cp_logjam_b5
[url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsbssxhb331ooia/cp_logjam_b5.bsp]https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsbssxhb331ooia/cp_logjam_b5.bsp[/url]
Changes:
Added a natural rock arch at 2nd to block some sniper stuff
Added a new door to banana from 2nd
Detailed last a bit
Fixed more displacement stuff
Added a roof to spam spire from
Screens:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZcVFVwo.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ORPAGsH.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/89R13zP.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/w7vCHFq.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/rtI7tpJ.jpg[/img]
Hycecp_logjam_b5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsbssxhb331ooia/cp_logjam_b5.bsp
Changes:
Added a natural rock arch at 2nd to block some sniper stuff
Added a new door to banana from 2nd
Detailed last a bit
Fixed more displacement stuff
Added a roof to spam spire from
Screens:
*snip*
rip demo rollout 2014-2014
T_T
[quote=Hyce]cp_logjam_b5
[url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsbssxhb331ooia/cp_logjam_b5.bsp]https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsbssxhb331ooia/cp_logjam_b5.bsp[/url]
Changes:
[b]Added a natural rock arch at 2nd to block some sniper stuff[/b]
Added a new door to banana from 2nd
Detailed last a bit
Fixed more displacement stuff
Added a roof to spam spire from
Screens:
*snip*[/quote]
rip demo rollout 2014-2014
T_T
Quartz
rip demo rollout 2014-2014
T_T
If there are no viable ways to roll out because of the arch I can alter/remove the arch and think of something else. That's what my main worry was when I put the arch in.
[quote=Quartz]
rip demo rollout 2014-2014
T_T[/quote]
If there are no viable ways to roll out because of the arch I can alter/remove the arch and think of something else. That's what my main worry was when I put the arch in.
The rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.
The rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.
PheaaThe rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower
[quote=Pheaa]The rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.[/quote]
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower
QuartzPheaaThe rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower
First of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?
[quote=Quartz][quote=Pheaa]The rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.[/quote]
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower[/quote]
First of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?
ExquisiteStone*snip*
Please do oh almighty rollouter
[quote=ExquisiteStone]*snip*[/quote]
Please do oh almighty rollouter
ExquisiteStoneFirst of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?
I've tried both left and right rollouts pretty extensively, and the right one is notoriously hard to hit often enough for it to be a reasonable rollout. Even with the left rollout(minus the arch) it'll end up being pretty damn hard for most people to get a proper pogo jump.
I think a fence might server better than the arch there.
[quote=ExquisiteStone]
First of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?[/quote]
I've tried both left and right rollouts pretty extensively, and the right one is notoriously hard to hit often enough for it to be a reasonable rollout. Even with the left rollout(minus the arch) it'll end up being pretty damn hard for most people to get a proper pogo jump.
I think a fence might server better than the arch there.
iridescentFUZZExquisiteStoneFirst of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?
I've tried both left and right rollouts pretty extensively, and the right one is notoriously hard to hit often enough for it to be a reasonable rollout. Even with the left rollout(minus the arch) it'll end up being pretty damn hard for most people to get a proper pogo jump.
I think a fence might server better than the arch there.
I am going to discuss with Hyce on how to make a more smooth rollout (but not necessarily faster)
[quote=iridescentFUZZ][quote=ExquisiteStone]
First of all, how is that a hard rollout? Second of all, do you want me to find a better one?[/quote]
I've tried both left and right rollouts pretty extensively, and the right one is notoriously hard to hit often enough for it to be a reasonable rollout. Even with the left rollout(minus the arch) it'll end up being pretty damn hard for most people to get a proper pogo jump.
I think a fence might server better than the arch there.[/quote]
I am going to discuss with Hyce on how to make a more smooth rollout (but not necessarily faster)
QuartzPheaaThe rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower
I can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?
[quote=Quartz][quote=Pheaa]The rollout through main is like the exact same speed as the one through left, don't remove the arch cause of the rollout. That being said, the arch is kindof obnoxious cause there is too little area to jump around/over it. It makes jumping from spire to the door past the arch a bit shit cause you don't really know where the wall is around the arch. Really like the little door to banana though, that's cool.[/quote]
Unless you mean this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5H0R2H8sRs) which is pretty much impossible to do consistently then no, there's no rollout that's the same speed as the left one. Most of the others are about 2/3 secs slower[/quote]
I can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?
