seems like dota and other games are steadily overtaking sc2's viewership, pretty much what the title says. twitch has been front paging like 3 streams of sc2 but somehow dota still has more viewers :( i just hope that starcraft doesn't get choked out and drop below the radar because the level of production and commentators are so great for that game. any thoughts?
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is sc2 dying?
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seems like dota and other games are steadily overtaking sc2's viewership, pretty much what the title says. twitch has been front paging like 3 streams of sc2 but somehow dota still has more viewers :( i just hope that starcraft doesn't get choked out and drop below the radar because the level of production and commentators are so great for that game. any thoughts?
I don't think it's dying, just getting, I think the word is overrun? Dota 2 and LoL are somewhat able to just collect the viewers easily cause of how the game is played in my opinion. Now I'm not saying either game is shit or why one is "better". But in this gaming generation for PC, it's pretty much MOBA controlled I'd say. Thing about Dota 2 and LoL is that people understand it, heroes, and how it's played etc. more easily than StarCraft 2. The concept of having a cool character with spells and items with a team is enough to gain people more than a single person commanding and controlling units to defeat an enemy.
Although SC2 does have great production and commentators, it's what viewers want to follow more is the thing, it's not that easy to follow StarCraft 2 in maybe around the first 3 games you see, but in Dota 2 and LoL you can understand it in maybe within 1-2 games.
My final thought is that, I hope SC2 is NOT dying. It's a game that has incredible eSports history. Unfortunately, I think that the game is "boring" to other people by now after a few years and that new things like Dota have much more exciting entertainment. I feel that Blizzard needs to put in more effort in finding a way or thinking more on how to change this. It's time to follow Valve's example.
I don't think it's dying, just getting, I think the word is overrun? Dota 2 and LoL are somewhat able to just collect the viewers easily cause of how the game is played in my opinion. Now I'm not saying either game is shit or why one is "better". But in this gaming generation for PC, it's pretty much MOBA controlled I'd say. Thing about Dota 2 and LoL is that people understand it, heroes, and how it's played etc. more easily than StarCraft 2. The concept of having a cool character with spells and items with a team is enough to gain people more than a single person commanding and controlling units to defeat an enemy.
Although SC2 does have great production and commentators, it's what viewers want to follow more is the thing, it's not that easy to follow StarCraft 2 in maybe around the first 3 games you see, but in Dota 2 and LoL you can understand it in maybe within 1-2 games.
My final thought is that, I hope SC2 is NOT dying. It's a game that has incredible eSports history. Unfortunately, I think that the game is "boring" to other people by now after a few years and that new things like Dota have much more exciting entertainment. I feel that Blizzard needs to put in more effort in finding a way or thinking more on how to change this. It's time to follow Valve's example.
Although SC2 does have great production and commentators, it's what viewers want to follow more is the thing, it's not that easy to follow StarCraft 2 in maybe around the first 3 games you see, but in Dota 2 and LoL you can understand it in maybe within 1-2 games.
My final thought is that, I hope SC2 is NOT dying. It's a game that has incredible eSports history. Unfortunately, I think that the game is "boring" to other people by now after a few years and that new things like Dota have much more exciting entertainment. I feel that Blizzard needs to put in more effort in finding a way or thinking more on how to change this. It's time to follow Valve's example.
Twitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die
Twitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die
Saltysally1seems like dota and other games are steadily overtaking sc2's viewership, pretty much what the title says. twitch has been front paging like 3 streams of sc2 but somehow dota still has more viewers :( i just hope that starcraft doesn't get choked out and drop below the radar because the level of production and commentators are so great for that game. any thoughts?
SC2 Dying? Maybe, but there will always be at least some form of a large starcraft community. Also highly doubt Starcraft will die in Korea.
[quote=Saltysally1]seems like dota and other games are steadily overtaking sc2's viewership, pretty much what the title says. twitch has been front paging like 3 streams of sc2 but somehow dota still has more viewers :( i just hope that starcraft doesn't get choked out and drop below the radar because the level of production and commentators are so great for that game. any thoughts?[/quote]
SC2 Dying? Maybe, but there will always be at least some form of a large starcraft community. Also highly doubt Starcraft will die in Korea.
SC2 Dying? Maybe, but there will always be at least some form of a large starcraft community. Also highly doubt Starcraft will die in Korea.
If I have a billion dollars and lose 10 million, am I going bankrupt?
