I think platinum is trying to say that LAN environment is the only enjoyable aspect of comp tf2 for him. It's true for a lot of players. LAN isn't just to go meet your teammates IRL, it creates an even playing field. The game changes a lot on 0 ping, and the environment makes the competition much more intense. You'd have to play on it to understand I guess. I think he's also trying to say that iT are a bunch of nerds and the only reason he loses to them is because they put more time in? That was really mean of him.
Mix^
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
I think platinum is trying to say that LAN environment is the only enjoyable aspect of comp tf2 for him. It's true for a lot of players. LAN isn't just to go meet your teammates IRL, it creates an even playing field. The game changes a lot on 0 ping, and the environment makes the competition much more intense. You'd have to play on it to understand I guess. I think he's also trying to say that iT are a bunch of nerds and the only reason he loses to them is because they put more time in? That was really mean of him.
angel1Invite players are by far the most experienced people in this game.
https://d1fj4sro0cm5nu.cloudfront.net/global/images/teams/51134.9.jpg
Clearly.
[quote=angel1]Invite players are by far the most experienced people in this game.[/quote]
[img]https://d1fj4sro0cm5nu.cloudfront.net/global/images/teams/51134.9.jpg[/img]
Clearly.
[img]https://d1fj4sro0cm5nu.cloudfront.net/global/images/teams/51134.9.jpg[/img]
Clearly.
DISCLAIMER: I have never played in ESEA, CEVO, IGL, or ETF2L.
First, let's temporarily ignore the Bitcoin/Malware fiasco.
STAYING WITH ESEA
This is the easy option. The community does not have to undergo the very intensive and risky process of switching leagues. This option gives us what we already have: ESEA stats, ESEA servers, ESEA admins, ESEA website/content, ESEA LAN, ESEA prizes, and ESEA client. Whether these are good or bad for us is relative to other leagues and is going to primarily be a matter of subjective opinion, but will have objective results.
Choosing this option should make us expect more of the same. These things (and therefore the quality of ESEA) could change, but we should not expect it (again, Bitcoin/Malware incident not included for now).
CHANGING LEAGUES
This is the difficult option. It takes a lot of work to successfully transfer leagues, and it takes effort to accommodate the players. Choosing the league(s) presents us with multiple options, the most prominent being CEVO, UGC, and ETF2L. All of these options have pros and cons that were briefly examined in this thread. None of these options are currently objectively better than ESEA, and will most likely require changes to accommodate the new playerbase, which are factors that make this option risky regarding the future of NA TF2, no matter which league(s) we choose.
The good news is that it seems CEVO/ETF2L/UGC are willing to work with us, and this means these leagues could potentially be better than ESEA. What these leagues lack in comparison to ESEA (including LAN and competition) comes down to resources and establishment. It is possible for these leagues to eventually offer everything ESEA has and more, but will they? How much time, money, and effort will it take, and if and when it is accomplished, will it have been worth the possible negative consequences to the NA TF2 scene in the meanwhile?
BITCOIN MINING AND MALWARE
The other side of this story that I have ignored so far is the aforementioned Bitcoin/Malware incident concerning the ESEA client. We should seriously consider whether or not ESEA will continue abusing its customers through its client, such as it has done with mining bitcoins and failing to completely uninstall. Right now, there is no clear evidence that the client's complete access to your computer was used maliciously other than to mine for Bitcoins, but we should consider if such a thing is even possible, and if it is, whether or not ESEA is likely to do so.
[b]DISCLAIMER:[/b] I have never played in ESEA, CEVO, IGL, or ETF2L.
First, let's temporarily ignore the Bitcoin/Malware fiasco.
[b]STAYING WITH ESEA[/b]
This is the easy option. The community does not have to undergo the very intensive and risky process of switching leagues. This option gives us what we already have: ESEA stats, ESEA servers, ESEA admins, ESEA website/content, ESEA LAN, ESEA prizes, and ESEA client. Whether these are good or bad for us is [b]relative[/b] to other leagues and is going to primarily be a matter of subjective opinion, but will have objective results.
Choosing this option should make us expect [b]more of the same.[/b] These things (and therefore the quality of ESEA) could change, but we should not expect it (again, Bitcoin/Malware incident not included for now).
[b]CHANGING LEAGUES[/b]
This is the difficult option. It takes a lot of work to successfully transfer leagues, and it takes effort to accommodate the players. Choosing the league(s) presents us with multiple options, the most prominent being CEVO, UGC, and ETF2L. All of these options have pros and cons that were briefly examined [url=http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14029-pros-and-cons-of-na-league-choices]in this thread.[/url] None of these options are currently objectively better than ESEA, and will most likely require changes to accommodate the new playerbase, which are factors that make this option [b]risky[/b] regarding the future of NA TF2, no matter which league(s) we choose.