PheaaI can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?
Because it's nice having a higher skill ceiling than the granary rollout.
[quote=Pheaa]I can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?[/quote]
Because it's nice having a higher skill ceiling than the granary rollout.
iridescentFUZZPheaaI can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?
Because it's nice having a higher skill ceiling than the granary rollout.
So why are people against the fastest rollout being harder then? Surely by having the fastest rollout being left the skill ceiling is lower?
[quote=iridescentFUZZ][quote=Pheaa]I can do that rollout pretty consistently, yeah.
In any case why does the rollout have to be that fast consistantly?[/quote]
Because it's nice having a higher skill ceiling than the granary rollout.[/quote]
So why are people against the fastest rollout being harder then? Surely by having the fastest rollout being left the skill ceiling is lower?
people who think rollouts are hard, should probably practice more instead of whine, but we shouldn't make the fast rollout easier, jsut more smooth, and have more ways of doing fast rollouts than just 1 so you can have more possibilities (and more interesting) mid fights.
people who think rollouts are hard, should probably practice more instead of whine, but we shouldn't make the fast rollout easier, jsut more smooth, and have more ways of doing fast rollouts than just 1 so you can have more possibilities (and more interesting) mid fights.
Absolutely pointless to change a map that plays well so that the rollout is flashy. Focus on the other changes plz.
Absolutely pointless to change a map that plays well so that the rollout is flashy. Focus on the other changes plz.
b4nnyAbsolutely pointless to change a map that plays well so that the rollout is flashy. Focus on the other changes plz.
So removing some player clipping is going to shift the meta? ok.
[quote=b4nny]Absolutely pointless to change a map that plays well so that the rollout is flashy. Focus on the other changes plz.[/quote]
So removing some player clipping is going to shift the meta? ok.
I think this map needs a fast/achievable rollout for demo with roamer rollouts as they are currently. Gonna be really lopsided otherwise.
I think this map needs a fast/achievable rollout for demo with roamer rollouts as they are currently. Gonna be really lopsided otherwise.
So the main point of the arch being added was to block a ridiculous sniper sightline from upper lobby to spire.
You could stand pretty much all the way back in that room, completely uncommitted and unspammable, and have a perfect view of the entire capture point on spire.
That's a load of shit.
So, I put an arch in the way to block the view, which blocks the fastest rollout as well. Fixes that I can think of:
1. Make the arch smaller on the left side (move the left side closer to the right) allowing more space for a demoman to fly by so long as it still blocks the view of the sniper
2. Move the arch closer to the building (may mess with soldiers trying to jump from upper left to point)
3. Remove the arch, AKA the glorious return of mashed potato
4. Move the upper lobby door to the left (as if you were pushing to 2nd from last) and alter the rock wall a bit so that sniper sightline just isn't there at all (might also fuck with jumps still)
5. Remove the arch and add a shutter door there.
That's basically what I can think of as fixes. I'll be looking at this. This sight line is definitely more important than a demo rollout at the moment. The demo being a bit slower to mid, albeit not fantastic, isn't as game breaking as a retarded sniper sightline that you can't spam or take care of easily.
So the main point of the arch being added was to block a ridiculous sniper sightline from upper lobby to spire.
You could stand pretty much all the way back in that room, completely uncommitted and unspammable, and have a perfect view of the entire capture point on spire.
That's a load of shit.
So, I put an arch in the way to block the view, which blocks the fastest rollout as well. Fixes that I can think of:
1. Make the arch smaller on the left side (move the left side closer to the right) allowing more space for a demoman to fly by so long as it still blocks the view of the sniper
2. Move the arch closer to the building (may mess with soldiers trying to jump from upper left to point)
3. Remove the arch, AKA the glorious return of mashed potato
4. Move the upper lobby door to the left (as if you were pushing to 2nd from last) and alter the rock wall a bit so that sniper sightline just isn't there at all (might also fuck with jumps still)
5. Remove the arch and add a shutter door there.
That's basically what I can think of as fixes. I'll be looking at this. This sight line is definitely more important than a demo rollout at the moment. The demo being a bit slower to mid, albeit not fantastic, isn't as game breaking as a retarded sniper sightline that you can't spam or take care of easily.
