i was just talking to a friend of mine and ever since i have been playing comp tf2 (which is about a year) the esea pugs have been dead. Why is that? were other pug systems like pug.na and what not more appealing because they are free or was it for a different reason?
Upvote
Upvoted
7
Downvote
Downvoted
when was the last time we used esea pugs
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
i was just talking to a friend of mine and ever since i have been playing comp tf2 (which is about a year) the esea pugs have been dead. Why is that? were other pug systems like pug.na and what not more appealing because they are free or was it for a different reason?
Community won't use the ESEA pug system because it's considered bad. ESEA won't improve the quality until people start using it for TF2.
That's basically it, others should be able to describe in more detail though.
Community won't use the ESEA pug system because it's considered bad. ESEA won't improve the quality until people start using it for TF2.
That's basically it, others should be able to describe in more detail though.
That's basically it, others should be able to describe in more detail though.
one thing about pug.na is that you can choose from more than 12 players. in esea pugs, if someone joined that had never played TF2 before, the teams would be imbalanced and the new player wouldn't have any fun. in pug.na, there's generally a few left-over players, ensuring that the pug is usually pretty balanced.
also, if you crash unexpectedly in pug.na, you can still rejoin and be fine. in esea, you get a temp ban and you can't rejoin for x amount of time.
few other things that should be implemented:
- mumble "hub" for esea, similar to the pug.na mumble that everyone uses. nobody wants to use in game voice chat.
- dm mod
- more control given to trusted players, that way people who are being really obnoxious or intentionally ruining the pug can be dealt with
one thing about pug.na is that you can choose from more than 12 players. in esea pugs, if someone joined that had never played TF2 before, the teams would be imbalanced and the new player wouldn't have any fun. in pug.na, there's generally a few left-over players, ensuring that the pug is usually pretty balanced.
also, if you crash unexpectedly in pug.na, you can still rejoin and be fine. in esea, you get a temp ban and you can't rejoin for x amount of time.
[u]few other things that should be implemented: [/u]
- mumble "hub" for esea, similar to the pug.na mumble that everyone uses. nobody wants to use in game voice chat.
- dm mod
- more control given to trusted players, that way people who are being really obnoxious or intentionally ruining the pug can be dealt with
also, if you crash unexpectedly in pug.na, you can still rejoin and be fine. in esea, you get a temp ban and you can't rejoin for x amount of time.
[u]few other things that should be implemented: [/u]
- mumble "hub" for esea, similar to the pug.na mumble that everyone uses. nobody wants to use in game voice chat.
- dm mod
- more control given to trusted players, that way people who are being really obnoxious or intentionally ruining the pug can be dealt with
The ESEA pug servers are shit, from what I remember.
The ESEA pug servers are shit, from what I remember.
hookyESEA won't improve the quality until people start using it for TF2.
not true. I talked to Torbull at LAN and he's willing to do whatever it takes (within reason) to get them going.
so to you guys:
what concrete changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?
[quote=hooky]ESEA won't improve the quality until people start using it for TF2.[/quote]
not true. I talked to Torbull at LAN and he's willing to do whatever it takes (within reason) to get them going.
so to you guys:
what [i]concrete[/i] changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?
not true. I talked to Torbull at LAN and he's willing to do whatever it takes (within reason) to get them going.
so to you guys:
what [i]concrete[/i] changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?
Yeah, I think we should really start pushing for the scrim mod. I would love to start scrimming on esea client. I've tried pushed for it in the past, but the map selections weren't there, I think this time around it will be different though. Anyone tried the scrim servers recently?
Yeah, I think we should really start pushing for the scrim mod. I would love to start scrimming on esea client. I've tried pushed for it in the past, but the map selections weren't there, I think this time around it will be different though. Anyone tried the scrim servers recently?
Last time I pugged on the ESEA client, we played Dustbowl Pro.
I last pugged on the ESEA client a few months ago.
Last time I pugged on the ESEA client, we played Dustbowl Pro.
I last pugged on the ESEA client a few months ago.
I last pugged on the ESEA client a few months ago.
i think the pug system is fine. during the season when the majority of the community has premium we should take advantage of them. i know we stopped using them for invite pugs for a couple reasons.
