basically another way of asking which class is better
Scout v Soldier Discussion
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Ringo__Starryou say that but
what does any soldier say when a scout outgays them
If you're getting heals, it won't matter because he can't out damage your health regen. If you're roamer, you can jump away. Getting out gayed is hard in game unless your entire team is dead
[quote=Ringo__Starr]you say that but
what does any soldier say when a scout outgays them[/quote]
If you're getting heals, it won't matter because he can't out damage your health regen. If you're roamer, you can jump away. Getting out gayed is hard in game unless your entire team is dead
what does any soldier say when a scout outgays them[/quote]
If you're getting heals, it won't matter because he can't out damage your health regen. If you're roamer, you can jump away. Getting out gayed is hard in game unless your entire team is dead
1v1s like what you're asking for never happen. The only time they ever would is on flank, and that's rarely more than trading chip shots.
Even if a MGE/ammomod-type 1v1 were to happen, say if both teams wiped on mid except for a soldier and scout on opposite teams, it depends on mostly terrain. I.E, badlands mid. scout would win because they can legitimately just keep chip shotting the soldier from choke/valley until he makes the mistake of trying to bomb, in which case it's pretty easy for the scout to clean up.
If the same thing were to happen at spire for some reason, the soldier would have the advantage if he was on spire first, and the scout would if the scout was on first. It's all a matter of positioning.
1v1s like what you're asking for never happen. The only time they ever would is on flank, and that's rarely more than trading chip shots.
Even if a MGE/ammomod-type 1v1 were to happen, say if both teams wiped on mid except for a soldier and scout on opposite teams, it depends on mostly terrain. I.E, badlands mid. scout would win because they can legitimately just keep chip shotting the soldier from choke/valley until he makes the mistake of trying to bomb, in which case it's pretty easy for the scout to clean up.
If the same thing were to happen at spire for some reason, the soldier would have the advantage if he was on spire first, and the scout would if the scout was on first. It's all a matter of positioning.
Even if a MGE/ammomod-type 1v1 were to happen, say if both teams wiped on mid except for a soldier and scout on opposite teams, it depends on mostly terrain. I.E, badlands mid. scout would win because they can legitimately just keep chip shotting the soldier from choke/valley until he makes the mistake of trying to bomb, in which case it's pretty easy for the scout to clean up.
If the same thing were to happen at spire for some reason, the soldier would have the advantage if he was on spire first, and the scout would if the scout was on first. It's all a matter of positioning.
Deadliest Warrior(Class) Episode 1 - Scout vs Soldier
Some 1 make a episode to resolve this XD
Deadliest Warrior(Class) Episode 1 - Scout vs Soldier
Some 1 make a episode to resolve this XD
Some 1 make a episode to resolve this XD
In a perfectly flat room with no obstacles the soldier will always win, terrain and geometry plays a massive role in the fight if it is included.
In a perfectly flat room with no obstacles the soldier will always win, terrain and geometry plays a massive role in the fight if it is included.
http://www.twitch.tv/teamfortresstv/b/410513840?t=53m52s
scout op nerf pls
But in all seriousness; as boomer said, there are too many variables to say "which class should win the fight". Element of surprise, health(overheal also), ammo loaded, position, map, players that are alive, time left on map. Different factors often will have you play differently depending on the situation
I mean after all, if you have an overheal and surprise a soldier, even if he has a healbeam - if you hit two meatshots + some point blank, he will probably die due to self-damage etc.
http://www.twitch.tv/teamfortresstv/b/410513840?t=53m52s
scout op nerf pls
But in all seriousness; as boomer said, there are too many variables to say "which class should win the fight". Element of surprise, health(overheal also), ammo loaded, position, map, players that are alive, time left on map. Different factors often will have you play differently depending on the situation
I mean after all, if you have an overheal and surprise a soldier, even if he has a healbeam - if you hit two meatshots + some point blank, he will probably die due to self-damage etc.
scout op nerf pls
But in all seriousness; as boomer said, there are too many variables to say "which class should win the fight". Element of surprise, health(overheal also), ammo loaded, position, map, players that are alive, time left on map. Different factors often will have you play differently depending on the situation
I mean after all, if you have an overheal and surprise a soldier, even if he has a healbeam - if you hit two meatshots + some point blank, he will probably die due to self-damage etc.
