Client still isn't fixed, by the way.

Will it get fixed tonight? And can we get an honest answer?

preferably before our scheduled match times...

Yeah that's pretty much what I meant. There's no reason a community league couldn't eventually afford that eXpense. Throw in travel costs for the players and a community run league could still raise enough capital in a few seasons to have a LAN finals. Especially if it's prioritized more over developing Prize Money.

TL;DR BUT I THOUGHT IT INFORMATIVE, SO I'M SHARING

?Quindali: can we please get an honest update on whether or not client is getting fixed
Killing in the Name #esea: you think I'm witholding information?
?Quindali: i understand you're not in control of the software but if it's not getting fixed, we should know that now
?Quindali: it's not as if the only news that can be released is "it's still not working"
?Quindali: a status update is just that, an update
?Quindali: people have other things to do than wait around until two hours before match time to hear that it's still broken and we should somehow reschedule again and that it "should be working by tomorrow"
Killing in the Name #esea: the second I know more
Killing in the Name #esea: I'll tell you
Killing in the Name #esea: unless you think I'm lying about what I kno
Killing in the Name #esea: w
Killing in the Name #esea: I'm not sure what you wanted me to tell you
?Quindali: it's not about what you know or don't know it's about sharing what you know
?Quindali: right now, it's still not fixed, correct?
Killing in the Name #esea: exactly
Killing in the Name #esea: so I asked
Killing in the Name #esea: do you think I'm withholding information
Killing in the Name #esea: that would be not telling you what I know
?Quindali: then i guess yeah
?Quindali: because there hasn't been any update on esea or tf.tv, it's just all community members spectating "still broken"
Killing in the Name #esea: so you think that's it's a good idea on my part to tell everyone that it'll be fixed tommorow morning when I have no idea
?Quindali: no, that's my point
?Quindali: right now you know that it is STILL broken i'm saying you should be giving us status updates
?Quindali: rather than sitting in silence and having everyone just ask the same question "what's going on"
Killing in the Name #esea: what makes you think I have any status updates
?Quindali: ... if it's not fixed
?Quindali: then it's still broken
?Quindali: and that in itself is a status
?Quindali: you should update us with that, considering the last we heard was "it will be fixed by tomorrow night"
Killing in the Name #esea: people said it's still broken
Killing in the Name #esea: it's still broken i guess
Killing in the Name #esea: I have no information
Killing in the Name #esea: I give updates when I have information you do'n
Killing in the Name #esea: t
?Quindali: and who exactly has information then
Killing in the Name #esea: who knows
?Quindali: who is responsible for updating the client
Killing in the Name #esea: I get updates
?Quindali: i don't know, i guess maybe i thought you would since you're an admin and all
Killing in the Name #esea: I relay them to tftv
Killing in the Name #esea: so it's quite clear that your original assumption taht I know somethign that I'm not sharing is clearly wrong
Killing in the Name #esea: so what would you have me do?
?Quindali: no, i said that you're not communicating anything at all
?Quindali: that you're sitting in silence
Killing in the Name #esea: there's no updates
Killing in the Name #esea: I have no information
Killing in the Name #esea: that you don't
?Quindali: and apparently no information on where we can get information
Killing in the Name #esea: I am where you can get information
?Quindali: so your answer to me, as an admin, is basically fuck off and wait
Killing in the Name #esea: it's not fuck off and wait
Killing in the Name #esea: it's I have no new information
?Quindali: who is responsibile for updating the client?
?Quindali: is it even being worked on right now?
Killing in the Name #esea: I would assume so
Killing in the Name #esea: I'm not part of the client team
?Quindali: ...... have no not considered asking them for an update on their progress
Killing in the Name #esea: I don't have contact with them
Killing in the Name #esea: I have contact with people who have contact with them
?Quindali: alright, and when was the last time you heard from them then
Killing in the Name #esea: last night
Killing in the Name #esea: I just got home and was gonna make some calls
?Quindali: well then i guess i look forward to whatever you find out
?Quindali: it'd be nice if we could hear earlier than an hour or two before our scheduled matches
Killing in the Name #esea: you hear
Killing in the Name #esea: the second I find out
Killing in the Name #esea: literally
?Quindali: and at this point i don't think it's even possible to reschedule anymore because no servers are available
Killing in the Name #esea: the second I find out
Killing in the Name #esea: it's the first thing I do
?Quindali: i understand that, my point is i think you should still explain this to the community on your own, rather than waiting for individuals to seek you out
Killing in the Name #esea: explain what?
?Quindali: you do have information-- the fact that 1) you're not in touch with the people who update the client
?Quindali: 2) that the last time you heard was still last night and there's no new information
?Quindali: 3) that yuo're contacting them now
?Quindali: people would appreciate that knowledge, and the fact that you're ignorant in the situation and also trying to do something abotu it
Killing in the Name #esea: 1) that has nothing to do with anything
Killing in the Name #esea: 2) Saying there's no new information isn't what people care about
Killing in the Name #esea: 3) Just becuase I'm contacting them doesn't mean I'm about to get info
?Quindali: if that's your opinion, that's fine i guess
Killing in the Name #esea: I don't find it neccesary for me to defend my ignorace
?Quindali: but here i am, a community member, and i care about all those things
Killing in the Name #esea: you want to hate me more than hitler
Killing in the Name #esea: doesn't change anythign
Killing in the Name #esea: but I'm not sure why you care about them
?Quindali: it's not about hating you it's about the principle that you are an admin and that means should
Killing in the Name #esea: what does it change?
?Quindali: it shows that you're trying, it explains the situation, and it gives everyone contact with a voice of authority and control
?Quindali: rather than us all circle jerking each other on forums repeating the same shit
Killing in the Name #esea: All it really does is save my ass
?Quindali: again, here i am telling you it does more than that
?Quindali: but if you're not going to be receptive to what someone is suggesting then that's fine
?Quindali: anyways, thanks for clarification i've gtg to work now
?Quindali: fingers crossed for good news i guess
Killing in the Name #esea: I'm not not being receptive
Killing in the Name #esea: I'm just curious
Killing in the Name #esea: because I don't think it makes sense
?Quindali: then it doesn't make sense, to you. me saying that it does isn't going to change anything
?Quindali: thanks for info, peace
Killing in the Name #esea: peace