The good news is that it seems CEVO/ETF2L/UGC are willing to work with us, and this means these leagues could [b]potentially[/b] be better than ESEA. What these leagues lack in comparison to ESEA (including LAN and competition) comes down to resources and establishment. It is possible for these leagues to eventually offer everything ESEA has and more, but will they? How much time, money, and effort will it take, and if and when it is accomplished, will it have been worth the possible negative consequences to the NA TF2 scene in the meanwhile?
[b]BITCOIN MINING AND MALWARE[/b]
The other side of this story that I have ignored so far is the aforementioned Bitcoin/Malware incident concerning the ESEA client. We should seriously consider whether or not ESEA will continue [b]abusing its customers through its client,[/b] such as it has done with mining bitcoins and failing to completely uninstall. Right now, there is no clear evidence that the client's complete access to your computer was used maliciously other than to mine for Bitcoins, but we should consider [b]if such a thing is even possible[/b], and if it is, whether or not ESEA is likely to do so.
First, let's temporarily ignore the Bitcoin/Malware fiasco.
[b]STAYING WITH ESEA[/b]
This is the easy option. The community does not have to undergo the very intensive and risky process of switching leagues. This option gives us what we already have: ESEA stats, ESEA servers, ESEA admins, ESEA website/content, ESEA LAN, ESEA prizes, and ESEA client. Whether these are good or bad for us is [b]relative[/b] to other leagues and is going to primarily be a matter of subjective opinion, but will have objective results.
Choosing this option should make us expect [b]more of the same.[/b] These things (and therefore the quality of ESEA) could change, but we should not expect it (again, Bitcoin/Malware incident not included for now).
[b]CHANGING LEAGUES[/b]
This is the difficult option. It takes a lot of work to successfully transfer leagues, and it takes effort to accommodate the players. Choosing the league(s) presents us with multiple options, the most prominent being CEVO, UGC, and ETF2L. All of these options have pros and cons that were briefly examined [url=http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14029-pros-and-cons-of-na-league-choices]in this thread.[/url] None of these options are currently objectively better than ESEA, and will most likely require changes to accommodate the new playerbase, which are factors that make this option [b]risky[/b] regarding the future of NA TF2, no matter which league(s) we choose.
The good news is that it seems CEVO/ETF2L/UGC are willing to work with us, and this means these leagues could [b]potentially[/b] be better than ESEA. What these leagues lack in comparison to ESEA (including LAN and competition) comes down to resources and establishment. It is possible for these leagues to eventually offer everything ESEA has and more, but will they? How much time, money, and effort will it take, and if and when it is accomplished, will it have been worth the possible negative consequences to the NA TF2 scene in the meanwhile?
[b]BITCOIN MINING AND MALWARE[/b]
The other side of this story that I have ignored so far is the aforementioned Bitcoin/Malware incident concerning the ESEA client. We should seriously consider whether or not ESEA will continue [b]abusing its customers through its client,[/b] such as it has done with mining bitcoins and failing to completely uninstall. Right now, there is no clear evidence that the client's complete access to your computer was used maliciously other than to mine for Bitcoins, but we should consider [b]if such a thing is even possible[/b], and if it is, whether or not ESEA is likely to do so.
To be fair to platinum, the only reason I tried to get good in the first place was LAN.
I don't care if this is selfish, but the only reason I didn't play on any high level teams is because I would only put in the time for a team that was a shoe-in for LAN. I am just not willing to put in actual hours of practice if there is either no incentive (low invite) or a marginal risk of not making lan (medium invite).
I don't know about you guys but everyone has different lives and incentives, so to complain about others people's incentives is useless. My schedule was not open all day like some of the players in this game, and there is nothing wrong with either side, it's just the way it is. Like platinum, I was busy during most of the day and night, so playing TF2 for me was just a fun couple of hours before bed. I am simply not willing to succumb to all of the invite drama and other BS if the payoff is something like a money prize. Anybody with a job knows that it would not be a wise time investment to get good enough to be the best and then accept a money pot. Competition is the main reason I play, and playing at LAN is similar to playing on the big baseball diamond, the center tennis court, the center dodgeball court, etc. Beating someone on the big stage is infinitely more fulfilling than on a typical game / match / whatever. That is why LAN is important.
