It's a brutally violent game. May as well use words to describe that. It's not a homophobic game.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but to say that people shouldn't be getting upset over "just words" is rather obtuse. I used to get a lot more upset at people using the word faggot, but I've found that the more time that passes between now and high school, the less it hurts. I can't deny or forget though, that for several years of my life that word was shouted it at me in the hallways, as I was being pushed around, out of cars as I was walking home, etc. And it's not just my pain I remember but the pain of everyone around me that suffered the same treatment. Even in TF2 people call me a faggot, I guess at least now it's done behind my back for the most part. And they do the same to people like m4risa and other LGBT. This is not ok.

Now I don't lose my shit when people say faggot, but I let them know that for me that word represents and can trigger a lot of pain and depression. And they generally stop using the word because friend's and most decent people are respectful of each other. To the other LGBT who say they aren't offended, that's great, but people shouldn't take that as meaning they speak for all of us on the matter. So I don't know, use the word or don't. I'm not going to go on a huge crusade just to satisfy my own feelings, but people should understand that to some of us that word really does cause people to feel pain, discomfort, and low self-esteem (this is applicable to other words like rape,nigger, etc.). And you might not know about it because not everyone is brave enough to speak up about it. That's the whole point of this day.

sorry my bad it's ghostayama you're right. won't happen again

This really is just about why I feel we should take another hard look at the consequences of our words.

I have a gay friend who said I can say faggot.

Just because you don't mean something to be offensive when you say it doesn't mean other people won't find it to be offensive. It might be "just the internet," but words still have meaning and it's possible you might hurt someones feelings. If you and your friends all use the word faggot and nobody gets offended by it that's great for you guys, but words don't lose their history and the pain that can be associated with the word just because you think no one should be offended by it.

I mean if it's accepted in your group of friends that you can say faggot, or retarded, or raped or nigger, that's fine for you guys. Personally, I would try and keep words like that out of streams, or whenever you're interacting with people in the community that you don't know, but that's just what I try to do.

There are two things that I'd like to address: the usage of crass language is not caused solely by "being on the internet." If you've ever been to an arcade, watched a fighting game stream, or been to a fighting game tournament yourself, you probably know that faggot/rape/nigger are thrown around probably 10x more often than they are in TF2. It's language that comes with the territory of competition and anyone that has so much as played pick-up basketball is probably also familiar with it. Keep it off streams/casts that are representing the community as a means of maintaining professionalism, but to try and make TF2 competition as a whole family-friendly and feelings-policed doesn't do much more than make the game more boring and mundane to a lot of players. Talking shit is fun, it creates texture and entertainment for the community, if you feel people are taking it too far then go ahead and take the issue up with them and I'm sure they'll be glad to respect your opinion.

Secondly, is that the community seems to be primarily focused on what I would consider "the words it's now cool to hate." The truth is that as much as anyone wants to get feelings-police-y about rape/faggot/whatever there are plenty of examples of words that are potentially offensive that these people gloss over. When is the last time you seriously did a double-take at someone calling someone fat? Or usage of the word bastard? Vocal proponents of changing language within this community glossed over REAL NIGGA GAMING when I brought it up because it's immediately understood that it's done for humor. Retroactively condemning it doesn't change the fact that you weren't initially offended by it because you understood its purpose and meaning immediately.

or as cody put it
3:09 PM - kaileÿ: we're already at a point where racism and homophobia are such a laughable minority that it's completely within reason to use them humorously
3:09 PM - kaileÿ: and if you think otherwise
3:09 PM - kaileÿ: congrats you can take up your new position as an SS officer with the feelings gestapo

too true

I use the word raped and faggot a lot but I have never meant it in a derogatory manner. Sometimes you use it to get a point across. It is wrong and I try not to use it so much now because I know some people find it offensive. I guess its time to work on that vocabulary instead of relying on those words to get my point across

hi

http://i.imgur.com/WGbqSvx.png

people who say "faggot", "nigger", "raped" etc etc in a casual manner disturb me a lot less than the people who say things like "girls can't play video games" and "transsexuals are just men in skirts" and "black people are less intelligent than whites" and so on and so forth in complete seriousness.

while casual use of "offensive" words may be a symptom of some degree of closeted (or not-so-closeted) bigotry, it just as often seems to be a result of peer pressure, & the social forces exerted on people of the certain age, personality type and socioeconomic background to play competitive tf2. if anyone remembers that drunk djc stream from a while back, this same issue came up, with some insightful commentary from tyrone and john. (i even went back to watch the vod again >.>)

It doesn't matter if homophobia isn't intended. A gay person hearing 'faggot' has a fair chance of being hurt by it. Your intentions don't matter. When you have the choice of maybe hurting someone for no reason, or not doing so, be humane.

