The only thing about sticky jumping that helped me as demo is the mentality for pogoing, made it easier to M1+M2 in pubs basically.

They do help.
You learn the trajectory of stickies by doing jumpmaps. And you will be able to do every jump you have to with much more precision and prediction.

Just play demoman against good* opponents as much as you can, whether it's mge with someone that won't whine about stickies, dm, pugs, or scrims. If someone bitches about you using stickies in mge/dm, just play against someone else. As much as I hate stickies, i really need practice in fighting against them.

*you don't have to seek out legendary players and challenge them one by one to earn badges and advance to the elite 4, just make sure you're not fighting pubbers

there used to be a lot of invite players that were good at jumping but the standard of what it is to be "good" has changed drastically since a couple years ago, so a lot of that argument depends on what your idea of being good is to begin with. being good at demo jumping will help you with things to a certain extent but those things aren't really worth the time investment - it's like how being good at wallpogo on soldier will help you with having better wall jumps a lot of the time but wallpogo in itself is useless

that being said b4nny used to be relatively good - probably still "good" to most people who aren't actually considered to be jumpers

yeah, timing, strafing, sticky placement, accurate jumps, accurate movement, really aren´t worth the effort

who are you

We're just saying DMing, scrimming with your team, and pugging are much better ways to get good at demo than doing jump maps. Jump maps are fun and might help you improve a little bit but very few skills you learn in jump maps are applicable to the real game. Hell, even pubbing is better practice than jump maps.

Kaidus isn't a good demo jumper really when compared to actual speedrunners, One of the best demo jumpers is now div2/1 level

and im just saying jumping helps u not a little bit but a good bit, afterall he said he was interested in the demo mechanics.
He said he was a good solly so i´d assume he knows DM, MGE and pugging,and how helpful they are.
No one said that not DMing or pugging wouldnt be helpfull, ofc it is, its essential, its basic.
Only someone dumb would assume jumping or the top demo jumpers makes you good in every other instance of the game.
Saying dumb stuff like oh wallpogo doesn´t help you shoot stickies... No shit Sherlock
Non jumpers will always underrate practicing jump maps, if you ask someone who putted the time and effort in this small "section" of tf2, the answer will always be different.
practice, practice, practice, no other way around it

although i heard that if you beat an invite player in mge they're legally obligated to let you have their roster spot.

i used to be like one of the best demo jumpers in na but ok then

Your entire argument makes no sense.

THIS IS CONDUCTOR AND IMA SHOW U BASIC NIGGAS HOW TO DEMO POGO

I would also advise you to practise all of the staple rollouts for each map, trying to nail consistency. It can be hard to be consistent when you are in a real game, but the more prac the better. Related to this, practising useful sticky jumps to either get you a positional advantage, or get you out of the fight in a pickle, e.g. choke -> spire (defending and attacking).

As others have said, pugging is also great practice. It not only allows you to practice being by yourself more (forcing you to dm/play smart), it also allows you to practice your calling. Demoman is probably the easiest and best class to main call from (my opinion from experience on multiple seasons as every class).

Don't panic, be confident, have fun ☺

I like it.

With the 4 sticky cap demos basically always bottom score in dm. The sticky launcher is really good, but in DM, you don't actually have teammates that give a shit about you so everything rushes you (and spawns on top of you), and it's hard to finish frags without hitscan, which means you have awful regen. Also you take more self damage than anything else, so even if you 2pipe a scout you still have like 80 health.

Definitely put back the 2-stickies-out thing back. Traps are dumb and carpets are too.

I guess if everyone hates 8 stickies, maybe 6 is a good compromise? But I think it's a lot better now that demos actually have a chance to kill things and don't just get fucked whenever anything looks at them.

btw i don't play demo

positioning and movement is huge, using the objects on the map (boxes, trains, and even corners) to make a fight more in your favor. focus more on living instead of forcing damage (less time in spawn = potential for useful damage) and it will pay dividends early on for you

ill expand more when i have time

initial reload speed yes its the longest, demo is faster than soldier in terms of consecutively reloading ammo, but it takes more time to reload 4 rockets in a row than it does 4 stickies.

sounds like a bunch of bs

DM servers helped me get sharp for i52 (keep in mind i had not been playing for ~6 months prior) prac rollouts like james said and just have fun with it

edit: i also played a fuck load of mge vs triggerbotting rep and other good scouts which prob helped me get good at those "sticky pipe combos"

yeah just play against cheaters and youll get good in no time

nah just dont take advice from mediocre players on tf2 forums

paging geknaiir for dunk gifs

jump maps was like the only thing i did to practice demo

http://clutch.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/supermandunkhires.gif

thank you geknaiir

Learn maps, like knowing all the sticky trap spots, spam arcs, optimal positioning areas, bugs/glitches etc. Are all pretty important. I think one of the main reasons why I did this is because I remember playing against LMS. They had Hitman playing demo, my team went to mid and got fucking wrecked by pipes coming out of ramp room. The guy knew the timings out of all the exits for maps. Since then I've started to learn maps more than anything.

For rollouts I just watched numlockeds demos.

I honestly believe that MGE vs scouts is really helpful as demo, because there are tons of situations where you're doin normal mid range demo spam and a scout forces you to DM him, and being able to shift from just spamming to actively DMing a scout on a moment's notice means that having that muscle memory (as termo said, the sticky-pipe combo) is really useful

from my experience, good players will always be willing to MGE a demo, whereas MGE shitlords will complain and ragequit. I have never seen a current or former invite player ever complain about stickies, with one exception who shall remain nameless, but suffice it to say he's really washed up.

edit: I feel I also need to add that pipes only anything is just a ridiculous waste of everybody's time. it won't make you better, it won't make your opponent better, might as well just never do that ever.

l o l

the realest demos just join cp_orange with sticky jumper, quad pogo to enemy spawn (be sure to land on a detted stick so you dont take fall damage) and just 2pipe everyone. optimal training method imo.

which part?

sift your stats from I52 and you will notice a correlation between deaths to damage (i saw 1 log in which u died less than opposing demo and failed to out damage them)

as for movement im pretty certain you kite objects/turn corners to avoid damage or to create space to make a fight easier seeing as your on a class which is good for denial

2v2 MGE is good for demo, i think. Not that im a great demo. but you get some of the positional, spam timing stuff and some of the direct fighting stuff mixed in there.

practicing pipes only you'll get better a lot slower but godlike pipe dm makes you a sexier person so... tradeoffs.

playing ur position right and knowing when / when not to take heals, reload, spam, etc is also very very important on demo. Want to have good survivability? have shit loaded for any bad situation you might come across -- it involves playing smarter.

but as far as pure mechanics go, practice controlling enemy movement with stickies (that means dont do pipes only), surfing (because you have to lessen your dmg taken during team fights), and having a clip loaded.

also, changing your alias off "poop toaster" will immediately move you up one div in skill :D

LOL

YOU SUCK