1 was the no spectator slots. you would end up with 5 people auto-retrying to try and get into the pugs so if someone crashed they could never get back in.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.
once the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
and yeah ty i agree i thought the esea scrim mod would be handy and for some teams that would mean not having to buy a server for the season.
i think the pug system is fine. during the season when the majority of the community has premium we should take advantage of them. i know we stopped using them for invite pugs for a couple reasons.
1 was the no spectator slots. you would end up with 5 people auto-retrying to try and get into the pugs so if someone crashed they could never get back in.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.
once the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
and yeah ty i agree i thought the esea scrim mod would be handy and for some teams that would mean not having to buy a server for the season.
1 was the no spectator slots. you would end up with 5 people auto-retrying to try and get into the pugs so if someone crashed they could never get back in.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.
once the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
and yeah ty i agree i thought the esea scrim mod would be handy and for some teams that would mean not having to buy a server for the season.
The real question is why should you use the ESEA pug system? What does it offer that the other options dont.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.
The real question is why should you use the ESEA pug system? What does it offer that the other options dont.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.
MemphisVonThe real question is why should you use the ESEA pug system? What does it offer that the other options dont.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.
using esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period. if we want bigger prize pools and a larger community, we have to bring people to ESEA. the majority of the money that comes to the league is from premium fees, and a majority of the premium users that play CS don't actually play in the leagues.
[quote=MemphisVon]The real question is why should you use the ESEA pug system? What does it offer that the other options dont.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.[/quote]
using esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period. if we want bigger prize pools and a larger community, we have to bring people to ESEA. the majority of the money that comes to the league is from premium fees, and a majority of the premium users that play CS don't actually play in the leagues.
Also, if I want to pug with a friend who doesn't have premium I can't.[/quote]
using esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period. if we want bigger prize pools and a larger community, we have to bring people to ESEA. the majority of the money that comes to the league is from premium fees, and a majority of the premium users that play CS don't actually play in the leagues.
we did ESEA pugs for a while but there would be so many people in mumble (at least 20 or more) wanting to play. it got to a point where it would be a race to the server. and everyone just sat on auto-join. if someone dropped someone would just jack their spot and it just got too messy or some random person would join and yes it would be very lopsided. especially if it was a newer player or a cs player, not saying we have to disregard newer players or make them feel not welcome but obviously they're better off in the tf2mix channel or pug na till they get a better feel for 6s
in house pugs you have more control over whats going on, no crappy client, more people have a chance to play and its free. thats pretty much what it came down to. ESEA wasn't that bad because it was cool being able to win prizes, but not everyone has premium, the prizes aren't great anymore (not that it matters that much)
we did ESEA pugs for a while but there would be so many people in mumble (at least 20 or more) wanting to play. it got to a point where it would be a race to the server. and everyone just sat on auto-join. if someone dropped someone would just jack their spot and it just got too messy or some random person would join and yes it would be very lopsided. especially if it was a newer player or a cs player, not saying we have to disregard newer players or make them feel not welcome but obviously they're better off in the tf2mix channel or pug na till they get a better feel for 6s
in house pugs you have more control over whats going on, no crappy client, more people have a chance to play and its free. thats pretty much what it came down to. ESEA wasn't that bad because it was cool being able to win prizes, but not everyone has premium, the prizes aren't great anymore (not that it matters that much)
in house pugs you have more control over whats going on, no crappy client, more people have a chance to play and its free. thats pretty much what it came down to. ESEA wasn't that bad because it was cool being able to win prizes, but not everyone has premium, the prizes aren't great anymore (not that it matters that much)
seanbudonce the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
freemium?
[quote=seanbud]
once the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
[/quote]
freemium?
once the freemium starts back up i can try getting some going.
[/quote]
freemium?
lanskyusing esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period.
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.
[quote=lansky]using esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period.[/quote]
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.
I found the esea pugs to be perfectly fine until we had an infection of CS players who would kill the pug. I'm fine with playing in a league to support something I'm already paying for every season.
I found the esea pugs to be perfectly fine until we had an infection of CS players who would kill the pug. I'm fine with playing in a league to support something I'm already paying for every season.
anjirocoolfreemium?
