Huawei has its own silicon division and is perfectly capable of designing its own CPUs. This will however be a setback in western markets.

This whole thing is just nonsense https://youtu.be/IfxfdHJ3k9Y
Keep in mind this idiocy is coming from the same country responsible for Stuxnet.

Why do you talk specifically about Stuxnet regarding this problem? It is not the only thing the US has done to keep some kind of hegemony/spying advantage. What do you think is going to happen now?

For those not wanting to watch 17 mins of video, this comment resumes it :

https://i.imgur.com/R9Jw8ry.png

It is a well known and clearcut case of a major US IT company cooperating with and compromising its hardware at the behest of the US government for spying and sabotage purposes.

If you somehow think ARM are part of the good guys, they're the kind of company to start smearing campains on open source ISAs because it was making buzz.

EDIT: It'd be sick and hilarious for Huawei to start producing RISC-V CPUs if it comes down to it

China is an authoritarian government that closely monitors all of it's citizens and there's a lot of evidence to suggest they kill political dissidents. Major Chinese companies like Hauwei are not entirely separate from the government that's why they're given corporate tax rates so low. China has been proven to have stolen intellectual property (tech, software etc) in the past, even with the source code showing they are not spying, the people who designed the software and hardware should have an easier time bypassing there own security measures than that of a third party.
Even if they're were no reason to believe Huawei was capable of spying or linked to the Chinese government I still think the ban would make sense. The current Chinese regime holds beliefs and values that are antithetical to that of western society, so even if it were a move just to harm the Chinese economy, but there'd have to be some cost benefit analysis of the gain from hurting a authoritarian government and the loss of removing there beneficial product from the market.

The irony being is you could say the exact same shit about the US govt...

At the end of the day its pretty fucking stupid and hypocritical, but when has the US ever actually held itself to the same standards it expects from the rest of the world? This is not thing new and it is just the US seeing itself starting to slide from the sole world power and they are super afraid of it and trying to stop it, not that this will considering the actual market share huawei has worldwide. The US might think they will "win" in the short term from stuff like this, but 25 years out they are already fucked.

Your gonna have to be more specific as to what you mean...

Replace the word China with United States and 95% of your comment would remain true.

The USA is a authoritarian government with beliefs antithetical to itself, that openly controls it's tech corporations and kills political dissidents? I'm sorry I guess I'm not up to date on all the spiciest of conspiracy theories.

No one.
Remember the last trade war?

The instruction set is not a problem. That's all ARM UK, Huawei already got a license for it and worst case they don't really care. If the US ban all imports by Huawei what are they going to do if Huawei continues to use chips with ARM CPUs made by HiSilicon (owned by Huawei, located in China) manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan, which the the US claims doesn't actually exist. How would they stop them?

Also keep in mind that is going to be mostly about bureaucracy. 2 out of ARMs 3 design teams are in Europe. So Cortex-A76 = bad, designed in Austin, but they can't stop it because HiSilicon is already manufacturing that. A77 or whatever the next one will be called is probably a Sophia (France) design again so Trump can't do jack shit. A55 and so on are all Cambridge so again ARM can do whatever they want.

They are complying now to not anger the orange and will slowly figure out what they're allowed to export, whether or not giving Huawei a manual written by someone in Texas is a threat to national security and if so have someone from Cambridge rewrite it.

There are some other chips that Huawei/HiSilicon do physically buy from US companies but nothing completely irreplacable. ARM is the least of their worries because they are not a US company and don't need to keep up continous supply of physical chips.

Android isn't ideal because their own OS isn't quite where they want it to be or they wouldn't switched already, but again not irreplacable.

tl;dr
Huawei can keep making smartphones no matter what Trump comes up with.
The US is 15% or something like that of global smartphones sales at this point and almost half of that is Apple (compared to <20% globally) so Huawei isn't terribly hurt by losing that market.

#2
Not really, they still license ARM's designs. But they can keep using and tweaking what they've already got or get non-US designs from ARM.
The US is not the only western market and no other western market has banned Huawei yet. It's a setback in the US and only the US for now.

#5
Not happening.
Also fuck RISC-V for various reasons.

this is a russian plot to sow confusion and hate in the NA tf2 scene so shadowburn can come back and rule us all

I mean its more that the tech companies control the government, but yeah the current US is pretty antithetical to what the classic american dream and society is and the current president has called for his opponents to be locked up and for the press to be silenced. Iduno, I just find it funny that you can throw shade at China for being this boogeyman without honestly looking at the current state of the US because like it or not they are extremely close, especially on a geopolitical level.

I'm sorry I wasn't aware the USA is currently detaining Muslims and putting them in "re-education camps" (what concentration camps started out being called btw) and being accused of torturing the inhabitants. I'm sorry I wasn't aware the USA has been under investigation for killing political dissidents and harvesting there organs since 2007 and has had scientific research on organ transplants thrown out because it was impossible for them to have enough donors to carry out this research. I'm sorry I wasn't aware that the USA was building artificial military islands in the Japanese sea and flying military jets over Taiwan because they don't believe it to be a legitimate foreign nation.