I am spewing out useless facts with my post, let me post something to summarize my thoughts:
Everyone plays for different reasons. Some people play for LAN, some for money, some for fun competition. The TOP players of the game are more skewed towards LAN than other tiers of players, so by removing LAN, you are removing the incentive for those players.
This is the longest post I have ever made for this forum, wow.
To be fair to platinum, the only reason I tried to get good in the first place was LAN.
I don't care if this is selfish, but the only reason I didn't play on any high level teams is because I would only put in the time for a team that was a shoe-in for LAN. I am just not willing to put in actual hours of practice if there is either no incentive (low invite) or a marginal risk of not making lan (medium invite).
I don't know about you guys but everyone has different lives and incentives, so to complain about others people's incentives is useless. My schedule was not open all day like some of the players in this game, and there is nothing wrong with either side, it's just the way it is. Like platinum, I was busy during most of the day and night, so playing TF2 for me was just a fun couple of hours before bed. I am simply not willing to succumb to all of the invite drama and other BS if the payoff is something like a money prize. Anybody with a job knows that it would not be a wise time investment to get good enough to be the best and then accept a money pot. Competition is the main reason I play, and playing at LAN is similar to playing on the big baseball diamond, the center tennis court, the center dodgeball court, etc. Beating someone on the big stage is infinitely more fulfilling than on a typical game / match / whatever. That is why LAN is important.
I am spewing out useless facts with my post, let me post something to summarize my thoughts:
Everyone plays for different reasons. Some people play for LAN, some for money, some for fun competition. The TOP players of the game are more skewed towards LAN than other tiers of players, so by removing LAN, you are removing the incentive for those players.
This is the longest post I have ever made for this forum, wow.
I don't care if this is selfish, but the only reason I didn't play on any high level teams is because I would only put in the time for a team that was a shoe-in for LAN. I am just not willing to put in actual hours of practice if there is either no incentive (low invite) or a marginal risk of not making lan (medium invite).
I don't know about you guys but everyone has different lives and incentives, so to complain about others people's incentives is useless. My schedule was not open all day like some of the players in this game, and there is nothing wrong with either side, it's just the way it is. Like platinum, I was busy during most of the day and night, so playing TF2 for me was just a fun couple of hours before bed. I am simply not willing to succumb to all of the invite drama and other BS if the payoff is something like a money prize. Anybody with a job knows that it would not be a wise time investment to get good enough to be the best and then accept a money pot. Competition is the main reason I play, and playing at LAN is similar to playing on the big baseball diamond, the center tennis court, the center dodgeball court, etc. Beating someone on the big stage is infinitely more fulfilling than on a typical game / match / whatever. That is why LAN is important.
I am spewing out useless facts with my post, let me post something to summarize my thoughts:
Everyone plays for different reasons. Some people play for LAN, some for money, some for fun competition. The TOP players of the game are more skewed towards LAN than other tiers of players, so by removing LAN, you are removing the incentive for those players.
This is the longest post I have ever made for this forum, wow.
Yz50: Did you see that post by controlope? It was bold.
Yz50: Did you see that post by controlope? It was bold.
heerotf2's only ever been as good as its forums have been
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........
rip heero :(
[quote=heero]tf2's only ever been as good as its forums have been
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........[/quote]
rip heero :(
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5a04xs.jpg[/IMG]
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........[/quote]
rip heero :(
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5a04xs.jpg[/IMG]
Platinum-snip-Merchant-snip-Platinum-snip-
To summerize what you are saying, at least as I undertand it:
*iT plays TF2 a lot because they enjoy it and it doesn't interfear in their life.
*You however love TF2 but have to spend more time with your job.
*You find most matches boring because you will likely win them.
*You feel like LAN is a greater reward then prize money because matches there are lag free and all againt the other top 3 teams.
*Online games over smaller prize pots don't appeal to you.
Now CEVO seems to be a good alternative for ESEA and they seem intersted in having league fees to fund a pot and potentially a LAN piggybacking off of a existing one. Would you consider that adaquete?
Edit: Not sure why I am being -fragged. If you disagree then why?
[quote=Platinum]-snip-[quote=Merchant]-snip-[quote=Platinum]-snip-[/quote][/quote][/quote]
To summerize what you are saying, at least as I undertand it:
*iT plays TF2 a lot because they enjoy it and it doesn't interfear in their life.
*You however love TF2 but have to spend more time with your job.
*You find most matches boring because you will likely win them.
*You feel like LAN is a greater reward then prize money because matches there are lag free and all againt the other top 3 teams.
*Online games over smaller prize pots don't appeal to you.