[quote=anjirocool]
freemium?[/quote]
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=support&d=faq&id=16
freemium?[/quote]
http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=support&d=faq&id=16
MemphisVonNo it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.
He's not talking about them in their current state. Lobbies are a joke, tf2mix is mostly new players, and pugna is either all IM-invite players or all openlords at any given time.
The newbie mixes are currently the best pugs we have going on, because they bring in new people, attempt to bridge skill gaps, are easy to get into and don't cost anything.
enigmawhat concrete changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?
The only pugs I've played in have been from friends asking me to join them; other than that, I just don't see a reason to use ESEA, as they don't really do anything to make it easier than jumping into IRC and waiting around to get picked.
Things to add:
1. Pre-game deathmatch (obv)
2. Some way of deciding teams/classes through the website/client perhaps.
3. TF2 crashes for a lot of people; it's already been mentioned that you can't leave the pug without there being consequences. There should be some grace period for people to reconnect.
4. As far as I know, there's no sub system for pugs in case someone has to leave, but I can't be positive on this one.
[quote=MemphisVon]No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.[/quote]
He's not talking about them in their current state. Lobbies are a joke, tf2mix is mostly new players, and pugna is either all IM-invite players or all openlords at any given time.
The newbie mixes are currently the best pugs we have going on, because they bring in new people, attempt to bridge skill gaps, are easy to get into and don't cost anything.
[quote=enigma]what [i]concrete[/i] changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?[/quote]
The only pugs I've played in have been from friends asking me to join them; other than that, I just don't see a reason to use ESEA, as they don't really do anything to make it easier than jumping into IRC and waiting around to get picked.
Things to add:
1. Pre-game deathmatch (obv)
2. Some way of deciding teams/classes through the website/client perhaps.
3. TF2 crashes for a lot of people; it's already been mentioned that you can't leave the pug without there being consequences. There should be some grace period for people to reconnect.
4. As far as I know, there's no sub system for pugs in case someone has to leave, but I can't be positive on this one.
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.[/quote]
He's not talking about them in their current state. Lobbies are a joke, tf2mix is mostly new players, and pugna is either all IM-invite players or all openlords at any given time.
The newbie mixes are currently the best pugs we have going on, because they bring in new people, attempt to bridge skill gaps, are easy to get into and don't cost anything.
[quote=enigma]what [i]concrete[/i] changes to the ESEA pug system would make you use it over the alternatives?[/quote]
The only pugs I've played in have been from friends asking me to join them; other than that, I just don't see a reason to use ESEA, as they don't really do anything to make it easier than jumping into IRC and waiting around to get picked.
Things to add:
1. Pre-game deathmatch (obv)
2. Some way of deciding teams/classes through the website/client perhaps.
3. TF2 crashes for a lot of people; it's already been mentioned that you can't leave the pug without there being consequences. There should be some grace period for people to reconnect.
4. As far as I know, there's no sub system for pugs in case someone has to leave, but I can't be positive on this one.
MemphisVonlanskyusing esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period.
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.
He worded it wrong but has the right idea. ESEA doesn't bring in any new people to the competitive scene, and I can't say that it will in the future, but if we help grow ESEA-TF2 then the scene might get more recognition and grow from there. ESEA as an organization would also pay more attention and be more invested into the scene.
[quote=MemphisVon][quote=lansky]using esea pugs bring more players and more money to the game. period.[/quote]
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.[/quote]
He worded it wrong but has the right idea. ESEA doesn't bring in any new people to the competitive scene, and I can't say that it will in the future, but if we help grow ESEA-TF2 then the scene might get more recognition and grow from there. ESEA as an organization would also pay more attention and be more invested into the scene.
No it doesn't. When was the last time you heard someone say that they are playing TF2 because of ESEA pugs?
It will bring more money yes but not more players. There is currently no reason for a new player to want to play an ESEA pug over a pugna, tf2mix, or lobby.[/quote]
He worded it wrong but has the right idea. ESEA doesn't bring in any new people to the competitive scene, and I can't say that it will in the future, but if we help grow ESEA-TF2 then the scene might get more recognition and grow from there. ESEA as an organization would also pay more attention and be more invested into the scene.
