Comp TF2 has two obvious choices, both of which sucks on different levels. The first choice that everyone jumps too is a plugin/script/server magic that removes the nerf. This sucks because all it does is open the divide even further between 6s players, and every other TF2 player on the planet, including HL. It also, on a much lesser scale, opens the gate to change more attributes and further divide 6s away from TF2. You guys might dislike pubbers, but without the general TF2 public, you have no new players, no teams, no one signs up, leagues die (hi ESEA) and the game goes even more stale then it did before. We're on a small upswing (or at least are keeping stable) so that all REALLY sucks.

The second option is to just man up and deal with it. It sucks? Sure does. You can complain to Valve, and its possible (but unlikely) they will hear your calls if numerous enough, but in the event they don't you need to be ready for a shifting meta. The top teams are going to switch things up, more pipe heavy play maybe, more trap heavy....hell maybe with the lack of damage the Demo now shows, perhaps the Loch 'n' Load will be unbanned (lol). You don't know, because this is literally the first day of the patch. Give it time.

There is a third option too; you be a massive drama queen and leave the game 4 evah because a weapon got nerfed. This is obviously stupid, and no one with any mental capacity would actually do this.

In the end, its not the end of days. Maybe a plugin to fix the nerf could end up like Project M for Smash Bros and outshine the original...or it could end like CS Pro Mod and go down in (boring) flames. Either way, TF2 will still be here, there will still be people playing it, and its also just a goddamn video game. Chill, do a conga in pregame and r e l a x. Taking your time is optional.

I don't main demo and have just tried this out in a pub alongside the new items.
What I've seen is that the sticky damage seems inacurate as a direct det on a minicrit marked heavy did 40 damage. Which should be in the upper bracket of an instant det. I've always thought demos should have 6 stickies max ,but I'm still ambivalent to this. Maybe it will turn out better as a whole, maybe there will be a promod, give it a few weeks and see. But I think Valve needs to realize that their original categorization of the classes with pyro as offensive and demo as defensive has been disproven by the players.

P.S. The new soldier items are fun especially when listening to Wagner.

I think R4pture and Skeej's responses to this are both accurate. You can't make a mod or risk separating Comp from Casual. Does that make the nerf to stickies reasonable? No, just like Skeej said there were many other effective ways of editing sticks. Overall I just say we play Comp for around 2 weeks and see how different it is. Perhaps change a couple metas (scottish resistance, more heavy plays), but we NEED to wait and see how badly this affects us all, as a team, and as individuals. IF the game is truly unplayable with a Demo in a 6s format (which it won't be, just more difficult) the community should perhaps look into a Pro Mod, but we need to give this more time.

http://imgur.com/xBaIyED

http://imgur.com/xBaIyED

This happens in every game ever.

> update changes something in the game
> community goes nuts about it, although it is not even tested yet and no one knows how those changes will affect the actual game under real conditions
> everyone is afraid of change and everyone starts crying
> everyone "is done with the game and quitting"
> some weeks pass and not one single crybaby has left the game
> everyone gets used to the changes and keeps on playing
> suddenly a new update... aaaaaand here we go again

promod quickest way to actually kill the game

Now, after the update, I went to try the changes on a 32 player Dustbowl server. I primarily main Heavy/Medic, but I go Demo at times too when I feel that it will benefit the team, though not as often as the Engineer and sometimes, the Scout.

Honestly, I did not feel any major changes in the ramp-up on the miniguns. I was as good as killing as before the update. The (australium*) sticky launcher felt similar too, although it did result in a few missed kills due to the ramp up. Note that before playing, I was aware the both the sticky launcher and the miniguns had this effect added.

Now, I am more of a casual player, though people have been asking me to participate in tournaments. I don't play Demo as much, so this doesn't affect me much, nor did the Heavy nerf affect me as much, possibly due to my playstyle.

My only advice is this;

Try to get used to the ramp up. Once you get a feel for it, you may do just as well as you did before the update. Or use the Scottish Resistance. The longer arm time means you'll get more damage out of them.
[list] It may also be best to see if a console command/server mod is created that disables the ramp-up.