If I have a billion dollars and lose 10 million, am I going bankrupt?
i have a friend who plays SC2 religiously and he is always telling me how the WCS was the worst thing to happen to starcraft and that it will kill the game because blizzard doesn't know how to run an esport.
i have a friend who plays SC2 religiously and he is always telling me how the WCS was the worst thing to happen to starcraft and that it will kill the game because blizzard doesn't know how to run an esport.
its definitely not getting any bigger, hots wasnt nearly as big of a hit as they wanted it to be
its definitely not getting any bigger, hots wasnt nearly as big of a hit as they wanted it to be
It's dead, prepare for the influx of koreans in TF2.
It's dead, prepare for the influx of koreans in TF2.
Id love to watch sc2 but I have no idea what the fuck's going on, I have basic understanding of dota and know a whole lot about lol so I can watch those games, but if the commentators go "WHAT A HUGE PLAY" I'm just sitting there wondering by who
Id love to watch sc2 but I have no idea what the fuck's going on, I have basic understanding of dota and know a whole lot about lol so I can watch those games, but if the commentators go "WHAT A HUGE PLAY" I'm just sitting there wondering by who
deliTwitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly
[quote=deli]Twitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die[/quote]
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die[/quote]
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly
Considering its South Koreas national sport, I seriously doubt it'll die until SC3 comes out
Considering its South Koreas national sport, I seriously doubt it'll die until SC3 comes out
Depends on what your definition of "dying" is.
They do seem to be losing stream viewers, but if you judge a game's status solely on stream viewers, then you have a much different opinion on what "dying" means than I do. I don't think TF2 is dead, but we get what...5k viewers at the most during the biggest matches in the game?
Personally, I've been watching less SC2 because it seems like new pros are constantly being cycled in so it's harder to really get into games when you don't know either of the players. (Also partly because I haven't seen DongRaeGu in any major tournaments in awhile.) On top of that, I don't enjoy watching mirror match-ups and anything with a Protoss player in it is bound to be a shitty game. Widow Mines also tremendously lowered stream-viewing fun.
Depends on what your definition of "dying" is.
They do seem to be losing stream viewers, but if you judge a game's status solely on stream viewers, then you have a much different opinion on what "dying" means than I do. I don't think TF2 is dead, but we get what...5k viewers at the most during the biggest matches in the game?
Personally, I've been watching less SC2 because it seems like new pros are constantly being cycled in so it's harder to really get into games when you don't know either of the players. (Also partly because I haven't seen DongRaeGu in any major tournaments in awhile.) On top of that, I don't enjoy watching mirror match-ups and anything with a Protoss player in it is bound to be a shitty game. Widow Mines also tremendously lowered stream-viewing fun.
They do seem to be losing stream viewers, but if you judge a game's status solely on stream viewers, then you have a much different opinion on what "dying" means than I do. I don't think TF2 is dead, but we get what...5k viewers at the most during the biggest matches in the game?
Personally, I've been watching less SC2 because it seems like new pros are constantly being cycled in so it's harder to really get into games when you don't know either of the players. (Also partly because I haven't seen DongRaeGu in any major tournaments in awhile.) On top of that, I don't enjoy watching mirror match-ups and anything with a Protoss player in it is bound to be a shitty game. Widow Mines also tremendously lowered stream-viewing fun.
thrasherConsidering its South Koreas national sport, I seriously doubt it'll die until SC3 comes out
Considering 90% of korean sc:bw players dislike sc2 and more people still play sc:bw in korea, that really isn't true at all.
The game isn't dying though, last WCS finals had 200K viewers across all streams. The viewership numbers haven't really been dropping at all, they just never made it to the point that dota and LoL made it to.
[quote=thrasher]Considering its South Koreas national sport, I seriously doubt it'll die until SC3 comes out[/quote]
Considering 90% of korean sc:bw players dislike sc2 and more people still play sc:bw in korea, that really isn't true at all.
The game isn't dying though, last WCS finals had 200K viewers across all streams. The viewership numbers haven't really been dropping at all, they just never made it to the point that dota and LoL made it to.
Considering 90% of korean sc:bw players dislike sc2 and more people still play sc:bw in korea, that really isn't true at all.
The game isn't dying though, last WCS finals had 200K viewers across all streams. The viewership numbers haven't really been dropping at all, they just never made it to the point that dota and LoL made it to.