mScubaSquidboomerthere's too many variables to answer a question like this
the way i see it, and this is just personal opinion. there is alot more of a chance of a scout winning the battle solely for the projectile vs hit scan weapons. projectiles can be easily dodged and avoided as long as you are in view of the person firing it (in most cases) where as even if you are looking directly at a scout its alot harder to be able to dodge his hitscan because the damage is instantaneous. with the added movement speed and double jump a scout playing from mid range distance is more likely to win the fight even if the soldier has the height advantage
its really not
when you say that projectiles are easier dodged than hitscan thats kinda bullshit/an opinion presented as fact because a lot of soldiers who are really good at mge are good at soldier v scout because they just know which splash rockets to shoot to deny the scout getting close to them without taking damage
different players with different movement-styles and different sensitivites all present different ways of dodging and aiming that really make the arguement about which one is easier to dodge a pretty useless one
if theres no timelimit a scout should literally never die to a soldier because hes faster and can just stay at mid+ range where his weapons/movement are way more efficient than the soldiers and rape him
generally speaking if you have to get close to a soldier the soldier should win
that being said you dont have 40 seconds to chip away a soldiers buff in a game, he will have his team show up
this is why these questions are pretty fucking stupid to argue about because tf2 doesnt happen in a vacuum, the closest thing to that is ammomod (mge) which still has a ton of easily abuse-able mechanics
a huge part of being an effective scout is being able to not miss while you have shit loaded and are closing in on a soldier
watching people like yz50 a few seasons ago or clockwork now who can literally shoot as fast as possible while dodging and never hitting less than 60 is really cool and impressive, which i guess is why so many people think of them as the top dm-heavy scouts
tl;dr you guys should argue about which color is the best or what is the best kind of weather because it would honestly be a more logical/relevant arguement
well honestly to me the best scout could dodge every shot and not fire one and still be incredibly effective and annoying but, I guess everyone has their own opinions right?
[quote=m][quote=ScubaSquid][quote=boomer]there's too many variables to answer a question like this[/quote]
the way i see it, and this is just personal opinion. there is alot more of a chance of a scout winning the battle solely for the projectile vs hit scan weapons. projectiles can be easily dodged and avoided as long as you are in view of the person firing it (in most cases) where as even if you are looking directly at a scout its alot harder to be able to dodge his hitscan because the damage is instantaneous. with the added movement speed and double jump a scout playing from mid range distance is more likely to win the fight even if the soldier has the height advantage[/quote]
its really not
when you say that projectiles are easier dodged than hitscan thats kinda bullshit/an opinion presented as fact because a lot of soldiers who are really good at mge are good at soldier v scout because they just know which splash rockets to shoot to deny the scout getting close to them without taking damage
different players with different movement-styles and different sensitivites all present different ways of dodging and aiming that really make the arguement about which one is easier to dodge a pretty useless one
if theres no timelimit a scout should literally never die to a soldier because hes faster and can just stay at mid+ range where his weapons/movement are way more efficient than the soldiers and rape him
generally speaking if you have to get close to a soldier the soldier should win
that being said you dont have 40 seconds to chip away a soldiers buff in a game, he will have his team show up
this is why these questions are pretty fucking stupid to argue about because tf2 doesnt happen in a vacuum, the closest thing to that is ammomod (mge) which still has a ton of easily abuse-able mechanics
a huge part of being an effective scout is being able to not miss while you have shit loaded and are closing in on a soldier
watching people like yz50 a few seasons ago or clockwork now who can literally shoot as fast as possible while dodging and never hitting less than 60 is really cool and impressive, which i guess is why so many people think of them as the top dm-heavy scouts
tl;dr you guys should argue about which color is the best or what is the best kind of weather because it would honestly be a more logical/relevant arguement[/quote]
well honestly to me the best scout could dodge every shot and not fire one and still be incredibly effective and annoying but, I guess everyone has their own opinions right?