Also scrim servers, I think ESEA should do a promotion before Season 13 where as long as you create a team with at least 1 person on the team having premium, your team has the ability to use the scrim server/client and scrimming other teams. Alot of the UGC 6's teams can switch over and realize what all the buzz is about the stats/damage/stv and the structure ESEA offers.
For those of you that don't know, you can create multiple clubs/scrim teams without actually registering them for league so if you wish to pug-scrim with players who haven't used esea before, have them create an account and join your club/team page. I think if these services were used in tandem with UGC mixes and stuff, it could bring a lot of exposure to our leagues and we could see a potential explosion in new members.
I think if most competitive teams got on these servers and used this service, it would create more incentive to teams to join up and play against the better teams on client. I feel like most UGC teams have no idea how to use and navigate through the site, and doing this will help ease a ton of players into the system.
Also scrim servers, I think ESEA should do a promotion before Season 13 where as long as you create a team with at least 1 person on the team having premium, your team has the ability to use the scrim server/client and scrimming other teams. Alot of the UGC 6's teams can switch over and realize what all the buzz is about the stats/damage/stv and the structure ESEA offers.
For those of you that don't know, you can create multiple clubs/scrim teams without actually registering them for league so if you wish to pug-scrim with players who haven't used esea before, have them create an account and join your club/team page. I think if these services were used in tandem with UGC mixes and stuff, it could bring a lot of exposure to our leagues and we could see a potential explosion in new members.
I think if most competitive teams got on these servers and used this service, it would create more incentive to teams to join up and play against the better teams on client. I feel like most UGC teams have no idea how to use and navigate through the site, and doing this will help ease a ton of players into the system.
For those of you that don't know, you can create multiple clubs/scrim teams without actually registering them for league so if you wish to pug-scrim with players who haven't used esea before, have them create an account and join your club/team page. I think if these services were used in tandem with UGC mixes and stuff, it could bring a lot of exposure to our leagues and we could see a potential explosion in new members.
I think if most competitive teams got on these servers and used this service, it would create more incentive to teams to join up and play against the better teams on client. I feel like most UGC teams have no idea how to use and navigate through the site, and doing this will help ease a ton of players into the system.
ESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?
ESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?
kirbyESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?
I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.
[quote=kirby]ESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?[/quote]
I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.
I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.
everything defy said, + NOBODY WANTS TO IDLE IN A TF2 SERVER WAITING FOR A PUG TO START
everything defy said, + NOBODY WANTS TO IDLE IN A TF2 SERVER WAITING FOR A PUG TO START
seanbud1 was the no spectator slots. you would end up with 5 people auto-retrying to try and get into the pugs so if someone crashed they could never get back in.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.
I could write an essay about ESEA PUGs but I will mostly reply to what Sean said because he's making very good points. Here's my quick opinion on the subject; I think they aren't working because the competitive community is still too small/young for this kind of system. Anyway, Sean is saying that having no spectator slot is painful because people crash here and there in TF2 and you always lose your spot when you try to come back. This is something I knew was an issue but I never figured out a way to fix it simply and I have an idea now. I will talk to Torbull about it.
The other issue could be improved but this one is more human than technical. I have some ideas but I think having more TF2 admins (active) with a tighter relation with the head admins at ESEA could fix that issue. On my side I've never felt very confident about banning an user, the only time I've done it was because the guy could not have done worst, he went spy 100% of the game, plus, he was terrible. The head admins at ESEA do not play TF2 and it's hard for them to understand what breaks a PUG. I could have banned/kicked players for so many reasons (not able to rollout, not knowing the map, not knowing how to use a weapong, etc...) but overall it was just that the guys were complete beginners trying to play a game in a top level setup. TF2 was too young and is still young, we never really defined what were the minimums (rules) for a player in a decent game, simply explaining that the guy is bad isn't an appropriate explanation. We are all still learning.
technosexeverything defy said, + NOBODY WANTS TO IDLE IN A TF2 SERVER WAITING FOR A PUG TO START
I coded a tool for that but nobody really used it. Maybe it wasn't really good, I could not tell.