It's not that they dislike SC2, they just prefer BW more. They play SC2 tho because that's where the money is... And as long as there is money the game will thrive
It's not that they dislike SC2, they just prefer BW more. They play SC2 tho because that's where the money is... And as long as there is money the game will thrive
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.
thrasherIt's not that they dislike SC2, they just prefer BW more. They play SC2 tho because that's where the money is... And as long as there is money the game will thrive
http://www.techinasia.com/korea-top-10-popular-pc-games-2013/
[quote=thrasher]It's not that they dislike SC2, they just prefer BW more. They play SC2 tho because that's where the money is... And as long as there is money the game will thrive[/quote]
http://www.techinasia.com/korea-top-10-popular-pc-games-2013/
http://www.techinasia.com/korea-top-10-popular-pc-games-2013/
I don't watch LoL/Dota at all. Compared to SC2 or in general, are they really exciting to watch?
I don't watch LoL/Dota at all. Compared to SC2 or in general, are they really exciting to watch?
marioShort answer: Yes.
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.
blizzard is working on their own dota clone, blizzard all-stars
[quote=mario]Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.[/quote]
blizzard is working on their own dota clone, blizzard all-stars
Long answer: HotS brought a lot less than was required to keep SC2 afloat for a long period of time. For years Blizzard has had the wrong mindset when it came to balancing and changing the game. They still haven't figured it out and likely will never figure it out. So yeah, SC2 will stick around for a few more years after the second expansion but it's already past it's prime. The numbers may not look too bad but this is just foresight for the future. Maybe Blizzard will cash in on LoL/Dota fans watching multiple Esports, but that's about it.[/quote]
blizzard is working on their own dota clone, blizzard all-stars
djcdeliTwitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly
yeah, even during large tournament events i've seen dota have more viewers and dota had no tourney's, i think that we are currently witnessing the end of an era :(
[quote=djc][quote=deli]Twitch is pretty susceptible on events like GTA V Realease, LoL World Championships, The International 3 etc. So imho twitch wont ever be a good source of information how the game is doing over time.
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die[/quote]
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly[/quote]
yeah, even during large tournament events i've seen dota have more viewers and dota had no tourney's, i think that we are currently witnessing the end of an era :(
And SC2 the community , sponsors behind it, amount of pro players, it will be really hard for that game to just simply die[/quote]
other games maintain their viewers during the big events, LoL still had its usual numbers during ti3 and the gta launch. sc2s numbers are not just tanking because of other shit, it's the only game on twitch that leaks viewers so badly[/quote]
yeah, even during large tournament events i've seen dota have more viewers and dota had no tourney's, i think that we are currently witnessing the end of an era :(
ScholarI don't watch LoL/Dota at all. Compared to SC2 or in general, are they really exciting to watch?
dota is really slow to start but the early game still has action, it's like a good porno really :P the buildup into the nut naw mean?
[quote=Scholar]I don't watch LoL/Dota at all. Compared to SC2 or in general, are they really exciting to watch?[/quote]
dota is really slow to start but the early game still has action, it's like a good porno really :P the buildup into the nut naw mean?
dota is really slow to start but the early game still has action, it's like a good porno really :P the buildup into the nut naw mean?
sc2 has been dead for a while now. the community is shit and the interesting members of the community (i.e combatex, destiny, idra) are moving on to other things or arent as involved as they used to be. its just not fun to watch anymore.
sc2 has been dead for a while now. the community is shit and the interesting members of the community (i.e combatex, destiny, idra) are moving on to other things or arent as involved as they used to be. its just not fun to watch anymore.
Sc2 is fine, they have soooo much content, when WCS is running you have 24/7 content. Prize pots have actually gone up slightly recently. MLG and some other orgs have seemingly discovered that you can stream 24/7 as well - there's always at least a few hundred people tuned into reruns at any given time, sometimes more (depends on if there's anything else on).
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.
Sc2 is fine, they have soooo much content, when WCS is running you have 24/7 content. Prize pots have actually gone up slightly recently. MLG and some other orgs have seemingly discovered that you can stream 24/7 as well - there's always at least a few hundred people tuned into reruns at any given time, sometimes more (depends on if there's anything else on).
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.
sc2 is dead in korea, more players than people in audience at proleague events.
sc2 is dead in korea, more players than people in audience at proleague events.
