no thanks sorry I am quite busy right now

You first need to own a mind in order for us to change it

please take another year break

old amicdict would've made it less obvious that he's trolling gg he's lost his touch

I'm not trolling though, I really think Esperanto should be the language of european competitive TF2.

Valvo bonvolu aldoni ĉi tion!

Jes! mi jam kreas esperantan tradukon de Teama Fortreso 2

the zaza got him speaking esperanto

Hes so back

i saw the first 6 letters of the thread title and knew exactly what this was + who posted it, didn’t even see his thread from yesterday first

Seriously what's wrong with the idea? Esperanto can be is a very efficient language; and I thought comp players love efficiency, especially when English is bloated with exceptions...

Language and communication errors can be detrimental in some games...

i guess i can be the one to take u seriously and present the impossibly obvious answers

main problem is that about half of non-slav europe (250m+) already speaks english conversationally, and the ratio is certainly much higher in younger international online communities. esperanto has probably fewer than 100,000 fluent speakers globally, with many of those in SEA. asking what, 10-20% at most of tf2 euros to learn conversational english is less demanding than asking 99.9% of tf2 euros to learn esperanto

also keep in mind youd be asking those 99.9% to learn a new language purely to comm in tf2. they would still want to learn english to be able to communicate with foreigners in the real world. even if people wanted to move to an easier-to-learn, more structured language then spanish would be a much more useful alternative

english also actually works really well as an auxiliary language, at least for europe, mostly due to the elasticity of its grammar, but also from broad similarities to germanic structure and romance vocabulary. esperanto is probably also fine, but if you look empathetically at the real world usefulness of language, its only real advantage is ease of learning. if you wanted to talk about a global auxiliary language then its worth discussing constructed languages but thats not rly relevant in tf2

should also be noted that 95% of the problems ive seen about language barrier in euro gaming come from slavs (who have a different standard language) playing on euro servers, and most of the rest are about french people refusing to learn english

can you come up with an example of a comm that can't be expressed and easily understood in rudimentary english?

Ah, so y'all are the kind of people that think english is "easy to learn" when it takes 10 damn years (possibly more) to comprehend it like a native.

Mandarin has 1.4 billion speakers... thats more than the speakers of English! yet mandarin is notoriously difficult...

"International online" as in anglocentric. remember, all tech stuff is forced to be in English, because of the U.S...

Probably? You're not even gonna fact check, or even find sources? I've seen figures of 2 million esperanto speakers.

Ah yes, the "less demanding" english [1] and the "oh so demanding" esperanto [3] /s

The tech industry is literally doing that for the game, by having English be the language of programming.

It doesnt have to be purely for that; players can.

Most people cant comprehend english; there are 8 billion people in the world, out of those only around 400 million English speakers exist.

How is spanish a "more useful alternative"? I was forced to learn it years ago in school, and I cant remember it at all. If that was the case, how come I don't see every english speaker speaking spanish?

Only with bad standards can you consider English "working well" as an auxiliary language. Nothing more like, europe hating it because anglisms are making their way into their OWN languages.[4]

"elasticity" does not come from tons of exceptions to the grammar, that makes a language static and hypocritical.

Esperanto is spread; maybe not on the billions of scale, but it has strong roots in some places, like China and Hungary. It is also growing quickly, especially in context of esperanto being 118 years old (135, if counting the "Dua Libro"). English is 7 centuries old and that has tons of funding by imperialists and has been historically imposed on indigenous peoples of the world.

I've been in an MvM match with a french player complaining about how hard English is.

Good source: https://web.archive.org/web/20191027044103/http://remush.be/rebuttal/index.html#English (cited this one earlier.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzfB64p5TM&t=19s

this is the most anglocentric thing either of us have said

when your statistics are to be trusted completely:

https://i.imgur.com/GXdDdY4.png

i would be very sure this skews towards the lower end since it exists almost purely has a hobbyist language and has 0 native speaking cultures of any size

who are u quoting here?

what language would u recommend i learn if i want to go traveling around europe

sounds like u didnt practice very much. several ppl from my work who work with native spanish speakers talk to them in spanish purely from HS level education + practice/immersion

theres a lot of ppl in america who speak spanish as a 2nd language and almost none who speak esperanto

0% chance im discussing cross-cultural influence in europe with u but this is irrelevant and also not solved by esperanto

yes it does

unbelievable to me that a french person would complain about something foreign. this just made things serious

im laughing at how a guy who opens his article with being confused why a fruit that looks like a pinecone is called "pineapple", and thinking that "look" and "see" mean the same thing is meant to be an valuable source on the english language

Citing a meme video doesn't make it evidence.

How is that anglocentric? this is a problem with people from lots of nations, not just English, specifically about the tonal system of mandarin.