[quote=seanbud]1 was the no spectator slots. you would end up with 5 people auto-retrying to try and get into the pugs so if someone crashed they could never get back in.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.[/quote]
I could write an essay about ESEA PUGs but I will mostly reply to what Sean said because he's making very good points. Here's my quick opinion on the subject; I think they aren't working because the competitive community is still too small/young for this kind of system. Anyway, Sean is saying that having no spectator slot is painful because people crash here and there in TF2 and you always lose your spot when you try to come back. This is something I knew was an issue but I never figured out a way to fix it simply and I have an idea now. I will talk to Torbull about it.
The other issue could be improved but this one is more human than technical. I have some ideas but I think having more TF2 admins (active) with a tighter relation with the head admins at ESEA could fix that issue. On my side I've never felt very confident about banning an user, the only time I've done it was because the guy could not have done worst, he went spy 100% of the game, plus, he was terrible. The head admins at ESEA do not play TF2 and it's hard for them to understand what breaks a PUG. I could have banned/kicked players for so many reasons (not able to rollout, not knowing the map, not knowing how to use a weapong, etc...) but overall it was just that the guys were complete beginners trying to play a game in a top level setup. TF2 was too young and is still young, we never really defined what were the minimums (rules) for a player in a decent game, simply explaining that the guy is bad isn't an appropriate explanation. We are all still learning.
[quote=technosex]everything defy said, + NOBODY WANTS TO IDLE IN A TF2 SERVER WAITING FOR A PUG TO START[/quote]
I coded a tool for that but nobody really used it. Maybe it wasn't really good, I could not tell.
the other main reason some people did not like them was that there were sometimes CS players that would come in and play, and they would not use mumble and just in general some people(mackey) hated them and would insult them non stop. i think the pug system encourages new players to try playing and i remember when i was a little CS newbie i would get a boner when one of the pros joined my team. personally i think this could be a good thing for community growth.[/quote]
I could write an essay about ESEA PUGs but I will mostly reply to what Sean said because he's making very good points. Here's my quick opinion on the subject; I think they aren't working because the competitive community is still too small/young for this kind of system. Anyway, Sean is saying that having no spectator slot is painful because people crash here and there in TF2 and you always lose your spot when you try to come back. This is something I knew was an issue but I never figured out a way to fix it simply and I have an idea now. I will talk to Torbull about it.
The other issue could be improved but this one is more human than technical. I have some ideas but I think having more TF2 admins (active) with a tighter relation with the head admins at ESEA could fix that issue. On my side I've never felt very confident about banning an user, the only time I've done it was because the guy could not have done worst, he went spy 100% of the game, plus, he was terrible. The head admins at ESEA do not play TF2 and it's hard for them to understand what breaks a PUG. I could have banned/kicked players for so many reasons (not able to rollout, not knowing the map, not knowing how to use a weapong, etc...) but overall it was just that the guys were complete beginners trying to play a game in a top level setup. TF2 was too young and is still young, we never really defined what were the minimums (rules) for a player in a decent game, simply explaining that the guy is bad isn't an appropriate explanation. We are all still learning.
[quote=technosex]everything defy said, + NOBODY WANTS TO IDLE IN A TF2 SERVER WAITING FOR A PUG TO START[/quote]
I coded a tool for that but nobody really used it. Maybe it wasn't really good, I could not tell.
kirbyESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?
There was a group of people who attempted to play the ESEA pugs recently just for the prizes and it seems that they only got some cheap gift cards out of it.
I do like the stat system that it offers. It's much neater and more organized than most log parsers, as well as track your progress through the season.
[quote=kirby]ESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?[/quote]
There was a group of people who attempted to play the ESEA pugs recently just for the prizes and it seems that they only got some cheap gift cards out of it.
I do like the stat system that it offers. It's much neater and more organized than most log parsers, as well as track your progress through the season.
There was a group of people who attempted to play the ESEA pugs recently just for the prizes and it seems that they only got some cheap gift cards out of it.
I do like the stat system that it offers. It's much neater and more organized than most log parsers, as well as track your progress through the season.
dMenacekirbyESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.
When we were actively doing ESEA pugs a couple seasons ago their prizes were nicer: a videocard for most points, a headset for most ubers, and a mouse/mousepad for most captures. Shortly after we stopped using the system, they reduced the prizes to just 3 mousepad coupons. I could see them upgrading/expanding the prizes if it was used more.
