Yyyaaoooo.
Obviously these new changes are pretty mind blowing to the TF2 community. 6v6 needs to adapt, even if its just Demomen changing how they play. These drastic changes to the meta allow us some time to consider new options to freshen up the game.
I can't say that I have the time right now to manage organizing an eXperiment of what I'm about to propose, but we can at least theory craft if no organizers/teams are interested in taking it for a spin.
Do we really need Demoman_Limit 1 anymore? The trap potential of 2 sticky launchers is absurd, but what if there was a gentleman's agreement (I don't think you can technically implement it atm) that only 1 SL was allowed at a time?
People have been throwing around the idea of running w/o a demo, but traps are still incredibly strong and most likely I think we'll still see a demo for both teams all the time. The second demo could either run ScottishResistance or DemoKnight. The SR does promote more traps, but that demo could defuse the other team's traps to help break standoffs. The SR is a pretty weak active combat weapon so the Demo would still be rather vulnerable. DemoKnight has it's strengths, but a team running two Demos would by definition be sacrificing a scout or a soldier.
I can't say I know for sure how this would turn out, but it definitely intrigues me.
What does TF.tv think about this?
Yyyaaoooo.
Obviously these new changes are pretty mind blowing to the TF2 community. 6v6 needs to adapt, even if its just Demomen changing how they play. These drastic changes to the meta allow us some time to consider new options to freshen up the game.
I can't say that I have the time right now to manage organizing an eXperiment of what I'm about to propose, but we can at least theory craft if no organizers/teams are interested in taking it for a spin.
Do we really need Demoman_Limit 1 anymore? The trap potential of 2 sticky launchers is absurd, but what if there was a gentleman's agreement (I don't think you can technically implement it atm) that only 1 SL was allowed at a time?
People have been throwing around the idea of running w/o a demo, but traps are still incredibly strong and most likely I think we'll still see a demo for both teams all the time. The second demo could either run ScottishResistance or DemoKnight. The SR does promote more traps, but that demo could defuse the other team's traps to help break standoffs. The SR is a pretty weak active combat weapon so the Demo would still be rather vulnerable. DemoKnight has it's strengths, but a team running two Demos would by definition be sacrificing a scout or a soldier.
I can't say I know for sure how this would turn out, but it definitely intrigues me.
What does TF.tv think about this?
The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
Teams would stalemate with sticky traps. If you push you walk through traps, and there's no real reason to go to mid if you can lock down flank and choke of every map. Just my opinions and theory crafting. Sounds more slow then current meta, though.
Teams would stalemate with sticky traps. If you push you walk through traps, and there's no real reason to go to mid if you can lock down flank and choke of every map. Just my opinions and theory crafting. Sounds more slow then current meta, though.
for once in my life, thanks for the downvotes. Keep it coming if you think it's terrible. Just throwing stuff around.
for once in my life, thanks for the downvotes. Keep it coming if you think it's terrible. Just throwing stuff around.
28 stickybombs on maps like granary that only have two chokepoints
kill me now
28 stickybombs on maps like granary that only have two chokepoints
kill me now
there was also a time when comp tf2 had 2 medics at a time and it was terrible
it will prob be the same for 2 demos
there was also a time when comp tf2 had 2 medics at a time and it was terrible
it will prob be the same for 2 demos
what if it was only demoknight then? no SR.
what if it was only demoknight then? no SR.
what class would you replace with a demoknight
what class would you replace with a demoknight
unless you added a 7th player slot, no one is gonna trade a scout (best class in the game) or roamer for a demoknight.
unless you added a 7th player slot, no one is gonna trade a scout (best class in the game) or roamer for a demoknight.
Pipes are still really powerful. Having to worry about two demos constantly spamming pipes at you isn't something I'd ever find enjoyable. Demo is noticeably less powerful than he was before, but not enough to warrant allowing teams to have more than one at a time.
Pipes are still really powerful. Having to worry about two demos constantly spamming pipes at you isn't something I'd ever find enjoyable. Demo is noticeably less powerful than he was before, but not enough to warrant allowing teams to have more than one at a time.
dMenaceThe games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
[quote=dMenace]The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.[/quote]
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
Demo, honestly is not as gimped as some may think. Really there are alot of alternatives as some have been playtesting (see Platimum's scrims last night). Ideas such as: 1) demo knight or 2) scottish resistance. are definite alternatives/options.
And really, sticks still do quite alot of work when holding choke points. Just maybe not so much for might fights. I think that is the main question. How do we make demos more efficient for putting out as much damage as possible at mid or what class do we replace them with? That's what needs to be solved.
Demo, honestly is not as gimped as some may think. Really there are alot of alternatives as some have been playtesting (see Platimum's scrims last night). Ideas such as: 1) demo knight or 2) scottish resistance. are definite alternatives/options.