the way i see it, and this is just personal opinion. there is alot more of a chance of a scout winning the battle solely for the projectile vs hit scan weapons. projectiles can be easily dodged and avoided as long as you are in view of the person firing it (in most cases) where as even if you are looking directly at a scout its alot harder to be able to dodge his hitscan because the damage is instantaneous. with the added movement speed and double jump a scout playing from mid range distance is more likely to win the fight even if the soldier has the height advantage[/quote]
its really not
when you say that projectiles are easier dodged than hitscan thats kinda bullshit/an opinion presented as fact because a lot of soldiers who are really good at mge are good at soldier v scout because they just know which splash rockets to shoot to deny the scout getting close to them without taking damage
different players with different movement-styles and different sensitivites all present different ways of dodging and aiming that really make the arguement about which one is easier to dodge a pretty useless one
if theres no timelimit a scout should literally never die to a soldier because hes faster and can just stay at mid+ range where his weapons/movement are way more efficient than the soldiers and rape him
generally speaking if you have to get close to a soldier the soldier should win
that being said you dont have 40 seconds to chip away a soldiers buff in a game, he will have his team show up
this is why these questions are pretty fucking stupid to argue about because tf2 doesnt happen in a vacuum, the closest thing to that is ammomod (mge) which still has a ton of easily abuse-able mechanics
a huge part of being an effective scout is being able to not miss while you have shit loaded and are closing in on a soldier
watching people like yz50 a few seasons ago or clockwork now who can literally shoot as fast as possible while dodging and never hitting less than 60 is really cool and impressive, which i guess is why so many people think of them as the top dm-heavy scouts
tl;dr you guys should argue about which color is the best or what is the best kind of weather because it would honestly be a more logical/relevant arguement[/quote]
well honestly to me the best scout could dodge every shot and not fire one and still be incredibly effective and annoying but, I guess everyone has their own opinions right?
reqqybasically another way of asking which class is better
no thats not what im getting at. No class is better than the other, its the way they manipulate their skills and traits that creates advantages over the other. We are trying to determine who has the advantage here
[quote=reqqy]basically another way of asking which class is better[/quote]
no thats not what im getting at. No class is better than the other, its the way they manipulate their skills and traits that creates advantages over the other. We are trying to determine who has the advantage here
no thats not what im getting at. No class is better than the other, its the way they manipulate their skills and traits that creates advantages over the other. We are trying to determine who has the advantage here
ScubaSquiddodge every shot
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss every single shot then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage
[quote=ScubaSquid]dodge every shot[/quote]
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss [u]every single shot[/u] then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss [u]every single shot[/u] then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage
Ringo__StarrScubaSquiddodge every shot
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss every single shot then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage
add in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward
i agree that soldier has advantage in a perfectly flat no geometry arena but this is a mute point because nothing like this exists in the actual game
EDIT: assuming the arena isn't massive and the scout is forced to be mid range or closer
[quote=Ringo__Starr][quote=ScubaSquid]dodge every shot[/quote]
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss [u]every single shot[/u] then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage[/quote]
add in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward
i agree that soldier has advantage in a perfectly flat no geometry arena but this is a mute point because nothing like this exists in the actual game
EDIT: assuming the arena isn't massive and the scout is forced to be mid range or closer
I'm reading this as "outplay everyone"
if everyone on the other team is so bad that they miss [u]every single shot[/u] then there are some other problems afoot
splash allows you to do damage when you effectively miss, and add to the fact that you already have the scouts primary weapon and more health than they do WITHOUT rockets
seems kind of silly to say the soldier is at the disadvantage[/quote]
add in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward
i agree that soldier has advantage in a perfectly flat no geometry arena but this is a mute point because nothing like this exists in the actual game
EDIT: assuming the arena isn't massive and the scout is forced to be mid range or closer
frknadd in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp
[quote=frkn]add in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward[/quote]
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp
Ringo__Starrfrknadd in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp
but the fact of the matter it is harder to hit a faster target so if you are expecting them to hit the exact same shots then the skill is not equal
if it is a linear one-to-one relationship (probably not) then it is 1.6625 times harder to hit a scout than a soldier...and a soldier has 1.6 times as much health
my point is this issue isn't as straight forward as you are making it out to be
[quote=Ringo__Starr][quote=frkn]add in the 1.6625 times faster move speed and double jump and it is a little less straight forward[/quote]
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp[/quote]
but the fact of the matter it is [i]harder[/i] to hit a faster target so if you are expecting them to hit the exact same shots then the skill is not equal
if it is a linear one-to-one relationship (probably not) then it is 1.6625 times harder to hit a scout than a soldier...and a soldier has 1.6 times as much health
my point is this issue isn't as straight forward as you are making it out to be
If there is a hitbox, hitscan will hit it. Maybe if they could aim their shotgun that wouldn't be a problem but oh wait
just from a simple standpoint if no one misses a shot with a shotgun the soldier wins simply because he has more hp[/quote]
but the fact of the matter it is [i]harder[/i] to hit a faster target so if you are expecting them to hit the exact same shots then the skill is not equal
if it is a linear one-to-one relationship (probably not) then it is 1.6625 times harder to hit a scout than a soldier...and a soldier has 1.6 times as much health
my point is this issue isn't as straight forward as you are making it out to be
I get that, but wouldn't you think the soldier is outplaying the scout if he won with only shotty?