[quote=dMenace][quote=kirby]ESEA pugs used to be fun. Possibly a question unrelated as I cannot remember if pugs play a role in this but, can you still get prizes or whatever from ESEA?[/quote]
I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.[/quote]
When we were actively doing ESEA pugs a couple seasons ago their prizes were nicer: a videocard for most points, a headset for most ubers, and a mouse/mousepad for most captures. Shortly after we stopped using the system, they reduced the prizes to just 3 mousepad coupons. I could see them upgrading/expanding the prizes if it was used more.
I think so, but at best a mousepad or a shitty mouse.[/quote]
When we were actively doing ESEA pugs a couple seasons ago their prizes were nicer: a videocard for most points, a headset for most ubers, and a mouse/mousepad for most captures. Shortly after we stopped using the system, they reduced the prizes to just 3 mousepad coupons. I could see them upgrading/expanding the prizes if it was used more.
i wish esea tf2 pugs didn't require premium, because i feel like at their current state, they are not worth paying money for at all
i don't have time to play on a team because of my school workload, and i feel like there's no reason to pay for a worse service than the free ones that are available
this topic always pops up here and there, but esea still doesn't do anything on their part.. the last thing i remember them adding to the pugging feature is pre-game dm
i wish esea tf2 pugs didn't require premium, because i feel like at their current state, they are not worth paying money for at all
i don't have time to play on a team because of my school workload, and i feel like there's no reason to pay for a worse service than the free ones that are available
this topic always pops up here and there, but esea still doesn't do anything on their part.. the last thing i remember them adding to the pugging feature is pre-game dm
i don't have time to play on a team because of my school workload, and i feel like there's no reason to pay for a worse service than the free ones that are available
this topic always pops up here and there, but esea still doesn't do anything on their part.. the last thing i remember them adding to the pugging feature is pre-game dm
Long post coming.
I think Killing would have an aneurysm at some of the facts thrown out in this thread that are actually false, lol. There is pre-game DM, there is a mumble hub ("Voice" tab on your client), and the advantage of ESEA pugs is the same advantage of playing in the ESEA league - integrated stats, stv demo, etc. Yes, other places (tf2logs) offer the same thing, but there are also other leagues... we choose to praise ESEA the league for the things it offers, but shrug off the ESEA pugs for offering the same thing... *shrug* the logic there is a bit fuzzy. I do get the point about CS kids ruining the fun, but let's be honest... what if 1 out of every 10 CS kids who randomly joined a pug started actually playing competitive TF2? Isn't growth like that a good thing?
As far as the scrim mod goes, I overheard someone (I think Tyrone?) asking Craig about it this past weekend - his answer was very direct and to the point:
"I'm totally down to push for a scrim mod, I want to continue to support TF2, we've made a commitment to the community. The problem is, if I go push for the man hours for an engineer to code a scrim mod and then no one uses it, it looks bad on me, looks bad on TF2, I lose internal leverage to help TF2 in the future, and the TF2 community loses leverage when it asks for things in the future."
Say what you will about Eric, his reasoning is pretty solid - they spent man hours (ie. resources) on building a pug system no one uses. Why go spend more man hours to build a scrim mod that also may go unused? As a gesture of good faith? I don't want to put words in Eric's mouth, but I would think a business guy like him has little time for such gestures.
We as a community, on the other hand, would be wise to consider our own "gesture of good faith" by starting to use the ESEA pug system, because it leads to other things. I guarantee you if the ESEA pugs were an active program, Craig would have more leverage to push for a scrim mod. If ESEA then had an active pug and scrim mod program, there would be more leverage for greater prize pots (assuming there's some growth in the user base).
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the preference to IRC pugs, but there are no long-term benefits to that system whatsoever, aside from players getting a bit better and the odd new player maybe getting into TF2. With the ESEA pug system, as least there's the possibility of a long term benefit, right? Can someone on the other side of this debate at least acknowledge that point?
EDIT: Oh, and if someone throws out the "because we pay for it" argument, I may have to donkeypunch you - half of the TF2 community signed up for ESEA gets freemium anyway, and the league fees go directly to the prize pots, sooo...
Long post coming.