Once again, where is your evidence and what are you basing it on?

and either way, it has native speakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDS2WyemBI, https://stelachiamnurkritikas.wordpress.com/2018/02/04/native-esperanto-speaker-the-jubilee-child-part-1/, and https://kjzz.org/content/148926/esperanto-language-staying-alive-arizona-and-beyond . so you are wrong once again.

You:

Well, Esperanto. its not perfect, but it does work and there isn't the same coercion as is in English.

Did it look like I had time to practice spanish during school? if I tried to, I would have failed graduation... Most workers in the U.S are poor; and barely have much time off. It would be very hard for them to learn it, if they weren't immersed in it.

I didn't say how "many" because indeed, around 60 million spanish speakers exist in the U.S. I was talking about how come every (like each English speaking citiizen) doesn't also speak spanish.

Indeed; the solution is to give the ability for foreigners to program in their native languages.

What? How does making tons of exceptions to a grammar make it "flexible". I couldn't even make the word "misconflate", like I tried a year ago, without being told it isn't a "real word". how is that an example of "elasticity"?

Yep.

im going to go insane if i have to argue to u any more that english is orders of magnitude more prevalent both as a native and 2nd language

no it doesnt man. it has a small community of hobbyist families who taught their kids the language alongside their actual local native language that they all speak in day to day public life

please read before u reply. i said its more demanding to request that ~600m+ ppl learn a language nobody speaks than to request that a much smaller group of ppl learn a language that most ppl around them speak

so u genuinely believe that if i ordered at a restaurant, or asked for directions, or talked about a football match, anywhere in europe, i would have better success in communication speaking esperanto than in english, on average. just want to make the question very clear here

i agree, but that applies for any language. spanish has a high success rate because you actually can be immersed with it

cos theres no reason to be bilingual at all for most americans? really not sure what yr getting at

people made fun of u for saying that because it was funny, not because they couldnt infer what u meant. u being able to completely make up a word that makes rough sense to most ppl is actually a great example of elasticity. either way im talking about the grammar not the vocab so idc

there's NO WAY you got so upset about people on a tf2 forum complaining about your neologism that you logged off for a year and learned a retarded meme language dude. NO WAY

tftv is so back

Just asking you a question brody: how much did you study Esperanto? I've been studying it for a year and 1 month.

Also, I keep asking you what your evidence was for some claims, because you literally made them up; you didn't give any. so imm a guess that you dont have a source for them. so your claims are unsubstantiated.

I didn't say English had less native speakers...

I'm primarily saying that English is a difficult language to learn.

Yes it fucking does! I just linked you them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzDS2WyemBI, https://stelachiamnurkritikas.wordpress.com/2018/02/04/native-esperanto-speaker-the-jubilee-child-part-1/, and https://kjzz.org/content/148926/esperanto-language-staying-alive-arizona-and-beyond.

What do you think the term "native" means? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/native

I did, I exactly read that.

Your exact post: here:

Yes.

Indeed, but Esperanto was the easiest for the bunch. it only took me 3 months to learn it.

Also, simply by using notecards plastered on an object you can immerse your self in any written language. maybe not with a speaker, but it helps when you're alone.

True, but I was talking about in terms of difficulty. Spanish is difficult.

Vocabulary is necessarily influenced by grammar, and both affect each other. Why do you think English has so many grammatical exceptions?

What rough sense was there? I literally saw one person complain about "misconflate" being confusing:

Here is the thread: https://www.teamfortress.tv/60244/is-consistency-always-a-good-thing/?page=3

So, this is not elasticity. this is strict with general guidelines.

i mean this with love but 0% chance anyone is reading all of that

Esperanto aint retarded, nor a meme. It's actually pretty intelligent. much more so than English.

only 16 rules and all letters have consistent sound; any root words can be junctioned with each other; theres no grammatical gender; and there are completely no exceptions: https://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/gramatiko_angla.html.

there's a reason Esperanto is the only other language I've managed to properly learn.

Most of the length was from quote blocks though...

another easy debate victory for aimisadick

im glad we all already speak english so we can have this discussion

Well, how much did you study Esperanto? I've been studying it for a year and 1 month.

So brody didn't respond once to the above comment, so I'm guessing that they did not study it for any length of time. In that case, it is very hypocritical of you to talk down to me for being arrogant in comp knowledge, but to then not even study Esperanto and arrogantly spread incorrect information about it, not even providing evidence.

Also I linked you sources, multiple times, (this one in particular: https://web.archive.org/web/20191027044103/http://remush.be/rebuttal/index.html#English).

Mandarin should clearly be the language of ALL TF2.

It's the perfect universal second language. Relatively easy grammar, already spoken by the majority of good players in eSports (Non-American), tonality of language adds appreciation of the world around you.