It looks great. One thing I noticed though is that you're able to shoot over the rock arch with pipes and stickies.
http://i.imgur.com/MLouLRw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nZyC43N.jpg
It's much more effective if you're holding mid and spamming from the top of the hut as it requires a lot less charging, and you are far less vulnerable from spam by sitting there.
http://i.imgur.com/ONGxfAA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5B8J2KF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oarVvgK.jpg
The pipes aren't as effective as they usually will det before landing but can possibly splash someone standing around here on the spire.
http://i.imgur.com/FiuA1ce.jpg
This isn't really game changing much at all but you don't need to charge your stickies nearly as much and could possibly be exploited with a kritz.
It looks great. One thing I noticed though is that you're able to shoot over the rock arch with pipes and stickies. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MLouLRw.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nZyC43N.jpg[/IMG]
It's much more effective if you're holding mid and spamming from the top of the hut as it requires a lot less charging, and you are far less vulnerable from spam by sitting there.[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ONGxfAA.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5B8J2KF.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/oarVvgK.jpg[/IMG]The pipes aren't as effective as they usually will det before landing but can possibly splash someone standing around here on the spire. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/FiuA1ce.jpg[/IMG]
This isn't really game changing much at all but you don't need to charge your stickies nearly as much and could possibly be exploited with a kritz.
Funny you take pictures of that, I removed the ability to do that for b6 when I was optimizing the map.
Funny you take pictures of that, I removed the ability to do that for b6 when I was optimizing the map.
Accidentally stumbled into a less convoluted right hand rollout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O83a3R83px8&feature=youtu.be
Haven't experimented with it enough, but it shouldn't be hard to optimise further.
Accidentally stumbled into a less convoluted right hand rollout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O83a3R83px8&feature=youtu.be
Haven't experimented with it enough, but it shouldn't be hard to optimise further.
That wall is huge. Just what we needed to nerf those snipers. Though, it does look a bit out of place imo. Might need to blend it in some more.
Plus, I don't think that wall messes with rollouts that much. Makes it a bit harder? Yes. However, you can still arrive to the middle pretty fast.
I've piled up a few rollouts in one video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3II1kX5bW90
That wall is huge. Just what we needed to nerf those snipers. Though, it does look a bit out of place imo. Might need to blend it in some more.
Plus, I don't think that wall messes with rollouts that much. Makes it a bit harder? Yes. However, you can still arrive to the middle pretty fast.
I've piled up a few rollouts in one video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3II1kX5bW90
Very glad to see the all didn't actually hinder jumps. The arch will look more in place as I detail 2nd and modify the cliffs a bit- the rest of them are just straight at the moment. Not in the future.
cp_logjam_b6
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7uxysnzoxzb3r9/cp_logjam_b6.bsp
Changes:
Removed the baity roamer spot
Added some central height on mid to try out (kinda looks like shit atm)
Clipping fixes
Numerous displacement fixes
Made the arch clearances wider and taller, modified a wall in lobby to block sightlines
Other stuff I don't remember
Screens
http://i.imgur.com/n9a4CV4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GSj4ht8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RsoL0T4.jpg
Very glad to see the all didn't actually hinder jumps. The arch will look more in place as I detail 2nd and modify the cliffs a bit- the rest of them are just straight at the moment. Not in the future.
cp_logjam_b6
[url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7uxysnzoxzb3r9/cp_logjam_b6.bsp]https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7uxysnzoxzb3r9/cp_logjam_b6.bsp[/url]
Changes:
Removed the baity roamer spot
Added some central height on mid to try out (kinda looks like shit atm)
Clipping fixes
Numerous displacement fixes
Made the arch clearances wider and taller, modified a wall in lobby to block sightlines
Other stuff I don't remember
Screens
[img]http://i.imgur.com/n9a4CV4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/GSj4ht8.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/RsoL0T4.jpg[/img]
sloppy
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bU6bkzUPUg[/youtube]
PotatovThat wall is huge. Just what we needed to nerf those snipers. Though, it does look a bit out of place imo. Might need to blend it in some more.
Plus, I don't think that wall messes with rollouts that much. Makes it a bit harder? Yes. However, you can still arrive to the middle pretty fast.