I think Killing would have an aneurysm at some of the facts thrown out in this thread that are actually false, lol. There is pre-game DM, there is a mumble hub ("Voice" tab on your client), and the advantage of ESEA pugs is the same advantage of playing in the ESEA league - integrated stats, stv demo, etc. Yes, other places (tf2logs) offer the same thing, but there are also other leagues... we choose to praise ESEA the league for the things it offers, but shrug off the ESEA pugs for offering the same thing... *shrug* the logic there is a bit fuzzy. I do get the point about CS kids ruining the fun, but let's be honest... what if 1 out of every 10 CS kids who randomly joined a pug started actually playing competitive TF2? Isn't growth like that a good thing?
As far as the scrim mod goes, I overheard someone (I think Tyrone?) asking Craig about it this past weekend - his answer was very direct and to the point:
"I'm totally down to push for a scrim mod, I want to continue to support TF2, we've made a commitment to the community. The problem is, if I go push for the man hours for an engineer to code a scrim mod and then no one uses it, it looks bad on me, looks bad on TF2, I lose internal leverage to help TF2 in the future, and the TF2 community loses leverage when it asks for things in the future."
Say what you will about Eric, his reasoning is pretty solid - they spent man hours (ie. resources) on building a pug system no one uses. Why go spend more man hours to build a scrim mod that also may go unused? As a gesture of good faith? I don't want to put words in Eric's mouth, but I would think a business guy like him has little time for such gestures.
We as a community, on the other hand, would be wise to consider our own "gesture of good faith" by starting to use the ESEA pug system, because it leads to other things. I guarantee you if the ESEA pugs were an active program, Craig would have more leverage to push for a scrim mod. If ESEA then had an active pug and scrim mod program, there would be more leverage for greater prize pots (assuming there's some growth in the user base).
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the preference to IRC pugs, but there are no long-term benefits to that system whatsoever, aside from players getting a bit better and the odd new player maybe getting into TF2. With the ESEA pug system, as least there's the [i]possibility[/i] of a long term benefit, right? Can someone on the other side of this debate at least acknowledge that point?
EDIT: Oh, and if someone throws out the "because we pay for it" argument, I may have to donkeypunch you - half of the TF2 community signed up for ESEA gets freemium anyway, and the league fees go directly to the prize pots, sooo...
I think Killing would have an aneurysm at some of the facts thrown out in this thread that are actually false, lol. There is pre-game DM, there is a mumble hub ("Voice" tab on your client), and the advantage of ESEA pugs is the same advantage of playing in the ESEA league - integrated stats, stv demo, etc. Yes, other places (tf2logs) offer the same thing, but there are also other leagues... we choose to praise ESEA the league for the things it offers, but shrug off the ESEA pugs for offering the same thing... *shrug* the logic there is a bit fuzzy. I do get the point about CS kids ruining the fun, but let's be honest... what if 1 out of every 10 CS kids who randomly joined a pug started actually playing competitive TF2? Isn't growth like that a good thing?
As far as the scrim mod goes, I overheard someone (I think Tyrone?) asking Craig about it this past weekend - his answer was very direct and to the point:
"I'm totally down to push for a scrim mod, I want to continue to support TF2, we've made a commitment to the community. The problem is, if I go push for the man hours for an engineer to code a scrim mod and then no one uses it, it looks bad on me, looks bad on TF2, I lose internal leverage to help TF2 in the future, and the TF2 community loses leverage when it asks for things in the future."
Say what you will about Eric, his reasoning is pretty solid - they spent man hours (ie. resources) on building a pug system no one uses. Why go spend more man hours to build a scrim mod that also may go unused? As a gesture of good faith? I don't want to put words in Eric's mouth, but I would think a business guy like him has little time for such gestures.
We as a community, on the other hand, would be wise to consider our own "gesture of good faith" by starting to use the ESEA pug system, because it leads to other things. I guarantee you if the ESEA pugs were an active program, Craig would have more leverage to push for a scrim mod. If ESEA then had an active pug and scrim mod program, there would be more leverage for greater prize pots (assuming there's some growth in the user base).
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the preference to IRC pugs, but there are no long-term benefits to that system whatsoever, aside from players getting a bit better and the odd new player maybe getting into TF2. With the ESEA pug system, as least there's the [i]possibility[/i] of a long term benefit, right? Can someone on the other side of this debate at least acknowledge that point?
