I thought this thread was about fat people, not transgender folks.
Anyway, gender dysphoria is a disease. Why do I say this? Because it's a condition that requires medical treatment.
But just because it's an illness doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the people who have it, just as people born with six fingers, double jointed elbows, or red hair. I'm just kidding; gingers have no souls.
In an ideal world, people wouldn't have gender dysphoria, but our world is far from ideal and people are unhappy with their sex, so we tell them to go ahead and be happy. Why not?
This idea makes a good number of people uncomfortable. I have a few theories on this, including that it threatens their own sense of sexuality. But I mostly think it ties in with people's aversion to accepting that they have a modicum control over their own lives, because that would mean confronting the fact that their pathetic situation is their own responsibility and not cursed fate brought onto an otherwise deserving person.
The same thing goes for fat people, actually. I once read about why people make fun of fat people, but not, say, short people. And the response was that while fat people (barring severe medical conditions and other extenuating circumstances) have control over their lifestyle (eg. exercise, diet) short people almost have no handle on their growth.
Then I asked, why do we make fun of people with small penises? Isn't that entirely genetic as well? I've yet to receive a cogent response for that one.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is,if your penis is less than the average size, know that the vast majority of the world including the people with small penises is judging and mocking you for it.
I thought this thread was about fat people, not transgender folks.
Anyway, gender dysphoria is a disease. Why do I say this? Because it's a condition that requires medical treatment.
But just because it's an illness doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the people who have it, just as people born with six fingers, double jointed elbows, or red hair. I'm just kidding; gingers have no souls.
In an ideal world, people wouldn't have gender dysphoria, but our world is far from ideal and people are unhappy with their sex, so we tell them to go ahead and be happy. Why not?
This idea makes a good number of people uncomfortable. I have a few theories on this, including that it threatens their own sense of sexuality. But I mostly think it ties in with people's aversion to accepting that they have a modicum control over their own lives, because that would mean confronting the fact that their pathetic situation is their own responsibility and not cursed fate brought onto an otherwise deserving person.
The same thing goes for fat people, actually. I once read about why people make fun of fat people, but not, say, short people. And the response was that while fat people (barring severe medical conditions and other extenuating circumstances) have control over their lifestyle (eg. exercise, diet) short people almost have no handle on their growth.
Then I asked, why do we make fun of people with small penises? Isn't that entirely genetic as well? I've yet to receive a cogent response for that one.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is,if your penis is less than the average size, know that the vast majority of the world including the people with small penises is judging and mocking you for it.
but what if i have a much larger than average penis size, mr. snowy
but what if i have a much larger than average penis size, mr. snowy
Snowysave space
I don't think it has to do with them projecting(i believe that would be the correct term, correct me if i'm wrong) their own insecurities about the world, or that they don't like them because it makes them realize harsh truths about themselves..
Pretty sure a lot of it is religion(hell a lot of anti-gay marriage people don't actually hate gays they just don't it to be labeled as a marraige for religious reasons), or just a feeling of "unnaturalness" or deceptive i.e.) the photo's waffleB posted most people probably don't want to imagine a 6 inch hairy schlong hanging from the girls privates, for a lot of people it probably sends shivers up their back, and since humans are by nature rather emotionally driven they don't really approve of something that disgusts them.
@Ranga if depends on how big, if we're talking like elephantitis most people probably are laughing you, or disgusted by it.
[quote=Snowy]save space[/quote]
I don't think it has to do with them projecting(i believe that would be the correct term, correct me if i'm wrong) their own insecurities about the world, or that they don't like them because it makes them realize harsh truths about themselves..
Pretty sure a lot of it is religion(hell a lot of anti-gay marriage people don't actually hate gays they just don't it to be labeled as a marraige for religious reasons), or just a feeling of "unnaturalness" or deceptive i.e.) the photo's waffleB posted most people probably don't want to imagine a 6 inch hairy schlong hanging from the girls privates, for a lot of people it probably sends shivers up their back, and since humans are by nature rather emotionally driven they don't really approve of something that disgusts them.
@Ranga if depends on how big, if we're talking like elephantitis most people probably are laughing you, or disgusted by it.
So guys
Fat people, right?
So guys
Fat people, right?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ORF7v1g.jpg[/img]
r.i.ip. this thread
waffleb
Also, you act as if me being a woman is a "lie". I can assure you that I am a woman. I use the women's restroom daily - nobody once has told me to get out because I'm a liar. I don't think they would tell me that, even if they knew I was trans. Should I use the mens room instead? Would that be more appropriate, in your opinion? Please consider these types of things before you go and consider me a man. I can assure you with certainty that I definitely do not belong in a masculine gender role, because I am not a man.
