upon and talked about
Double Edit: Formatted shit better and fixed my horrendous edit line

Watches Ice Poseidon (community that was formed by racist memes on twitch), on team called the bin black. Past alias "bin.NGR degu" didn't expect any less.