EDIT: Oh, and if someone throws out the "because we pay for it" argument, I may have to donkeypunch you - half of the TF2 community signed up for ESEA gets freemium anyway, and the league fees go directly to the prize pots, sooo...
About ESEA's stats pages: they're pretty dated, to be honest. It's not that hard to take all of the data that obviously exists and turn it into something a bit prettier and more useful than what's already displayed. Every alternative to ESEA pugs feature a better stats system by providing things like kill matrices, classes played, round summaries (how control points were captured, etc.) and such. TF2Lobby has been around for years, but still has the best stats page simply because it displays more than numbers. I can understand if ESEA doesn't want to make drastic website changes to include fancy jquery charts and graphs, but at least include more information than what's there. Things that are useful to know are healing spreads, KA/D (much more important than KD), classes played, weapons used. All of this information is recorded but not displayed, and would just be nice to look at - especially for players just learning the game.
Also, last time I did a pug there was no pre-game DM; if there is, why don't match servers have it?
About ESEA's stats pages: they're pretty dated, to be honest. It's not that hard to take all of the data that obviously exists and turn it into something a bit prettier and more useful than what's already displayed. Every alternative to ESEA pugs feature a better stats system by providing things like kill matrices, classes played, round summaries (how control points were captured, etc.) and such. TF2Lobby has been around for years, but still has the best stats page simply because it displays more than numbers. I can understand if ESEA doesn't want to make drastic website changes to include fancy jquery charts and graphs, but at least include more information than what's there. Things that are useful to know are healing spreads, KA/D (much more important than KD), classes played, weapons used. All of this information is recorded but not displayed, and would just be nice to look at - especially for players just learning the game.
Also, last time I did a pug there was no pre-game DM; if there is, why don't match servers have it?
Also, last time I did a pug there was no pre-game DM; if there is, why don't match servers have it?
The reason the current system does not work is because, once again, they're forcing something that works for CS onto us. Yes, some functionality has been added to accommodate us but what ESEA really needs is some kind of lobby. Somewhere users can idle like an IRC channel and signup/wait for the next pug. This solves
Reduced Wait Times...
1. Waiting for players in game - some wait times exceeded an hour to play before
2. Class selection - assigned classes before entering the pug
Ease of Use...
3. Localized information on current and upcoming pugs
4. Communication between players/admins - message timmy to get the fuck in mumble
5. Allows notifications and access to subs
Control Over System...
6. Admins can view current players and restrict/ban obstructive players
7. Balance of teams and opportunities for different level pugs open-im-invite etc
Yes, the idea of a "lobby" would be a horrendous thing to suggest to ESEA. How do they implement something like this into their client?
The reason the current system does not work is because, once again, they're forcing something that works for CS onto us. Yes, some functionality has been added to accommodate us but what ESEA really needs is some kind of lobby. Somewhere users can idle like an IRC channel and signup/wait for the next pug. This solves
Reduced Wait Times...
1. Waiting for players in game - some wait times exceeded an hour to play before
2. Class selection - assigned classes before entering the pug
Ease of Use...
3. Localized information on current and upcoming pugs
4. Communication between players/admins - message timmy to get the fuck in mumble
5. Allows notifications and access to subs
Control Over System...
6. Admins can view current players and restrict/ban obstructive players
7. Balance of teams and opportunities for different level pugs open-im-invite etc
Yes, the idea of a "lobby" would be a horrendous thing to suggest to ESEA. How do they implement something like this into their client?
Reduced Wait Times...
1. Waiting for players in game - some wait times exceeded an hour to play before
2. Class selection - assigned classes before entering the pug
Ease of Use...
3. Localized information on current and upcoming pugs
4. Communication between players/admins - message timmy to get the fuck in mumble
5. Allows notifications and access to subs
Control Over System...
6. Admins can view current players and restrict/ban obstructive players
7. Balance of teams and opportunities for different level pugs open-im-invite etc
Yes, the idea of a "lobby" would be a horrendous thing to suggest to ESEA. How do they implement something like this into their client?
Please
sign in through STEAM
to post a comment.