news flash: that's what you do anyway

You can make a case for literally everything slowing down the game, or being a crutch. Its starting to get grating to hear it non-stop.

that doesnt explain how black box slows down the game @_@. in my experience blackbox gets you more free kills on soldier and in less cases keeps you up in silly situations, maybe the staying up part can slow down the game but how can getting free kills slow down the game?

edit: also please give an actual opinion instead of just saying "garbage post"

make a case for kritz slowing down game plz

It gives you one less rocket to work with on bombs but gives you amazing capability to troll the living shit out of the other team by never dying. If you want to be effective on bombs, you have to bait the shit out of your team.

u godda be a big boy and decide what u value in a roamer and what rl 2 use brother

you can make initiation/distraction plays just fine with blackbox, most just hurts your ability to pick the med/force ubers (which both slow the game down :o)

I never liked the black box because it forces your roamer to bait and slow down the team more, which I think goes against what a roamer's role should be. The roamer should be jumping in and throwing his life away to help the team.

HAVING SAID THAT....There are teams that can work around that style and have done quite well so I guess it's just a different way to play the game, which is cool too ya?

Black box is good if you're not particularly intent on being effective or the other team's flank is bad at playing the flank. You only have 2 shots on a rocket jump, and 1 rocket on a double jump (which are often required to really get important things done). If you're relegated to spamming in the flank - what even are you doing with your life - just grind out some WoW characters or something or have a coke - I hear they're delicious.

Shotgun roaming is good for set stalemates (you know ubers will be even when you respawn) because any jump you would do, your health is going to be irrelevant anyways; the likelihood that you'll survive it for any great length of time is relatively low. But you do have the added ability to wildly shotgun at things after you use up your rockets - but you *will* require more heals in the interim, so you need to carefully manage critical heals so your team doesn't go crazy and your medic put you on his/her "list" of people to secretly blame for every failure.

"Black box is good if you're not particularly intent on being effective or the other team's flank is bad at playing the flank." ive seen plenty of good roamers do a lot of work against some of the best flanks, but ill agree with puff that it does force a passive style in some situations. it mostly works on teams where the roamer is alone on the flank (i generally try to tell my scouts to go do other stuff when i blackbox). i feel like a do a pretty solid amount against some of the best scouts, namely decent performances against mixup and 4g where i play alone on the flank. ive seen maela and mangachu have great plays against the best flanks too, but oh well. like gigglgglyy said earlier, if you value working the flank more than going for the med blackbox is a great choice, and i think there are maps where it is more important.

bb's effectiveness is map specific bbz

lol garbage post from garbage player

It deeply upsets me that 1 player with a potential 45 hp buff on 3 rockets can "work" a flank. Not casting doubt on you remedy, but like... That's just pitiful. I'll pour a 40 out for tf2 and humanity's future.

% based is a slippery slope. Bombing into 2 players and hitting 70 damage on each is gonna heal like 45 hp with a single rocket which seems like a bit much to me. It's also not hard to hit 100+ damage spread over a few targets when spamming an incoming push through a choke.

Except flank fights are much more than spam three rockets and leave. Also you get 15 health for every target you hit. If you say its just a potential 45 health buff you haven't actually used the weapon yourself.

pulled this tip from the official tf2 wiki:

http://i.imgur.com/TrRuKjt.png

A flank fight should go like this.

Roamer looks in an area. If he sees nothing he walks a bit closer hoping somebody will casually wander into his rockets. If he sees anything he shoots all of his rockets at it and runs away while buffed other players come in for the kill (assuming kills have not yet already been acquired by way of the aforementioned shoot-all-of-your-rockets technique). If the buffed others fail to acquire kills, roamer now has most if not all of his rockets back, and the things on the other side of the door will not be able to press the advantage they may have gained.

It's literally the easiest thing in the entire world especially given that most of the people you'll be shooting several rockets at can only take a few rockets to begin with.

While black box could potentially turn out in this situation, I fail to see how it could be *so* powerful that it would allow you to do things that you couldn't otherwise already do - only better due to the extra rocket, unless the other teams flank is just being bad.

Black box is good for meeting the other teams roamer in a 1v1 trade. Other than that, regardless of any upside it sounds like it's shooting piss and for that reason I can't use it

the noise it makes is really distinct, so other team knows when you're jumping a lot of the time

Since you're clearly referring to this post I'd like to point out that I didn't just say "garbage post", rather I provided an explanation as to why your post was such garbage. I invite everyone to take another look at it and laugh at how garbage remedy's post is.

That being said, I'm thankful I don't have to explain to someone why a weapon that encourages sit-and-spam tactics and lets you get away with dumb plays slows down the game because others have already done so.

you pmd me on steam to tell me my post was a garbage post, thats mostly what i was referring too

blackbox is viable on koth maps for sure since when you have the point you really don't need to push. If you aren't moving, extra HP never hurts. I guess blackbox could work on other maps too, I just prefer 4 rockets.

I feel like black box would be most effective on an invite scout who wants to tryout solly but blows at prediction, so he finds a way to get around it with the bb+shotty

A black box and gun boats combined loadout is terrible.

it should have a downside per rocket like the DH. As it is right now it's irritating to play against because he's the same as you until he runs out of ammo, and on a roamer to roamer fight, you're gonna lose if you just walk into each other and hit the same rockets. It makes for a fairly boring fight where you're both using the same weapon but his get's him health

that's irrelevant considering my steam message and my post is in reference to the same instance
another garbage post

These are complete estimates and hypothetical but:
if two soldiers, one without black box one with both shoot rockets at the same time and are overhealed to 300, and take 100 dmg per rocket.
Black box user's health-
300 (-100 + 15)
215 (-100 +15)
130 (-100 +15)
45 (-100 +15)
Dead
4 rockets
but if you don't have the black box-
300 (-100)
200 (-100)
100 (-100)
Dead
3 rockets
Presuming you can hit rockets, black box seems superior, but then again, this is if two people are standing on flat ground. Not only would they most likely have less health, and each player would be down a rocket from jumping. I still prefer the extra health saved from gunboats and i find it hard to play without it, but if you can make black box work, then great, i think its viable.

Except I don't think the BB provides any sort of overheal. That means (by your method) the BB solly would go:

300 (-100)
200 (-100 + 15)
115 (-100 + 15)
30
Dead

Not that it makes a difference in the outcome of your scenario.

http://ozfortress.com/showpost.php?p=930860&postcount=41

If you know the other roamer is using blackbox just make sure you are getting crit buffs when holding. If he pushes into you, he's dead (assuming you hit the same shots).

Not too much of a fan of less spamability + less mobility. Sure you stay alive a bit longer but that's not exactly worth the loss of the 4 rockets for spamming the enemy away, bombing, and cleanup in the role of the roamer.

less spam?

black box exists to spam

you get 15 health from doing 20 damage across the map

less clip doesn't matter if you're not in a fight

you have more mobility since you can heal 80% of a jump w/ 1 rocket w/o packs or taking heals

but yeah your bombs are shitty