I've piled up a few rollouts in one video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3II1kX5bW90
You sir, are a genius.
[quote=Potatov]That wall is huge. Just what we needed to nerf those snipers. Though, it does look a bit out of place imo. Might need to blend it in some more.
Plus, I don't think that wall messes with rollouts that much. Makes it a bit harder? Yes. However, you can still arrive to the middle pretty fast.
I've piled up a few rollouts in one video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3II1kX5bW90[/quote]
You sir, are a genius.
i thing maybe becuse of the new midle point you can called it cockjam more than logjam hahahahaha
i thing maybe becuse of the new midle point you can called it cockjam more than logjam hahahahaha
(ignoring the weird arch) I see three main problems with mid.
- all of the high ground is along the outside
- all of the changes in height are the same size
- the dirt area in the middle is flat, why?
Decrease the size of the red area, increase the size of the green area as well as creating bigger changes in height.
http://i.imgur.com/hLggg64.jpg
Here's some sweet art.
http://i.imgur.com/xf658qc.jpg
(ignoring the weird arch) I see three main problems with mid.
- all of the high ground is along the outside
- all of the changes in height are the same size
- the dirt area in the middle is flat, why?
Decrease the size of the red area, increase the size of the green area as well as creating bigger changes in height.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hLggg64.jpg[/img]
Here's some sweet art.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/xf658qc.jpg[/img]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v513pe33hma39go/cp_logjam_b6f.bsp
Here's a version with a working middle control point... no fucking idea why it didn't work before, but it does now.
[url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/v513pe33hma39go/cp_logjam_b6f.bsp]https://www.dropbox.com/s/v513pe33hma39go/cp_logjam_b6f.bsp[/url]
Here's a version with a working middle control point... no fucking idea why it didn't work before, but it does now.
cp_logjam_b7
A few minor tweaks again- here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z93kyiowmgr3xl5/cp_logjam_b7.bsp
Changes:
A few more displacement fixes...
Some clipping stuff, particularly on the arch at 2nd
Removed the arch at mid
See sceenshots for the rest
Screens:
I added this little lean-to on 2nd covering the exit from plank room.
http://i.imgur.com/V1dJlw9.jpg
Why? Snipers could be all the way back in plank room and have a sightline onto choke without being committed, and this was the easiest way to fix that without ruining flow.
New sightline:
http://i.imgur.com/wmj7t0h.jpg
Not very good...
To shoot choke, the sniper must now stand here:
http://i.imgur.com/csioNvG.jpg
This way, he's more spammable and easier to catch out, so the sightline should be less OP.
2nd addition is a new height idea for mid:
http://i.imgur.com/pS3qKqi.jpg
I put a platform over the rock on mid. Yeah, it's not pretty but if it doesn't work I didn't waste time making it pretty and if it works I can detail it.
It should give soldiers a nice place to go that's closer to the point yet not being in the way or completely retarded like the arch.
http://i.imgur.com/y3fHsdz.jpg
There's also a stump there for scouts to fight around/on.
cp_logjam_b7
A few minor tweaks again- here's the link: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/z93kyiowmgr3xl5/cp_logjam_b7.bsp]https://www.dropbox.com/s/z93kyiowmgr3xl5/cp_logjam_b7.bsp[/url]
Changes:
A few more displacement fixes...
Some clipping stuff, particularly on the arch at 2nd
Removed the arch at mid
See sceenshots for the rest
Screens:
I added this little lean-to on 2nd covering the exit from plank room.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/V1dJlw9.jpg[/img]
Why? Snipers could be all the way back in plank room and have a sightline onto choke without being committed, and this was the easiest way to fix that without ruining flow.
New sightline: [img]http://i.imgur.com/wmj7t0h.jpg[/img]
Not very good...
To shoot choke, the sniper must now stand here:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/csioNvG.jpg[/img]
This way, he's more spammable and easier to catch out, so the sightline should be less OP.
2nd addition is a new height idea for mid:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pS3qKqi.jpg[/img]
I put a platform over the rock on mid. Yeah, it's not pretty but if it doesn't work I didn't waste time making it pretty and if it works I can detail it.
It should give soldiers a nice place to go that's closer to the point yet not being in the way or completely retarded like the arch.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/y3fHsdz.jpg[/img]
There's also a stump there for scouts to fight around/on.