Well reading that post was a waste of my time.

Killing needs to hit enter after he finishes words more often.

basically killing is relaying all the information that he gets and doesn't have access to any more direct information, nothing special

i mean sure KILLING IS A FAGGOT but idk why everybody is making him out to be some sort of devil when it's obviously not in his hands

look at it this way, since he has no control over it and shitloads of people are on his ass about it why wouldn't he be pissy about having to respond to the same questions over and over and over again? i mean that sort of makes sense to me at least, sure he's a 'professional' but still a person in the end (that's debatable ahehehe), it'd only be natural to get tired of responding to everything long-form and start making short answers that aren't clear and seem snide when they aren't necessarily intended to be.

I think most of us are upset at ESEA and the other higher-ups rather than Killing. Like you said, Killing isn't responsible for the client being broken and while information would be good on a consistent basis, it means nothing if nobody else cares enough to tell him information. But please just get it fucking fixed.

The face of something is sometimes more important than what goes on behind it. That's what customer service is. As people already stated, it's one thing to claim to know when things will be resolved, but it's another to give a duration and repeatedly not hold to it. Sure, Killing has gotten comfortable with the community so he talks to us in sarcastic tones, but there's a time and place for that. People are genuinely upset *as they should be* and the "face" of ESEA isn't representing it any better than what's behind it.

The honest and courteous thing "they" should have done was posted about this earlier. Even if they had to delay the 1st week of matches out a bit more, it would have at least given the community awareness as to what is going on and why. But instead, schedules have been crammed and the only answers we have received in regards to this issue are "nope" and "tomorrow". I agree. "Nope", it won't be fixed "tomorrow".

This is the proper place to say this:
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=525091&find_comment_number=30#n30

TL;DR = Killing is literally Hitler.