And really, sticks still do quite alot of work when holding choke points. Just maybe not so much for might fights. I think that is the main question. How do we make demos more efficient for putting out as much damage as possible at mid or what class do we replace them with? That's what needs to be solved.
StaleWaffledMenaceThe games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine
[quote=StaleWaffle][quote=dMenace]The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.[/quote]
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.[/quote]
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine
2 demos?
let's turn on random crits while we're at it
2 demos?
let's turn on random crits while we're at it
A significant balance change like this hasn't been made in a long, long time. It definitely changes things around, but I think that a lot of people are acting like demo is unplayable now.
However, what TF2 does not need is a class limit of 2 for demo. Pushing will be painfully annoying with having literally every single entrance stickied on every single map.
A significant balance change like this hasn't been made in a long, long time. It definitely changes things around, but I think that a lot of people are acting like demo is unplayable now.
However, what TF2 does not need is a class limit of 2 for demo. Pushing will be painfully annoying with having literally every single entrance stickied on every single map.
EvrewsStaleWaffledMenaceThe games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm
[quote=Evrews][quote=StaleWaffle][quote=dMenace]The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.[/quote]
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.[/quote]
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine[/quote]
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm
StaleWaffleEvrewsStaleWaffledMenaceThe games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm
you need to not think of 200 dpm or any dpm really as some kind of finite level of damage that is acceptable to do in this case
maybe the open finals medics realized that tanking demos throughout fights is a bad idea because you dont get nearly the return on heals >> damage that you used to
i know slin really likes to soak goldfish and im pretty sure panic got a ton of heals as well
as far as your point about banny, he will figure something out
hes been playing a really heal heavy tanky long range sticky charging demo for a lot of seasons now (since ~11 maybe) and im pretty sure if he wants to hes still got the dm/pipe aim to make openings for his team without being the 260 hp final boss
[quote=StaleWaffle][quote=Evrews][quote=StaleWaffle][quote=dMenace]The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.[/quote]
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.[/quote]
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine[/quote]
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm[/quote]
you need to not think of 200 dpm or any dpm really as some kind of finite level of damage that is acceptable to do in this case
maybe the open finals medics realized that tanking demos throughout fights is a bad idea because you dont get nearly the return on heals >> damage that you used to
i know slin really likes to soak goldfish and im pretty sure panic got a ton of heals as well
as far as your point about banny, he will figure something out
hes been playing a really heal heavy tanky long range sticky charging demo for a lot of seasons now (since ~11 maybe) and im pretty sure if he wants to hes still got the dm/pipe aim to make openings for his team without being the 260 hp final boss
mStaleWaffleEvrewsStaleWaffledMenaceThe games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm
you need to not think of 200 dpm or any dpm really as some kind of finite level of damage that is acceptable to do in this case
maybe the open finals medics realized that tanking demos throughout fights is a bad idea because you dont get nearly the return on heals >> damage that you used to
i know slin really likes to soak goldfish and im pretty sure panic got a ton of heals as well
That's true enough. I think that it's a bit ridiculous however to imply there's been little to no change in damage output.
[quote=m][quote=StaleWaffle][quote=Evrews][quote=StaleWaffle][quote=dMenace]The games we've seen in open to invite since the update have proven(to me at least) that demo isn't as gimped as we thought it was. I think boulder put it nicely, it's the same kind of spamming, just requires one more sticky to get the around the same output as normal.[/quote]
I think from a dpm standpoint this is not true. B4nny had 168 dpm.[/quote]
Yeah, but your sample is one game. Demos have been doing just fine[/quote]
Open finals both demos were at or below 200 dpm[/quote]
you need to not think of 200 dpm or any dpm really as some kind of finite level of damage that is acceptable to do in this case
maybe the open finals medics realized that tanking demos throughout fights is a bad idea because you dont get nearly the return on heals >> damage that you used to
i know slin really likes to soak goldfish and im pretty sure panic got a ton of heals as well[/quote]
That's true enough. I think that it's a bit ridiculous however to imply there's been little to no change in damage output.
TheFragilePushing will be painfully annoying with having literally every single entrance stickied on every single map.
Double Scottish Resistance Demos
Save us all
[quote=TheFragile]Pushing will be painfully annoying with having literally every single entrance stickied on every single map.[/quote]
Double Scottish Resistance Demos
[b][i]Save us all[/i][/b]
I'd rather teleport bread for three days straight than deal with two Demos...
I'd rather teleport bread for three days straight than deal with two Demos...
LKincheloeI'd rather teleport bread for three days straight than deal with two Demos...
cool
[quote=LKincheloe]I'd rather teleport bread for three days straight than deal with two Demos...[/quote]
cool