Trying to equate Trump saying Hilary should be locked up, a single person who many intelligence officials have come forward and said that anyone else in that position would have spend life in prison for a fraction of what she did, with Chinese politicians actually killing there opponents/activists.
And on the press this is incomparable to China who has state-run media. When Trump calls for a expansion of liable laws on a press who has made a habit in the past few years of breaking stories before anything is actually confirmed, it is not the same as calling for the press to be silenced.

With the american dream and society thing idk what your on about and tbh it would be exhausting and pointless to even get into it.
In terms of geopolitics the USA and China do have the same goal in mind, but the way they go about it and the world they envision is totally different.

You probably shouldn't use Taiwan as an example because the USA do not recognize it officially.
They're not trying to annex it, but officially they very much recognize the PRC and the PRC only, which means that on paper the USA actually agree that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
The USA effectively recognized that the PRC owns Taiwan but throws a fit any time they suggest that they might want to send some armed bois to actually take that island. No one forced them to recognize the PRC instead of the ROC in 1979 except the sweet sweet siren call of money, so there's no moral high ground to be had for them in this issue.

The artificial islands are in the South China Sea (which is quite a ways from the Sea of Japan) and a different issue.

Compared to what it could be the USA is quite a shit show right now and gets no brownie points for not being as bad as Russia or China. They don't get any points for being better than North Korea either.
Technically torturing and killing your own citizens is also less legally questionable than doing it with foreign citizens. Still morally and ethically wrong, but legal if you make it legal. Not any better than the USA going god knows where doing god knows what waving their self-written "permission to do whatever the fuck I want" but arguably not any worse.

don't be so quick to think USA can't coerce European Union into doing what they want (ex : Alstom, coercing ARM, T-Mobile vs Huawei, etc). From what I understood this ARM decision has nothing to do with the USA based ARM design office, but is relative to the whole company.

What trade war are you talking about?

@Screwball : yes I see what you mean, it's kind of obvious that USA does shady shit. At this point I think everyone here knows it. Which makes Nub_Danish comments about "big bad chinese dictatorship" a bit laughable.

You could possibly argue that China and USA's worldviews are similar, even though I think they are drastically different, but the state of the governments of China and USA are radically different regardless of whether or not you think USA is a joke right now.

As someone who has lived in both countries and have talked to my relatives that live in China and my relatives that have immigrated to the US from China and have put some research into the matter, China is magnitudes more corrupt with a system that is infinitely more broken and harmful to its citizens than the United States. Yes, you may think that America is a complete joke and in utter ruin right now, but comparing the two is basically making a mountain out of a molehill. If you want specifics I can provide them.

In response to the post, I do think Huawei will be fine.

None of these are examples of the USA coercing the EU though?
Not sure what you mean with Alstom.
ARM is refering to this one? What does the EU have to do with it?
T-Mobile vs Huawei? Where's the EU involved?

The last time the USA tried was vs Japan and that didn't go to well but pick any example. This isn't zero-sum mercantilism.

the proletariat will rise

guys dont forget to delete your comments on here after the discussion is over, you dont want to lose government points after the chinese overtake western civilization in 25years

shit i shoulda paid attention in chinese school when my mom made me go as a kid

Also @setsul what are your qualms with risc-v? I worked with it in a class recently and I thought its design made a decent amount of sense

Of course, it's not terrible, but the fanatical RISC purists pushed through some weird stuff.
E.g. no adressing modes and no predication. For both it's obvious that the real reason is ideological but officially they argue that compilers will be confused by too many choices (really?) and that the hardware can just take care of it for free (which is horribly wrong). The end result is that
1. They needlessly increased the code size, while still arguing that RISC-V is denser than anything else, which is only true if you compare compressed/variable length instructions, which the RISC purists don't really want to implement because VLE is evil and not RISC, and ignore the fact that other VLEs are even denser THUMB(2) and x86 included. Hell even M68K and VAX are denser. So it's denser than MIPS but that's about it all because of some fanatics stuck in the 80s. That's disappointing.
2. They don't have predication which is extremely useful in dealing with unpredictable branches, even more so in microcontrollers with not as sophisticated branch predictors (but they argue they'd have to choose between predication and branch prediction, which is complete BS, so only branch prediction is the better choice), and is also the least costly mitigation for various Spectre-style vulnerabilities. You planned on running JavaScript on a RISC-V CPU? Well tough shit, that's going to cost you.