I'd just be appreciative if we could get away from the whole gay=bad thing. We have a lot of words that mean bad. However, we also have a lot of words that mean good. For example, chocolate. No one will say that "Your jumps are like chocolate" if they are trying to shit talk. Or even words that are neutral. "You jump like a mailman." That just doesn't make sense. I want it to get to a point where if someone says "you jump like a faggot" people are like "that just doesn't make sense."

This has been hinted at a few times but I think it's important.

What people don't understand is that these words have real baggage. They are part of a history of victimization. They dredge up, or "trigger," emotions in people who have been victimized because of the fact that they are gay, black, whatever. There are people alive today who were around during the Civil Rights era and were brutalized by police amid shouts of "nigger." There are young adults around today, some of whom are part of this community, who were bullied in elementary school while being called a "faggot" or a "retard."

While you may not mean it in a certain way, and you and I may be adult enough to differentiate between vitriol and trash talk, this shit is real-life for some people. Not me, I'm very privileged. But for an increasing number of people we know words like this cause actual pain.

Check out the Poker Scene from LOUIE where they have a conversation about this kind of thing.

There is a difference between name-calling and being ostracized from a group for something. I bet you pretty much no one in this community got through high school without being called a faggot, regardless of whether or not they were even gay.

If you are really being "triggered" and have PTSD about someone calling someone else a faggot in a completely non-derogatory manner that is entirely on you. If I were to walk around calling everybody a cunt, shitlord, permavirgin, scrub, or idiot somehow I doubt we would make a thread about how idiot actually effects people of lower intellect and "triggers" them.

Fuck, just the notion of "trigger" is so infantile and moronic it actually makes me angry.

i probably wouldn't be very good friends with someone who got upset about my use of fag/gay/faggot when joking around. luckily I don't hang out with anyone like that.

i have no issue with gay people, it's not like I walk up to them and call them faggots. i feel like the people who get mad over things like that are also the ones who say African Americans in place of Black, but have no problem saying White over caucasian. a girl did that in my class last year and it really confused me.

The difference between "shitlord" and "faggot" is that "shitlord" isn't ever a word used to demean a minority group ostracized by a large percentage of society for something that's a part of who they are and isn't harmful to anyone (and I do mean a large percentage, not a "laughable minority").
"Cunt" is probably a word people would object to you calling people.

And "scrub"? Well, a scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly and is also known as a buster, so I don't see how that's relevant either.

I say we replace 'faggot' with 'thundercunt shitlord'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA

yes

edit: woops dont know why it posted 3 times

.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

Louis CK doesn't actually do that bit anymore.

The history of the word faggot I don't think is correct in the video, but it shows why he doesn't really use the word faggot anymore on stage.

1

Actual homophobes are definitely a laughable minority in our community or in EEEEEEESPORTS in general. Getting upset about it's usage in EEEEEESPORTS won't do anything to convince, prove wrong, or even phase actual homophobes and hate groups. "Faggot" is the recipient of such word inflation that to even get offended by it in the context most people use it in TF2 would require effort on someone's part. Most people when using it wouldn't ever associate it with actual homosexuality or homophobia so tying it historical oppression is superficial at best.

I throw around gestapo/nazi/hitler constantly as well and my grandparents on my mother's side were holocaust survivors. I refuse to accept that being "triggered" by the common usage of these words is anything other than a mark of immaturity and egoism by whoever is getting upset by it. As I said before, these people are adults and are capable of discerning language used from meaning intended.

Your debating "technique" of asserting personal merit is unbecoming. Please stop.

Guys my grandparents were holocaust survivors I am allowed to make light of the situation.

A quote from a different thread in which my ethos was under question and something I used to further a point that is a personal observation. Kindly go fuck yourself ace.

I was also called a nazi in school for being german/blonde haired/blue eyed, things that I have no control over but aren't bothered by because I'm not a child.

I'm sorry, did I trigger you?

Out of curiosity how old are you?