that was mean im sorry pls forgiv

yup. people were calling for gunboats to be banned for several seasons after it came out even.

that's not what they did for crit-a-cola when it was first buffed

If quick fix was banned mid season, you would have had to ban equalizer/escape plan if you followed the same logic

actaully no because escape plan got nerfed, not buffed

the escape plan nerf didn't completely change the way soldiers play

It's actually not racist it at all, it's a fact that in 18th century america white, land-owning males were the only ones who were educated. If you think that's racist then you're digging pretty deep.

Why am I arguing about this with you anyway? My point was entirely about uneducated people participating in meaningful discussion and somehow you got that to be racist despite it being factually accurate.

right but the argument is that the items that got changed => banned. I guess you can pick choose what you want banned or not banned after updates, but then don't use the argument that this is the way it was previously done so the quick fix should have been handled the same.

I'd like to see them buff the other mediguns rather than nerf the qf. The qf can make for some of the funnest tf2 you can play. It's unfortunate it had such a short lifespan.

Or you could just use common sense. This same scenario happened a few seasons ago and while most changed items were allowed the crit a cola was banned because it was obviously going to impact the game.

although you can justify it in that way, the people who were educated were racist and sexist, and like everyone else in the world, power hungry. They did things moreso for themselves than for the good of the people, even the fouding fathers wanted to become independent from Britain because they didn't want to pay debts and taxes, but rather wanted to keep and make more money.

also, even though people are uneducated it doesn't mean their opinion is unimportant, it may be weak and they might be stubborn, but sometimes things they say are right, or should be taken into concideration.

the quick fix argument of whether or not it should be banned can go either way, they are supports and flaws in both sides of the argument, and numerous people in the community will not change their opinion.

arguments should be supported by facts, and not opinions, and your view of whoever being stupid is an opinion, not a fact

When the EQ was split the escape plan was allowed as a one-time only exception to the rule that items introduced during the season would be allowed. The quick fix had massive changes (all buffs) and was not banned despite there being precedent for the banning of weapons that received large buffs mid season. Massive weapon nerfs being equated to massive weapon buffs in terms of "anything that gets changed should be banned (no one is saying this)" is fucking stupid and I know you're smart enough that I don't have to spell that out to you.

Now because I feel like actually making a serious post again because the population of this forum has completely ignored my one-time attempt to not be an asshole (http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/11455-an-explanation), I'm going to go ahead and say that banning the weapon is totally fine, should have been done earlier, and anyone getting mad over it is dumb. If you'll notice in that explanation thread, we have someone I've never heard of saying that a ugc silver highlander engineer's opinion is as valuable as anyone else's here (and why I brought up the founding father's stance on democracy). This is objectively wrong and the opinion of either a sophist or a moron. If you were to say that Roger Federer's opinion on a rule change in tennis was as valuable as say Joey "Killing in the Name" Oksenhendler, you would probably be laughed out of any serious discussion about tennis. This is important because despite the massive UGC poster count here that thinks "the meta is stale", it is important to filter out uninformed opinions when making game defining decisions and killing's choice clearly reverberates with the point of view that most players and viewers assumed when actually having to watch the QF being used and not just theory-crafting after LAN for the forum shitstorm.

Now my point here is that no one with a respectable opinion has posted a response to my explanation in defense of the quick fix. Nobody here has explained how it has made the game faster, how it has made it better, or how its inclusion (the only differing factor between the previous lan and this) made LAN at all enjoyable to play or watch. Despite in previous years commanding the lion's share of the LAN viewers, we didn't have a fourth of what CSGO had. The players themselves at the LAN (if you read chat) clearly weren't all that excited either and the casters, stream chat, and viewer count all point to the fact that it was pretty shitty to watch.

I find it ironic that so many people tout the conch play as indicative that the quick fix is not over-powered despite the fact that it was a single 7 second play and then in the same breath decry the part of the community that they accuse of having a knee-jerk reaction to the quick fix because of one gullywash stalemate. Nevermind that there are BLUE NAMES saying that lan was shitty to watch even outside of that match, someone else with a BLUE NAME has said something that caters to my pre-judgements better so I'll ignore that other raff! I mean we have people like the illustrious r4pture here who apparently think that no one has ever complained about gullywash previous to this and that it is clearly indicative that everyone disagreeing with him is just bandwagoning on what slin said.

Healbot's question to enigma should be illuminating for most people, in that enigma is not trying to rally to unban the weapon, but simply state that there was an over-reaction and the way killing went about banning it was not the very best (fair point).

I agree it was pretty bad to watch at this LAN, that's not what I was arguing about. I do agree that the QF meta is pretty bad right now and it shouldn't have been allowed mid season, but invite teams didn't just decide to try it at LAN where it is high stakes; they obviously came prepared to deal with it with their currently best solution: run it yourself with heavy/sniper.

Offseason is the best time to figure out if it is truly overpowered (I think it's slightly too strong myself, but can't say it's overpowered yet). I do admit that not enough unlocks are tested during the offseason and will let bad things through still (battalion's backup was pretty stupid).

No, a similar situation happened during the pyromania update.

The Equalizer was split into Escape Plan/Equalizer. Both were considered nerfs of the original Equalizer so they were both allowed (this was also mid-season).

Crit-a-Cola was buffed to increase the duration and give scout a +25% movespeed bonus. It was banned.

The slippery slope logic here doesn't apply.