ESEA Paladin Setup 12.2 MB

what i take from that is that Quindali is an asshole...

that was my point, everyone would be less frustrated and he wouldn't have to deal with as much shit if he would just post regularly on his own rather than waiting for us to all angrily ask him individually.

edit: i personally didn't know he doesn't have contact with people in charge of the client. I assumed he would be in the know, since he's the admin of the league for which it is developed. it's not about saying "idk, client still broken" every hour but rather explaining the situation to us so that we all have a better understanding and have a better idea of what to expect

There are two possibilities for the client: fixed or not fixed.

We should assume that if Killing hasn't said anything about it being fixed, then it's not fixed. Why keep asking him if it's fixed yet? I'm sure he'll let as know as soon as it is. I mean, what's he going to do? Post threads on the forum saying "Oh hey guys, here's my hourly update- it's not fixed yet" or "Update! It's half fixed"? I don't think any of us know exactly what kind of communication Killing has with the client developer. Giving a specific time deadline for a piece of software to be fixed is usually useless. All we can do is relay our concerns to ESEA about them being irresponsible.

Killing not giving us normal updates on it is completely logical. Why wouldn't we want to hear "The client is still getting fixed" 24 times a day?

Well shit can't get much worse at this point so I'd love to hear more about what you just said. What could I have said that would make you happier? The nope was in reference to people saying they wanted to play off client, that's something I don't joke around about. The tomorrow was what I was told. So, What could I have said that would make you happier?

Yeah, he's just there to usher us into our matches and make sure we don't have any confusion.

And mge people all the time.

Just change your attitude a bit, I get it that you are familiar and feel confortable with the community, but as someone else said there is a time and place for joking around or being sarcastic / not serious. I have worked and experienced with costumer service enought to know your attitude (at least in this case) would get you off the job in a couple of days.

YOu have to put yourself in the shoes of people you are providing a service to, shit I have full Internet + TV + Phone for less than some of you are paying ESEA monthly and if anyone from my ISP were to treat me this way shit would get serious real fast, same for me with my clients.

People are paying for a service, albeit it's entertainment or fun don't joke around with people's money and time, ETF2L is a community league and I never saw anything this unprofessional happen over here (and by this Im talking about the whole situation not only you).

As I said, I don't care to save my own ass. I work for ESEA so unless I can say something that makes you happier in terms of ESEA rather than myself, I'm not really interested in saying it.

I haven't joked around about anything.

if there is a problem, it is never a good idea to get mad at someone who has nothing to do with the problem and has no ability to fix the problem.

in this situation, it sounds like Killing has nothing to do with the client being broken nor does he have anything to do with solving/fixing the problem.

there is a valid reason to be upset with ESEA -- but being upset with Killing for not communicating better is a bit iffy. exactly what is he supposed to communicate if he has no additional information?

• if he said he "had no update" -- people would be all over him.
  
• if he gave the same update he gave yesterday -- people would be all over him.
  
• if he stays quiet because he has no update to share -- people would be all over him.

it is a lose-lose situation for him no matter what he says; he is at the mercy of those who are trying to work on and fix the problem.

I think everyone is aware that you're not at fault for the client not being updated. You are however our representative at ESEA and as much as I appreciate the posts saying "Matches are fucked tonight, sorry", Finding out a little earlier on would be really really nice for a LOT of people. Do we know about tonight yet? Monday it was "tomorrow." Yesterday it was "tomorrow." What is it today? I don't understand why there isn't a better timeframe or more frequent updates on this.

when it comes to client (and most situations), killing is just a messenger

sometimes hes more sarcastic than youd like him to be

hes not deliberately deceptive

oh well

I'm just going with assuming it's broken unless told otherwise at this point

Can we just push everything back one week? If the client isn't gonna be fixed today then the schedules are going to be totally fucked (more than they already are).

If we just push everything back a week it'll give ESEA a chance to get the client fixed, matches will be scheduled without any problems, and we won't have to bug killing and kalkin about it.

What I'm saying is that you could have been a lot more upfront and professional from the begining of this whole thing, obviously this got out of hand now but a huge part of the uproar could have been avoided or at least toned down if the whole situation was clear from the begining, and despite not having anything to do with the client you play the central part there since you are the "face" of ESEA.

If Killing is just a so called "messenger," why doesn't he send a message to who ever the hell he's talking to that ESEA's paying customers are pretty pissed. Come on, this isn't a one way street.