or maybe they play video games for fun???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

believe it or not skelter but some people find it fun to compete(even in video games!)

Although I think losing ESEA is detrimental to TF2, I think it is a hyperbole to call it 'the death of TF2' or even 'the death of high level TF2'. You know, Europe still exists, as does Aus, SAM, Asia etc (some of those to a less extent "high level" but competitive TF2 is still alive and kicking in so many other places than NA)

I'm aware of that, thank you, but that's not even close to what I was getting at.

This guy nailed it. I think this post arrived a little bit too late

I am disappointed. Ggs guys.

If a League's success was determined by how many new players go there, we'd all have joined UGC ;)

The community wanted CEVO when ESEA was doin its malware shit. Now that ESEA says its not doing that anymore most are saying to go back. The community is a indecisive piece of shit (sorry). The top players want to play where the real game is while the rest want to play where their freinds are so they can "enjoy" themselves. After this CEVO season 2 things will happen. 1) CEVO will become better competitively. (better teams, 4 divisions, bigger prize pool, and more committed players) 2) We are still going to want to go back to ESEA. No LAN No GOAL. CEVO might get a lan in a couple seasons and then the players that stuck with CEVO will get to play in it. The invite players that leave will be gone and it'll be sad, but the new top dogs will get their shot and being considered the best. In the end we dont play this game for money we play it to get our dicks stroked and get called the best. So lets all just see what happens cause who cares its a game that we play because why the fuck not.

mason made a post that wasn't in point form and capitalized the first letters of his (albeit short) sentences. Truly, the end times for competitive TF2 are here.

That said: rip

Most invite and main teams haven't shown much interest in CEVO but I think if ESEA drops TF2 then they will come around.

Once mason gives in, its all over

Not true dagger.

I think some people are confusing systems thinking with personal motivation here. People are generally motivated with what is best for them, and consider less the impact it has on a system as a whole.

Here are some things I think are true:

An influx of beginner teams is important to the survival of competitive 6s. Aka an open environment.

A well broadcasted and exciting high level competitive division is important to popularize the game and attract new teams. Aka an invite division

Esea has provided both, historically.

Cevo now provides a satisfactory open division, and may provide the second type.

New and lower level teams appear to be favoring CEVO. Instead of telling them their motivations are wrong and ridiculous, we should try to understand why this is happening. Quindall suggests it is both cost and friendliness.

A LAN costs lots of money.

The bigger the player base, the more money available.

Esea has a bigger player base because the lan costs are shared with CS.

Money and LAN seems to incentivize high level play. Open teams seem to bring more money. What incentives open teams? An enjoyable game experience. That is literally the fuel at the core of this scene; lots of people love this game.

As long as people love the game, they will play. As long as enough love it, they will form teams and leagues.

If the game dies, it will be because the community moves on. No money, no league, nothing will be able to sustain it for more than a season or two if people don't care. Because the money is supported by the interest in the game.

In conclusion: the game will either die or it won't. Yes, certain ecosystems support its growth, but if it's going to die, you cannot stop it.

I, for one, don't think it will die.

I think Esea should weather this season in whatever way possible. If cevo is sustainable they don't stand a chance. But if, as many fear, cevo will die, they stand to make out well in s17.

And I think everyone should play where they think they'll have the best time. It will work itself out. The discussion is helpful! The personal attacks, less so

As a european, I can confirm.

EU TF2 was nonexistent before we had ESEA and it instantly vanished again as soon as we dropped ESEA.

ESL was dropped for less than ESEA. ETF2L got boycotted for a season because they allowed unlocks. EU is stubborn as fuck, never thought about what's good for competition/spectators/"the scene" and still survived.

I'm not asking anyone to make stupid decisions (like some of what EU did in the past), but almost no one understands why you are willing to put up with whatever shit ESEA is throwing at you, for the sole reason that they have a LAN with prices.

What about the people sandbagging...

If ESEA gave a remote fuck about TF2 and TF2 players, this wouldn't have happened. Every season we face the same shitty issues with ESEA, complain about them, and no one in ESEA gives a shit. Don't bullshit about using ESEA's forum or submitting tickets. Killing/Kalkin obviously read this forum all the time and it wouldn't be asking too much to of the TF2 head admins to notify higher ups of these issues so that they can be addressed.

I know it isn't likely, but hopefully losing hundreds of customers will make ESEA actually try to improve their service for TF2 players instead of dropping it altogether.

Being forced to play one league isn't a good thing either. Part of the problem with ESEA was lack of competition.

Tf2 can't support two leagues though so it's kind of fucked no matter what you do lol

I don't care what division or league I play in. I just enjoy playing the game and I want to get better. Why limit yourself to one league, play them all. The more people you play against the more likely you will find someone that is better than you so you have something to work towards to improve as an individual and as a team.

I've seen some people say that if ESEA dies so does 6's. What about the Euro scene? How is ESEA dropping TF2 gonna affect anything across the ocean or down in South America if at all?

like someone said earlier, in the most unlikely scenario that will not happen (i'd be in shock if it did) the only real solution is reverting back to the oldschool format of when TF2 was first in ESEA

open + invite, thats it. i'm sure people would appreciate that then being dropped all together, the same reason why ESEA only has open for cs 1.6 and no longer im/main/invite.

I would contend that it is the fact that LAN is the finals of the season, the best four teams in America, and a back to back to back two day affair with exciting coverage that makes it valuable to your excitement. The fact that it is in person with low ping probably factors into it very little from a spectator perspective.

The recent tftv zowie tournament showed that high level competition is just as exciting online, and draws similar viewers.

From a player perspective, I understand that low ping is preferred, but if you're trying to cut costs and preserve the system, while we're asking for sacrifices, asking high level players to tolerate the ping seems to be a possibility

Why should they weather this season? Our community has told them to fuck off. That's the message we are sending, I would already have pulled the plug in their situation.

cause sandbagging isn't already bad enough...just get rid of the awful moveup rules and let people play in whatever division they're appropriate for

I would love this, personally. Getting the chance to play against near-invite players as a new open team to improve, and new teams formed of ex-inviters only have to play for one season before they get moved to invite instead of 2-3.

But the open teams that won are ex invite players..

(from another thread)

[/quote]

As a business decision. Limiting their client base hurts, no matter what people say about whether they do or do not turn a profit. It is in their best interest to preserve the gaming communities which they serve

.

Only high level 6v6 TF2 will die if ESEA dies, the game will be pushed back several years ago in terms of skill level. That will be just about the worst case scenario. There's still tons of new blood coming into the game every season via UGC 6v6 and 9v9 and TF2.

I don't think many of the players in UGC 6v6 and CEVO 6v6 really care that much for an ESEA LAN or else they'd be playing in ESEA instead, wouldn't they? Makes it seem like the only ones complaining about ESEA dying are a vocal minority.

A real shame for all the players that have worked so hard to get into invite and try to make it to LAN though, oh well.

god dammit rays jr why did you not post the remixed version