Did you literally just say "we can't move to a different league because we'd have to move to a different league"?

im just saying "why doesnt everyone except banny (90% of whom dont even read these forums) just simultaneously move to UGC for no real reason other than "RGL bad" so that banny will be forced to follow" seems a bit naive.

the whole point is that people will tend to play in the league with the best top-level competition, so Froyo leading the community is much more likely than the league leading Froyo. i wish as much as anyone that we could migrate to a new league but its not as easy as just saying "hey guys lets all go play in UGC!"

its time...get Charlie CEVO on the horn

It literally is, you just need to actually do it instead of just suggesting it then folding a week later with the same old "it can't be helped because b4nny".

I've never seen a community wallow in self-pity for their perceived powerlessness for so long.

ok, i will go ahead and migrate 180 teams to a different league then. i will get right on that. i will make sure none of the teams stay in the league that they are mostly fine with playing in.

So what you're saying is you are too lazy to put effort into convincing people to move leagues, but not too lazy to complain about said league every month (sometimes twice a month) like clockwork.

I'm starting to understand the problem isn't really with the league but with the amount of people with victim mentality.

Must be an NA thing cuz I don't get that.

I’m not just trying to be pessimistic or obstructive here, I’m just frustrated with seeing the same “why don’t we just make our own league!” posts for almost a decade now. People who post on here would be surprised how many people are perfectly fine with RGL as a league (not even including HL players), and seem to think that all a league would need to do to oust RGL would just to be not RGL. ESEA got exposed for mining Bitcoin on all of your clients back in 2013 and you all still played there for 6+ years (over CEVO, for the record).

I dislike RGL from the ground up, as much as anyone, but does anyone have an actual plan to create and market a better league? The closest to a plan I’ve seen is “let’s hope people try UGC again”, when 1) that’s not a plan and 2) people had as many complaints with UGC as RGL if not more, back when it was popular.

I’m more than happy to help if anyone has any genuine plans for building a new league (though I’m not a very useful person), but none of these threads ever seem to result in any constructive progress towards a long term solution.

Cool that the euros are here to jerk themselves off by blaming individuals for effectively societal problems. Thought that was more of an American thing. I’ve never made one of these threads so ur clearly talking to an imaginary American guy u made up in your head anyway.

But to your point, what am I supposed to do? Message all 12 RGL players on my friends list “you should play UGC instead!” without any good reason? Who’s going to organize a larger effort here, and what’s it meant to be based on?

nobody told you to do it specifically but if people hate the league THIS MUCH, put some energy into fixing it (again not directed at you but at people playing in the league), instead of complaining about it just so you can farm upfrags on TFTV because all these threads come off as "WAAAA MOMMY GIVE ME MILK" until someone has had enough of all the bitching and does it for you.

Stop waiting for someone to fix your shit leagues and actually organize as a community and fix it yourselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs&ab_channel=rascrificerascrifice

I don’t do that, and that’s exactly what I’m advocating for, but based on more than a YouTube link to communism theme

i think we mostly agree here but as someone from a region that has had a decent league for like 50 seasons I hope you can understand that it can come across condescending and reductive to post “just fix the league lol” “just organize lol” type shit

We've had a decent league because we as a community stood against the admins when they were doing some ol bullshit like trying to not have a 6s season last fall.

Communism=bad is what they teach you at school but I meant the video as more of a "together you are strong" sorta vibe.

Take what you wish from it though, you are living in a free country.

i don’t mean to be instigative at all brother. i appreciate the encouragement and support. i just hope you understand it is easier to influence a well-implemented community league than it is to overthrow and replace an existing league that does not generally listen to its community.

My advice... get a discord server going and check how many people actually want this change, and how many are just bitching for the sake of bitching. If enough people care you'll figure out how to make RGL listen, or how to get a new league going.

You'd be suprised how much people with a common goal can do to instigate change. Especially in a situation where the League in question is as bad as everyone says.

Yes, that is kind of the point of moving to a community league.

You also make it sound like RGL is holding all players hostage at gunpoint and requires a well-planned and executed violent coup to remove.
It's like five guys who meet once every friday to discuss bans, they can't hurt you.

Sorry to bump once again, but uh its been a full week since Jacohi has submitted his ban appeal and he has not heard anything from any RGL admins, even though they said they would give a response on Friday. I would really like to play the season with my team leader :-)

This is the email response rgl sent me:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/827772977671962695/845854582830792714/unknown.png

"Regarding this case, there are important aspects that we would like to clarify. Here is how ghosting is defined under the RGL rules:

When evaluating these cases, the report team is evaluating the act that was committed. The player in question: spawned, moved forward, and then went into a spectator for 23-seconds. The player's defense is that it was an accident, but intent does not dictate the rule. Going into spec for even a moment can create an advantage for your team, such as gaining information on uber percentages, exact class information, and potential locations of players.

The question is the evaluation of whether or not a player should receive a personal ban for this or just team penalties. Ghosting, which is what this is, falls under our category of cheating, which raises it to a personal ban. Bug/exploits fall under a different set of rules and as such carries a different set of consequences. At most, these would result in a player warning and round/match overturn. These are the reasons why a suspension was issued and will be staying."

You know what, that's not that flawed of logic for me to be at least semi-content with that response. They did kinda give you why, the what, and how of your ban, sorry it had to end this way.

i.e. they had rules that stated what is considered cheating, even if I don't agree with it, so it makes sense why the ban was placed.

wait why doesnt rgl just prevent ppl from joining spectator team theres literally a cvar for it - mp_allowspectators

ah yes, arbritrary categories that lump hitting your spec bind in the same group as installing actual cheats mean that this decision is perfectly justified

bro these morons don't ban cheaters for multiple seasons and now going spec for 10 seconds is the same LMAO

isn't there a glitch where the game doesn't let you join a team and you have to type spectate in console to fix? wouldn't matter before the match but I guess if you crash and try to reconnect it could, but I'm not 100% on why this glitch occurs in the first place so maybe this is a non-issue.

wait a month

u ppl are so annoying

.

free reece

While bugs/exploits only get you a warning. I mean that could happen to anyone, unlike maliciously joining spec. That requires some preparation.

Wasn't there a league being made at the same time as RGL but RGL came out like a few weeks sooner so you picked it despite knowing the issues its gonna have?

Also, why do you have to leave this league in order to play another? Just make a new one (I say it like that but I understand making a league and running it is hard work) and play it at the same time. People used to play two leagues all the time. And if you like it and people are also playing it, stay with it and stop playing RGL? Doesn't have to be one or the other (unless your time is restricted)

yea but people's time is restricted lol
u could potentially do two RGL matches a week and two other_league matches a week, but rescheduling and conflicts would make it pretty awful, maybe if it was like UGC where there's only one match a week at first (iirc that was how 6s ugc was)

I know it is off topic of the OP but I think it was NACL with tsc, twiikuu, and maybe erynn was running/head of it if I remember correctly. As far as I remember b4nny showed interest in RGL over NACL and people followed suit with what he was doing, and the league never saw 1 season. In hindsight we should have looked at both leagues instead jumping ship immediately into the unknown. I don't think anyone could have seen it getting this bad though, it was hard to know at the time so many people in RGL were so inclined to keep hollow promises.

I did in fact warn you all that it would become a shitshow sooner or later. My specific example was the whitelist, not maps and general rules, but I think you can clearly tell that I was not having high hopes. Here's my exact words:

"No one could've seen this coming", says man who was warned but believed that surely it would never get that bad.