he has rockets too, the weapon that rewards you for missing
I'd say that should factor somewhere into the matchup as well
I get that, but wouldn't you think the soldier is outplaying the scout if he won with only shotty?
he has rockets too, the weapon that rewards you for missing
I'd say that should factor somewhere into the matchup as well
he has rockets too, the weapon that rewards you for missing
I'd say that should factor somewhere into the matchup as well
b4nny on soldier beat shrugger on scout on badlands mid pretty hard in that MGE tourny thingy
b4nny on soldier beat shrugger on scout on badlands mid pretty hard in that MGE tourny thingy
People see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both
People see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both
alec_b4nny on soldier beat shrugger on scout on badlands mid pretty hard in that MGE tourny thingy
well that's b4nny
Anyways, this thread isn't really much useful, like boomer said, this situation has much too many variables to arbitrate the definite winner on this. A battle on spire scoutvsoldier is much different from a scoutvsoldier on Snakewater middle. It's an endless debate that really won't solve anything, It's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.
The world may never know.
[quote=alec_]b4nny on soldier beat shrugger on scout on badlands mid pretty hard in that MGE tourny thingy[/quote]
well that's b4nny
Anyways, this thread isn't really much useful, like boomer said, this situation has much too many variables to arbitrate the definite winner on this. A battle on spire scoutvsoldier is much different from a scoutvsoldier on Snakewater middle. It's an endless debate that really won't solve anything, It's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.
The world may never know.
well that's b4nny
Anyways, this thread isn't really much useful, like boomer said, this situation has much too many variables to arbitrate the definite winner on this. A battle on spire scoutvsoldier is much different from a scoutvsoldier on Snakewater middle. It's an endless debate that really won't solve anything, It's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.
The world may never know.
Ringo__StarrPeople see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both
but I would argue that it is easier for a scout to outplay the soldier because their move speed and double jump lets them control the fight. The scout controls the range of the fight, the soldier is forced to fight at the distance the scout wants to. Unless he jumps which is a terrible idea against a scout that is looking at you
[quote=Ringo__Starr]People see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both[/quote]
but I would argue that it is easier for a scout to outplay the soldier because their move speed and double jump lets them control the fight. The scout controls the range of the fight, the soldier is forced to fight at the distance the scout wants to. Unless he jumps which is a terrible idea against a scout that is looking at you
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both[/quote]
but I would argue that it is easier for a scout to outplay the soldier because their move speed and double jump lets them control the fight. The scout controls the range of the fight, the soldier is forced to fight at the distance the scout wants to. Unless he jumps which is a terrible idea against a scout that is looking at you
because it's too hard to land 2-3 shots at most on someone running away
predicting with a prediction weapon is too hard
scouts can just be anywhere instantaneously and hitting them at a distance is impossible
the shotgun is too difficult because they move too fast, obv not gonna hit anything there
there are no boundaries to stop or regulate movement either, and god forbid no one can use that knowledge to make predictions either
I have 4 shots in a clip that can individually take away half the scouts health when I MISS
and the scout's primary if that fails
but I can't win the matchup
what do
because it's too hard to land 2-3 shots at most on someone running away
predicting with a prediction weapon is too hard
scouts can just be anywhere instantaneously and hitting them at a distance is impossible