Now CEVO seems to be a good alternative for ESEA and they seem intersted in having league fees to fund a pot and potentially a LAN piggybacking off of a existing one. Would you consider that adaquete?
Edit: Not sure why I am being -fragged. If you disagree then why?
To summerize what you are saying, at least as I undertand it:
*iT plays TF2 a lot because they enjoy it and it doesn't interfear in their life.
*You however love TF2 but have to spend more time with your job.
*You find most matches boring because you will likely win them.
*You feel like LAN is a greater reward then prize money because matches there are lag free and all againt the other top 3 teams.
*Online games over smaller prize pots don't appeal to you.
Now CEVO seems to be a good alternative for ESEA and they seem intersted in having league fees to fund a pot and potentially a LAN piggybacking off of a existing one. Would you consider that adaquete?
Edit: Not sure why I am being -fragged. If you disagree then why?
I bet platinum keeps playing if you guys change leagues.
I bet platinum keeps playing if you guys change leagues.
Goat_heerotf2's only ever been as good as its forums have beenrip Chad :(
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5a04xs.jpg[/IMG]
(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)
[quote=Goat_][quote=heero]tf2's only ever been as good as its forums have been
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........[/quote]
rip Chad :(
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5a04xs.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)
gotfrag was amazing
natf2 was decent
tftv....... well........[/quote]
rip Chad :(
[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/5a04xs.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)
Saber(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)
Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.
[quote=Saber]
(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)[/quote]
Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.
(that's not chad)
(that's heero)
(hero is hero)[/quote]
Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.
pine_beetleIt's very important for a competitive league to induce competition, this is why everyone flocked to esea in the first place. It's why esea has been by far the most competitive league worldwide year after year. Euros getting there shitstomped by the Americans at I46 was the direct catalyst to their success at I49. It's fine to have shitty leagues for everyone but it's also important to create an environment to give players who put the time in something to motivate them to be the best they can be. Europeans are fortunate to have a lot of lans they can go to, we don't have that luxury.
True statements, nice said.
[quote=pine_beetle]It's very important for a competitive league to induce competition, this is why everyone flocked to esea in the first place. It's why esea has been by far the most competitive league worldwide year after year. Euros getting there shitstomped by the Americans at I46 was the direct catalyst to their success at I49. It's fine to have shitty leagues for everyone but it's also important to create an environment to give players who put the time in something to motivate them to be the best they can be. Europeans are fortunate to have a lot of lans they can go to, we don't have that luxury.[/quote]
True statements, nice said.
True statements, nice said.
I talked to harb once in TFP and he thought I was good. Now he is dropping skittles like my bitch.
Gotta get that skittle. Pingles please help.
I talked to harb once in TFP and he thought I was good. Now he is dropping skittles like my bitch.
Gotta get that skittle. Pingles please help.
Gotta get that skittle. Pingles please help.
Goat_Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.
So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.
[quote=Goat_]Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.[/quote]
So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.
So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.
SolidSpeerlaiyeGoat_Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.
It wasn't Enigma, Enigma was asleep for 4 hours during that
[quote=SolidSpeerlaiye][quote=Goat_]Not sure what all those brackets are for but thanks for letting me know.[/quote]
So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.[/quote]
It wasn't Enigma, Enigma was asleep for 4 hours during that
So Enigma still isn't done going all apeshit on people and banning them for no reason? Good to know.[/quote]
It wasn't Enigma, Enigma was asleep for 4 hours during that
supporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community.
supporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community.
because esea definitely ISN'T killing tf2 right now with all it's bullshit.
because esea definitely ISN'T killing tf2 right now with all it's bullshit.
ikpuresupporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community.
cool story bro
[quote=ikpure]supporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community. [/quote]
cool story bro
cool story bro
jerryjigglerWHO DELETED THE PSA THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i probably assume enigma deleted his own thread as it had 73 minus downvotes. So he doesnt want more ppl to think his action was unfavourbly thus he deleted his own thread
[quote=jerryjiggler]WHO DELETED THE PSA THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]
i probably assume enigma deleted his own thread as it had 73 minus downvotes. So he doesnt want more ppl to think his action was unfavourbly thus he deleted his own thread
i probably assume enigma deleted his own thread as it had 73 minus downvotes. So he doesnt want more ppl to think his action was unfavourbly thus he deleted his own thread
ikpuresupporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community.