Now, I don't main Demo, nor do I play 6v6 or Highlander, but I know how this feels. Hopefully, either Valve tweaks this so that it doesn't cripple the Demo as much or the community finds ways to take advantage of the ramp-up. The TF2 community is capable of some truly amazing things, so I have no doubt that we'll find new ways to play with this weapon.

* Yeah, I had to put that in. :P

What else can we actually do then besides beg valve to add an option to disable it like they did with crits and spread?

play the game

This comic has never been more appropriate

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/114

After almost 800h on demo, most of them competitive, I actually feel angry with this change

I cant help but really disagree with generalizing this with the other instances of people getting up in arms about new updates to a game. This is a completely different scenario. This is a change to THE core element to a game mode that has been in place for 7 years. This isn't Shaman players getting mad because they nerfed their enhancement spec in WoW. This is a detriment to the 6v6 and 9v9 meta that has been played for 7 years. This is not the same scenario as what you are greentexting.

This is a father that abandoned his child as an infant, then came back 7 years later and had the audacity to even attempt to parent him.

BTW, I really love how people downvote my post even though I try to explain my perspective of the changes.

Come on, people. At least I didn't make any insults like some others.

Are you people new?

Platinum is right, ikpure is right, marmaduke is right.

The update to demoman shifted the meta in one foul swoop to go from whose demo can get off their 1k damage on mid, to whose team can put out the most damage in a mid fight that has less dps overall.

A lot of maps just became a lot more playable for scout, and I think medics will feel the difference immediately when mid fights last a good amount longer. I know the stats for mid fight avg length might not be in place but I can guarantee this patch makes pushing chokes on a lot of maps less uber reliant and more skill reliant.

I honestly don't see why youre asking for revert patches. This patch is about as competitive as youre ever going to see. It shifted the focus from spam to aim.

The parachutes are gimmicky and if anyone wants to pubstomp this week just go direct hit soldier and shit on the people floating in mid air.

You guys wonder why this game never gets popular... and then you guys cry about probably one of the most game changing, game reviving patches that this game has ever seen.

Play it out, adjust, and move on. Dota, LoL, SC2, CS, all have balance patches regularly, and the pro players adjust and respect the company's decision. Here a bunch of you just cry like they deleted demo from the game.

people minus fragged your post because you began it with "as a heavy main"

In addition, now that the sticky bomb launcher isn't better than every other possible unlock, you can expect to eventually see more unlocks in that slot that aren't shields.

It's one dark day for a future of much brighter ones.

I understand that fully. I know this is a thread that concerns the Demo, but I had to put that because

1) The Heavy was also affected by the damage ramp-up, although admittedly, it was much less drastic than the Demo, to the point where it feels like nothing.

2) I feel that I have to say that because I need to tell people that I'm not particularly a very experienced Demoman. Honesty > Pure lying.

I have way too many hours played as a Heavy, so I'm switching things up with the Demo to build up more experience.

League of Legends pro players regularly adjust?! I don't know what competitive League you're watching, because that is not what happens at all. What happens in competitive league is that the game is buffed and nerfed so frequently and is soo dynamic that there are no pro teams that can actually stay on top. You look at the top counter strike players who have been playing for years upon years, they tend to stay at the top. You look at Mix^ who has been to like every lan ever, thats the way it should be. Top level teams should be able to stay at the top level until dethroned by a team that has made it to their same level, not because of some garbage gimmick new patch that throws everyone off their game like league of fucking legends. Low-to-mid LCS teams are fucking beating the top 2 teams in the LCS because of this dynamic "weekly balance" garbage.

One of the things I liked so much about this game was how balanced and static it was. You wouldn't have to bank off of Riot Games releasing a new fucking OP as fuck cheese champion that you could stomp all your solo queue games with to gain elo, and you wouldn't have to fear being on the receiving end of that garbage.

Edit: also tell me why the fuck we should respect a company's decision that doesn't touch a game's comp scene for 7 years and then wrecks it all in one big update that they didn't even take input from the community before passing. Equipping the new parachute, new shield, and the Persian persuader is glitched to give you infinite regen. To me that just shows how much they barely even care, they couldn't test it enough to find such a simple bug

Im crying in Nigeria

http://i.imgur.com/0pw8IS0.gif

Because Volvo clearly knows how to teleport bread. :P

This couldn't be more wrong. Demoman weakness is exactly close quarters combat, why would you want to nerf that and not long range combat?