the shotgun is too difficult because they move too fast, obv not gonna hit anything there
there are no boundaries to stop or regulate movement either, and god forbid no one can use that knowledge to make predictions either
I have 4 shots in a clip that can individually take away half the scouts health when I [b]MISS[/b]
and the scout's primary if that fails
but I can't win the matchup
what do
predicting with a prediction weapon is too hard
scouts can just be anywhere instantaneously and hitting them at a distance is impossible
the shotgun is too difficult because they move too fast, obv not gonna hit anything there
there are no boundaries to stop or regulate movement either, and god forbid no one can use that knowledge to make predictions either
I have 4 shots in a clip that can individually take away half the scouts health when I [b]MISS[/b]
and the scout's primary if that fails
but I can't win the matchup
what do
Ringo__Starrstuff
thats all fine and dandy, but it is easy to hit 2 meatshots too
[quote=Ringo__Starr]
stuff[/quote]
thats all fine and dandy, but it is easy to hit 2 meatshots too
stuff[/quote]
thats all fine and dandy, but it is easy to hit 2 meatshots too
emilia clarke: lmao
emilia clarke: the way I see it
emilia clarke: is as soldier you can miss and do 60 damage
emilia clarke: on scout you can hit a meatshot and do 0
emilia clarke: ..
emilia clarke: and scout wins that matchup somehow
emilia clarke: ok
emilia clarke: makes sense
Nate Rivers: Yeah, splash is fairly forgiving.
emilia clarke: lmao
emilia clarke: the way I see it
emilia clarke: is as soldier you can miss and do 60 damage
emilia clarke: on scout you can hit a meatshot and do 0
emilia clarke: ..
emilia clarke: and scout wins that matchup somehow
emilia clarke: ok
emilia clarke: makes sense
Nate Rivers: Yeah, splash is fairly forgiving.
emilia clarke: the way I see it
emilia clarke: is as soldier you can miss and do 60 damage
emilia clarke: on scout you can hit a meatshot and do 0
emilia clarke: ..
emilia clarke: and scout wins that matchup somehow
emilia clarke: ok
emilia clarke: makes sense
Nate Rivers: Yeah, splash is fairly forgiving.
frownyIn a perfectly flat room with no obstacles the soldier will always win, terrain and geometry plays a massive role in the fight if it is included.
This guy has never played vs Shrugger or Dave_ in Ammomod.
(Though in most cases you're right.)
[quote=frowny]In a perfectly flat room with no obstacles the soldier will always win, terrain and geometry plays a massive role in the fight if it is included.[/quote]
This guy has never played vs Shrugger or Dave_ in Ammomod.
(Though in most cases you're right.)
This guy has never played vs Shrugger or Dave_ in Ammomod.
(Though in most cases you're right.)
ringo you sound like the typical open scout main that has never played any other class in his entire life
ringo you sound like the typical open scout main that has never played any other class in his entire life
Ringo__StarrPeople see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both
Or it could be that they actually know how to play scout
Which you, obviously, do not know how to do
[quote=Ringo__Starr]People see high level scouts beat soldiers and come to the conclusion that the matchup must be rigged toward the scout because that's how the results turn out at high level
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both[/quote]
Or it could be that they actually know how to play scout
Which you, obviously, do not know how to do
when the reality is the scouts are just simply heavily outplaying them
or they could be playing really whack
or both[/quote]
Or it could be that they actually know how to play scout
Which you, obviously, do not know how to do
yes, only a bad player or a troll can think that soldiers beat scouts in 1v1's, how dare I think anything otherwise
yes, only a bad player or a troll can think that soldiers beat scouts in 1v1's, how dare I think anything otherwise
Ringo__Starryes, only a bad player or a troll can think that soldiers beat scouts in 1v1's
:) no one said that :)
[quote=Ringo__Starr]yes, only a bad player or a troll can think that soldiers beat scouts in 1v1's[/quote]
:) no one said that :)
:) no one said that :)
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