You may argue "Well, you have to use the womens room, but you're still a liar!". This would obviously be bullshit, because I don't have to lie to anyone in order to use it. All I do is walk in looking like a woman and everyone goes about their day. There is no rule requiring me to prove that I am of the female sex before I use the womens room - only that myself and others can judge that I am enough of a woman to use it.
What about men that look like women? Are they supposed to use the women's restroom, and be referred to as her because they look like a woman but identify as a man?
What about women that look like men? Are they supposed to use the men's restroom, and be referred to as him because they look like a man but identify as a woman?
I think judging people by their looks is kind of a strange view on how to identify gender, especially coming from a trans person. We should probably just switch over to unisex bathrooms that way there's never any confusion.
[quote=waffleb]
Also, you act as if me being a woman is a "lie". I can assure you that I am a woman. I use the women's restroom daily - nobody once has told me to get out because I'm a liar. I don't think they would tell me that, even if they knew I was trans. Should I use the mens room instead? Would that be more appropriate, in your opinion? Please consider these types of things before you go and consider me a man. I can assure you with certainty that I definitely do not belong in a masculine gender role, because I am not a man.
You may argue "Well, you have to use the womens room, but you're still a liar!". This would obviously be bullshit, because I don't have to lie to anyone in order to use it. All I do is walk in looking like a woman and everyone goes about their day. There is no rule requiring me to prove that I am of the female sex before I use the womens room - only that myself and others can judge that I am enough of a woman to use it.[/quote]
What about men that look like women? Are they supposed to use the women's restroom, and be referred to as her because they look like a woman but identify as a man?
What about women that look like men? Are they supposed to use the men's restroom, and be referred to as him because they look like a man but identify as a woman?
I think judging people by their looks is kind of a strange view on how to identify gender, especially coming from a trans person. We should probably just switch over to unisex bathrooms that way there's never any confusion.
clorgwaffleb
Also, you act as if me being a woman is a "lie". I can assure you that I am a woman. I use the women's restroom daily - nobody once has told me to get out because I'm a liar. I don't think they would tell me that, even if they knew I was trans. Should I use the mens room instead? Would that be more appropriate, in your opinion? Please consider these types of things before you go and consider me a man. I can assure you with certainty that I definitely do not belong in a masculine gender role, because I am not a man.
You may argue "Well, you have to use the womens room, but you're still a liar!". This would obviously be bullshit, because I don't have to lie to anyone in order to use it. All I do is walk in looking like a woman and everyone goes about their day. There is no rule requiring me to prove that I am of the female sex before I use the womens room - only that myself and others can judge that I am enough of a woman to use it.
What about men that look like women? Are they supposed to use the women's restroom, and be referred to as her because they look like a woman but identify as a man?
What about women that look like men? Are they supposed to use the men's restroom, and be referred to as him they look like a man but identify as a woman?
this isnt about how you look its how you feel. anyway, fat people
[quote=clorg][quote=waffleb]
Also, you act as if me being a woman is a "lie". I can assure you that I am a woman. I use the women's restroom daily - nobody once has told me to get out because I'm a liar. I don't think they would tell me that, even if they knew I was trans. Should I use the mens room instead? Would that be more appropriate, in your opinion? Please consider these types of things before you go and consider me a man. I can assure you with certainty that I definitely do not belong in a masculine gender role, because I am not a man.
You may argue "Well, you have to use the womens room, but you're still a liar!". This would obviously be bullshit, because I don't have to lie to anyone in order to use it. All I do is walk in looking like a woman and everyone goes about their day. There is no rule requiring me to prove that I am of the female sex before I use the womens room - only that myself and others can judge that I am enough of a woman to use it.[/quote]
What about men that look like women? Are they supposed to use the women's restroom, and be referred to as her because they look like a woman but identify as a man?
What about women that look like men? Are they supposed to use the men's restroom, and be referred to as him they look like a man but identify as a woman?[/quote]
this isnt about how you look its how you feel. anyway, fat people
I'm not even sure what this is about anymore.
I'm not even sure what this is about anymore.
Since I forgot the beginning of the thread and don't want to reread, I'll restart a bit.
I think it's natural to view certain levels of fatness with disgust and some prejudice because of the way people "naturally" are (people view very undesirable traits as such), but it's better in general to avoid confrontation or being a dick for the sake of it. I mean if you knew the full story of someone, you could empathize with them, but nobody has seen the lives through someone else. Still society should try to pressure people in general to be healthy regardless of whether it's being fat, smoking, etc. Just make sure it's not actually causing them to self destruct because those kinds of people are often emotionally or psychologically vulnerable.
Since I forgot the beginning of the thread and don't want to reread, I'll restart a bit.