Demoman is the only class in the game which doesn't have a reliable close range weapon, I repeat, the only class in the game which doesn't have a reliable close range weapon, before you say anything, no, pipes are not reliable, and you take self damage.

Scout has hitscan weapons, soldier has shotgun, pyro has shotgun and the flamethrower, spy has revolver, sniper has smg, engie has shotgun + unlocks, heavy has everything, even medic has syringes. Every class except the medic has a hitscan weapon they can use at close quarters, and even the medic syringe is pretty effective at close range.

Demoman weapons are projectile based, as such they are not reliable close quarter weapons and you take self damage from both, if anything, demo needed a buff at close range combat not a nerf.

This was more than obvious a balance with pub players in mind, obviously they cried enough about demo being op for it to be nerfed for the 1543352 time.

Maybe an actually logic balance for a pub perspective as someone mentioned would be to distribute or reduce demo damage when there is more than 1 demo on each team? And not actually entirely destroy the class main role which is to deal damage.

Greetings from the Smash community which finally got formal recognition for the first time since 1999 from a company that even thought to make it illegal to post videos of their games being played.

I'd really like to reserve judgments and hasty calls over what the patch means. I want to see and experience gameplay with the change and see people try other things, such as the ScoRes. It could very well be not as good and it could very well be for the better. Kritzkriegs will more than likely play out differently, which could be interesting. I think we'll probably see demomen play a lot more closely to the combo in 6s.

Regarding the ScoRes: is it even affected by the arm time ramp up? I don't mean "it takes longer to arm," but does it have that mechanic built into it now too? I think it's pretty important to remember that the thing shoots stickies out faster too. Not arguing that it's the new meta, but I'd be interested to see people experiment with it in the new environment.

Is this actually a joke? Sakurai literally hates competitive smash. He announced it publicly.

Forget about the demo nerf, its reasonable. My issue with this update is they have given the scout another seemingly viable weapon, and given the sniper another joke of a gun.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a TFC sniper rifle but this one does not get head shots before fully charged! NOT COOL!
If they just made head shots ramp up but still deal more damage than body it would be cool. Also you can't fire a non-charged shot without a delay that is ridiculous, and you lose the charge when you fall.
I want to play in a pug where snipers have to use the classic

I know he did, that was back in like 2008 or something, around the time of Brawl's release (although I think he's maybe rethought his feelings by looking at the modes in the new game, albeit it still looks incredibly lacking of mechanical depth, unfortunately).
I've been going to smash tournaments since 2007. The fact that the scene was acknowledged at this year's E3 was a gigantic thing for the community, even if the new game looks underwhelming. It was also a gigantic thing for the community that their game was allowed to exist at EVO last year. At least Valve knows the competitive scene exists and doesn't actively try to kill it or stifle it, as much as some might feel the recent patch did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEoTQB7h3NQ

If demo isn't as effective on mids anymore (and I don't actually know, I haven't played since update) are we going to see interesting new strats like double gunboats soldiers rolling out fast and demo rolling out with medic?

Probably not, but it's interesting to think about.

Minis, stickies, and heavies nerfed. If you love Hightower pubs the game just got a whole lot better. (Observe the Conga Lemmings in their natural habitat)

http://i.imgur.com/7nEbXhY.jpg?1

and it is not ez to airshot those fuckers since they can straf anywhere they want

Nice argument mason

Try to actually play the class and read what I said again.

It didn't need a close range nerf, if anything it needed a long range nerf, like damage fall off on distance like rockets, less stickies, damage nerf when more than 1 demo per team, etc...

Close range is actually the biggest weakness of the class, and you are taking one of the demo most reliable weapons (albeit still very unreliable) at close range and nerfing it even more.

You remember when you feel helpless 1v1ing a decent scout, now it will be even worse. There's no other class so reliant on other classes for self defense as the demo. Its even worse now.