MarxistSc2 is fine, they have soooo much content, when WCS is running you have 24/7 content. Prize pots have actually gone up slightly recently. MLG and some other orgs have seemingly discovered that you can stream 24/7 as well - there's always at least a few hundred people tuned into reruns at any given time, sometimes more (depends on if there's anything else on).
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.
MLG dropped SC2.
[quote=Marxist]Sc2 is fine, they have soooo much content, when WCS is running you have 24/7 content. Prize pots have actually gone up slightly recently. MLG and some other orgs have seemingly discovered that you can stream 24/7 as well - there's always at least a few hundred people tuned into reruns at any given time, sometimes more (depends on if there's anything else on).
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.[/quote]
MLG dropped SC2.
Sc2's numbers are weak this week because it's Korean Thanksgiving so there's literally nothing going to be happening for a few days besides WCSEU.
I *can* tell you that attendance is really not that high day to day for the team leagues and sometimes for individuals. For a while there Innovation was drawing huge crowds, but then that kinda just fell away as he starting losing a bunch.[/quote]
MLG dropped SC2.
KillingIf I have a billion dollars and lose 10 million, am I going bankrupt?
dying=/=dead
losing money=/=bankrupt
That being said, I do think the SC2 scene is getting less popular. So I guess you could say it's dying. Like Killing stated, it still has a ton of players though.
downpoursc2 isnt dying but its not really getting bigger.
It's getting smaller.
[quote=Killing]If I have a billion dollars and lose 10 million, am I going bankrupt?[/quote] dying=/=dead
losing money=/=bankrupt
That being said, I do think the SC2 scene is getting less popular. So I guess you could say it's dying. Like Killing stated, it still has a ton of players though.
[quote=downpour]sc2 isnt dying but its not really getting bigger.[/quote] It's getting smaller.
losing money=/=bankrupt
That being said, I do think the SC2 scene is getting less popular. So I guess you could say it's dying. Like Killing stated, it still has a ton of players though.
[quote=downpour]sc2 isnt dying but its not really getting bigger.[/quote] It's getting smaller.
OOVOOVsc2 is dead in korea, more players than people in audience at proleague events.
This is true. SC1 aka Brood War was very popular in Korea thanks to everyone playing it "for free" in LAN cafes. SC2 though is much less popular in Korea than everyone thinks.
In general the first expansion just didn't change enough. They put a lot into the single-player campaign and improved custom map support and the editor slightly but multiplayer melee barely changed. Of the 6 new units only two are regularly used. The others kind of got overly nerfed during the expansion's beta and aren't very exciting anyway
Sure there are tiny adjustments in strategy but many of the flaws players & spectators pointed out are still there. It's not that the game got worse, it's just that many thought the expansion would improve a lot of things similar to how the WC3:TFT and SC:BW expansions did. They're left disappointed
LoL and Dota stealing all the views and some casters & players doesn't help
[quote=OOVOOV]sc2 is dead in korea, more players than people in audience at proleague events.[/quote]
This is true. SC1 aka Brood War was very popular in Korea thanks to everyone playing it "for free" in LAN cafes. SC2 though is [i]much[/i] less popular in Korea than everyone thinks.
In general the first expansion just didn't change enough. They put a lot into the single-player campaign and improved custom map support and the editor slightly but multiplayer melee barely changed. Of the 6 new units only two are regularly used. The others kind of got overly nerfed during the expansion's beta and aren't very exciting anyway
Sure there are tiny adjustments in strategy but many of the flaws players & spectators pointed out are still there. It's not that the game got worse, it's just that many thought the expansion would improve a lot of things similar to how the WC3:TFT and SC:BW expansions did. They're left disappointed
LoL and Dota stealing all the views and some casters & players doesn't help
This is true. SC1 aka Brood War was very popular in Korea thanks to everyone playing it "for free" in LAN cafes. SC2 though is [i]much[/i] less popular in Korea than everyone thinks.
In general the first expansion just didn't change enough. They put a lot into the single-player campaign and improved custom map support and the editor slightly but multiplayer melee barely changed. Of the 6 new units only two are regularly used. The others kind of got overly nerfed during the expansion's beta and aren't very exciting anyway
Sure there are tiny adjustments in strategy but many of the flaws players & spectators pointed out are still there. It's not that the game got worse, it's just that many thought the expansion would improve a lot of things similar to how the WC3:TFT and SC:BW expansions did. They're left disappointed
LoL and Dota stealing all the views and some casters & players doesn't help
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