I think it's natural to view certain levels of fatness with disgust and some prejudice because of the way people "naturally" are (people view very undesirable traits as such), but it's better in general to avoid confrontation or being a dick for the sake of it. I mean if you knew the full story of someone, you could empathize with them, but nobody has seen the lives through someone else. Still society should try to pressure people in general to be healthy regardless of whether it's being fat, smoking, etc. Just make sure it's not actually causing them to self destruct because those kinds of people are often emotionally or psychologically vulnerable.
waffleb i have a question for you because i have never met someone who feels out of place with their natural sex/gender/self don't know the right word for it because it seems like no matter what people use in here it gets used against them in a counter-argument. I am genuinely curious about this. have you always felt like you wanted to be female/didn't feel right being male? do you take estrogen supplements or any other medication and have you undergone any procedures/operations to further your transition into becoming female?
this is probably a sensitive topic but what would you have done having lived 100 years ago where you weren't able to make a transition into a female (because of obvious lack of medical support)?
You don't have to answer these as I assume it was not easy to the make the decision you made. I am not trying to offend you in anyway although my ignorance on the subject may be offensive. It is something I have truly never given any thought on until this thread because it's not something I've ever had to think about/deal with in my life. I can't imagine not feeling like I was supposed to be a male, and how hard/scary it must be for you.
This is all very intriguing to me and I wish to learn more about it.
waffleb i have a question for you because i have never met someone who feels out of place with their natural sex/gender/self don't know the right word for it because it seems like no matter what people use in here it gets used against them in a counter-argument. I am genuinely curious about this. have you always felt like you wanted to be female/didn't feel right being male? do you take estrogen supplements or any other medication and have you undergone any procedures/operations to further your transition into becoming female?
this is probably a sensitive topic but what would you have done having lived 100 years ago where you weren't able to make a transition into a female (because of obvious lack of medical support)?
You don't have to answer these as I assume it was not easy to the make the decision you made. I am not trying to offend you in anyway although my ignorance on the subject may be offensive. It is something I have truly never given any thought on until this thread because it's not something I've ever had to think about/deal with in my life. I can't imagine not feeling like I was supposed to be a male, and how hard/scary it must be for you.
This is all very intriguing to me and I wish to learn more about it.
Before it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.
Before it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.
JustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
[quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9Af27M8.jpg[/img]
JustifyedBefore it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.
So when did you choose to be straight?
[quote=Justifyed]Before it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.[/quote]
So when did you choose to be straight?
hookyJustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
[quote=hooky][quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what[/quote]
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
JustifyedhookyJustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet
[quote=Justifyed][quote=hooky][quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what[/quote]
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.[/quote]
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet
JustifyedhookyJustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
That's not what you typed though. You said that people aren't born that way, when you said that they could right before.
[quote=Justifyed][quote=hooky][quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what[/quote]
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.[/quote]
That's not what you typed though. You said that people aren't born that way, when you said that they could right before.
mgibJustifyedhookyJustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet
I honestly don't care, I don't do anything with the tf2 community, I dont even play anymore lol.
[quote=mgib][quote=Justifyed][quote=hooky][quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what[/quote]
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.[/quote]
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet[/quote]
I honestly don't care, I don't do anything with the tf2 community, I dont even play anymore lol.
JustifyedBefore it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.
yeah time to lock this thread
[quote=Justifyed]Before it happens, I am prepared to be minus fragged.
MY OPINION, I think being Gay/Lesbian/Trans/Bi and whatever else there is, is a CHOICE. I don't believe god intended for a Man to love a Man or a Woman to love a woman. I am friends with people who are Gay/Les and everything, but that doesn't mean I support their choice. No one is born and as soon as they are out of the womb, they turn gay or lesbian. It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable, or it could be what they have felt when they were growing up. I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
Any derogatory comments or anything of the matter are accepted, just wanted to toss my 2 cents into the pool.[/quote]
yeah time to lock this thread
well. at least this thread gives you a good idea of the limits and boundaries you can push on a discussion/debate before some idiot takes it out of bounds and gets it locked :)
well. at least this thread gives you a good idea of the limits and boundaries you can push on a discussion/debate before some idiot takes it out of bounds and gets it locked :)
JustifyedmgibJustifyedhookyJustifyedIt could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...
JustifyedI don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.
what
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet
I honestly don't care, I don't do anything with the tf2 community, I dont even play anymore lol.
Then why bother p-
Fuck it, not gonna bother.
Edit: did I just post after a lock
[quote=Justifyed][quote=mgib][quote=Justifyed][quote=hooky][quote=Justifyed]It could be a disorder they are born with, which is completely understandable...[/quote]
[quote=Justifyed]I don't feel you are BORN that way, but that's just me.[/quote]
what[/quote]
Being born with a disease causing you to feel that way and being born gay with nothing wrong with you is completely different.[/quote]
just stop talking before you dig yourself the biggest hole on the planet[/quote]
I honestly don't care, I don't do anything with the tf2 community, I dont even play anymore lol.[/quote]
Then why bother p-
Fuck it, not gonna bother.
Edit: did I just post after a lock