id rather fragment the comp scene and build a solid league from near scratch than keep feeding money to the same busted system we've been tied to
[quote=ikpure]supporting esea now and I will still be supporting them next season and every season after that... dividing the comp scene over this stupid protest you guys have going on will probably kill the competitive tf2 community.[/quote]
id rather fragment the comp scene and build a solid league from near scratch than keep feeding money to the same busted system we've been tied to
id rather fragment the comp scene and build a solid league from near scratch than keep feeding money to the same busted system we've been tied to
cabinbecause esea definitely ISN'T killing tf2 right now with all it's bullshit.
give them a chance to clean up their act, they already suffered consequences for what happened and in order to prevent those consequences from getting any worse they're gonna have to clean their mess up. I'm not stopping anyone from supporting cevo but cevo will take years to become what esea already has and it will kill comp tf2 in the process. Support from a small tf2 community isn't going to make a big difference to cevo anyway. Don't let anger sway you decision, an angry mind is a narrow mind. If you haven't personally been effected by the recent esea drama then I suggest you stop bandwagoning and come up with your own reason to despise esea.
[quote=cabin]because esea definitely ISN'T killing tf2 right now with all it's bullshit.[/quote]
give them a chance to clean up their act, they already suffered consequences for what happened and in order to prevent those consequences from getting any worse they're gonna have to clean their mess up. I'm not stopping anyone from supporting cevo but cevo will take years to become what esea already has and it will kill comp tf2 in the process. Support from a small tf2 community isn't going to make a big difference to cevo anyway. Don't let anger sway you decision, an angry mind is a narrow mind. If you haven't personally been effected by the recent esea drama then I suggest you stop bandwagoning and come up with your own reason to despise esea.
give them a chance to clean up their act, they already suffered consequences for what happened and in order to prevent those consequences from getting any worse they're gonna have to clean their mess up. I'm not stopping anyone from supporting cevo but cevo will take years to become what esea already has and it will kill comp tf2 in the process. Support from a small tf2 community isn't going to make a big difference to cevo anyway. Don't let anger sway you decision, an angry mind is a narrow mind. If you haven't personally been effected by the recent esea drama then I suggest you stop bandwagoning and come up with your own reason to despise esea.
ikpureIf you haven't personally been effected by the recent esea drama then I suggest you stop bandwagoning and come up with your own reason to despise esea.
I personally am not angry with ESEA as it has not affected me, however I understand that anyone who used the client is mad. If ESEA had been more supportive of the TF2 community in the past instead of being such tight asses about rules like match scheduling then maybe people would've been more likely to not care but if you put in malware into every single one of your clients computers then do you not think they are justified in leaving?
You say personally effect which is basically every american using ESEA because
Even if your computer wasn't accessed it would still be motivation to leave. For example if it was found that your bank was stealing its clients money but hadn't taken yours, would you just stay and trust the bank because you weren't "personally effected"
About your "others bandwagoning" comment, I will always encourage others to go down the road thats best for them and a league that wants to help them will always be recommended over a league that has screwed over its clients multiple times and shows no remorse, and instead shows a "haha jokes on you, if you leave us you die" attitude
[quote=ikpure]If you haven't personally been effected by the recent esea drama then I suggest you stop bandwagoning and come up with your own reason to despise esea.[/quote]
I personally am not angry with ESEA as it has not affected me, however I understand that anyone who used the client is mad. If ESEA had been more supportive of the TF2 community in the past instead of being such tight asses about rules like match scheduling then maybe people would've been more likely to not care but if you put in malware into every single one of your clients computers then do you not think they are justified in leaving?
You say personally effect which is basically every american using ESEA because
Even if your computer wasn't accessed it would still be motivation to leave. For example if it was found that your bank was stealing its clients money but hadn't taken yours, would you just stay and trust the bank because you weren't "personally effected"
About your "others bandwagoning" comment, I will always encourage others to go down the road thats best for them and a league that wants to help them will always be recommended over a league that has screwed over its clients multiple times and shows no remorse, and instead shows a "haha jokes on you, if you leave us you die" attitude
I personally am not angry with ESEA as it has not affected me, however I understand that anyone who used the client is mad. If ESEA had been more supportive of the TF2 community in the past instead of being such tight asses about rules like match scheduling then maybe people would've been more likely to not care but if you put in malware into every single one of your clients computers then do you not think they are justified in leaving?
You say personally effect which is basically every american using ESEA because
Even if your computer wasn't accessed it would still be motivation to leave. For example if it was found that your bank was stealing its clients money but hadn't taken yours, would you just stay and trust the bank because you weren't "personally effected"
About your "others bandwagoning" comment, I will always encourage others to go down the road thats best for them and a league that wants to help them will always be recommended over a league that has screwed over its clients multiple times and shows no remorse, and instead shows a "haha jokes on you, if you leave us you die" attitude
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