If they somehow fuck up vector/packed SIMD instructions as well it'll be a lot less useful than it could've been. At that point you might as well use MIPS (open source now), which is actually finished and works, including some unimportant things like interrupts, at the cost of oh no, slightly worse code density.
RISC-V was supposed to be "RISC done right" and the first open source architecture except in some regards they seem to not have learned from the last 20 years so it's just another RISC architecture like half a dozen others and because it's not actually finished it's not even the first open source ISA.

donald drumpf bad

This is technically off-topic but too good not to share.
On the topic of making China comply with Trump's demands:
"They have Walmarts firmly established in China. If a Walmart near you closed up shop, how would your neighbors react?"
Ladies and Gentlemen, we've found the winning strategy. This is the 300 IQ move that Trump needs to end this. Just take their Walmarts. Xi Jinping will cave within seconds.

Alstom is/has been sold to foreign private interests recently, and was previously 100% french; ARM is a british company forced to comply to US sanctions against China if they do not want problems with doing business with America. It's a form of coercion and political influence to me. US decides who they penalize, everyone must comply.

T-Mobile case vs Huawei was told about in Screwball's source

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/lessons-america-japan-trade-war-1980s-24882

Is this article a decent source about the trade war you are talking about? I couldnt find much about it.

If you have reading material telling how broken and harmful the Chinese system is, i'll read them. Can't say that I know much about China except that its citizens got richer over the last 30 years and that anyone is fine as long as they dont criticize the government (and post pooh memes)

yall cant even grasp the twelve-dimensional theory of xi jinping thought

Alstom has been a publicly listed company since 1998 and since then has never been 100% french-owned? Or are we talking about a different Alstom? In what universe is acquisition of a publicly traded company coercing the EU?
I think you underestimate how complicated this is. They can penalize ARM for not complying but ARM will comply. The USA simply got no jurisdiction in the EU. Any company that's 100% outside of the US can just laugh in their face. There is no need to comply. What are the US going to do? Invade? ARM is partially in the US so they are vulnerable to fines and more drastic and more complicated things, but that doesn't mean they won't do everything that's legal to keep the business going.
Trump doesn't have a magic "because I say so button" that he can press and then everyone has to comply.
If you want a good example take a look at Panasonic. In the US they released a statement containing a monster of a sentence that begins with "We’ve stopped all business transactions with Huawei and its 68 group companies" and ends with "that are subject to the US government ban".
In China they've released a statement containing "Huawei has always been an important partner with Panasonic Corp. We will continue to sell commodities and provide service to our Chinese clients like Huawei, according to the law and regulations of the country and region which Panasonic Corp is located. By helping China, we will help our business grow in China too."
I think you know what that means. US import and export regulations apply in the US. Japanese import and export regulations apply in Japan. It would be absurd to apply the US tariffs on Chinese goods in Japan, right? Same thing witht the export ban. Of course the US could absolutely throw a fit, freeze Panasonic North America's assets and shoot themselves in the foot by hurting only their own economy but other than that their options are limited. They can fine Panasonic NA and any US court is going to overturn that instantly because Panasonic NA is not responsible for what's happening in Japan under the control of their parent company. They can try fining Panasonic for doing in Japan what's legal by Japanese law but I don't think that's going to go very far either.

Didn't watch the video and not planning to. tl;dr how was the EU coerced?

There's not much about the 80s trade war in that article? The short version is that the Japanese exported fewer cars to the US (good), built some factories in the US (good) but also bypassed the volume restrictions by sellling more expensive cars which had been a staple of the US manufacturers instead of just selling cheap cars which the US manufacturers had little to no stake in (bad). They exported fewer electronics to the US, but neither the US nor Japan bought more US electronics, instead it shifted to Korea and Taiwan (bad). Despite the stronger Yen the Japanese economy was virtually unaffected. They exported less into the US and more into SEA but nothing really changed. In fact it went too well. The lowered interest rates (to balance out the stronger Yen) which turned out not to be needed were never raised, leading to a bubble which fucked the Japanese economy and then kept it stagnat for almost a whole decade in the 90s.
End result: Not much changed for the US, Japan kind of fucked themselves by being too greedy or they'd still be at 50-60% of the US GDP.
Keep in mind that this trade war ended "amicably". Slightly negative effects for both (which Japan overcorrected) and that's it.
Keep in mind that Japan was massively depending on the US at the time. The share of exports to the US was significantly higher than China's is today and they absolutely needed the US protection against China and Russia. The US still did not get a great deal out of them.

unless of course he wants to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia

No, everyone wanted that except the public, but we don't ask those guys anymore on account of them having stupid ideas all the time like "actually trying to at least not help people violate human rights".

I'm misinformed about Alstom then. But I was under the impression that as it has some strategical value for the french country, buying a big share would be subject to some government probing and authorization, and is more complicated than 'here is your money i buy you'.
Following your Panasonic argument, if ARM GB is not forced to comply, why did ARM say they would stop trading with Huawei globally? What is in it for them?