Detailing progress so far, b12 (maybe RC1?!?!?!?) should be out by January.

http://i.imgur.com/fUeJXRR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/50npbVC.jpg

The big quintuple post...

cp_logjam_b12

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/065u9ilih4r7zw4/cp_logjam_b12.bsp?dl=0

Changes:
-Removed a small health kit on each side of mid by forward spawns
-Swapped health and ammo on mid back to the way they have always been
-Fixed up displacements by choke and logroom (thank you wareya!!!)
-Made the ceiling in rollout make more sense
-Fixed the roof on mid not being surf-able
-Removed redundant sniper sightline blocker at nd
-Added some crates at mid
-Polished up 2nd spire, plank room, and 2nd area (this is NOT RC level detail yet!)

Screens:

http://i.imgur.com/jNz8zE8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2a6L2Sg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9X0hItg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lg8bfVI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jqwM6Ix.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uhJvnGO.jpg

looks great

looks so much better than before hyce, good job

http://img.pandawhale.com/46316-Its-beautiful-WnKi.jpeg

The wonderful people of ETF2L pointed out that I'm a really shitty mapper and the map had a bunch of little things wrong with it...

HOTFIX INBOUND...

cp_logjam_b13 (yes this makes more sense)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1n719vsqvojwor/cp_logjam_b13.bsp?dl=0

Fixed nothing in plank room being clipped (hilarious roamer spots)
Fixed getting stuck on the displacement by the log ramp at 2nd.

Changes (b12f):
-Fixed a major ramp being missing at blue second
-Fixed a rock clipping through into logroom
-Raised and clipped the roof above the high exit from 2nd (so it seems less like you should be able to jump on it)
-Modifed some textures at last to look a bit better (this will be ultimately fixed when I do a real artpass at last, coming soon)
-Fixed a few displacement errors in cave
-Fixed the building after blue cave by mid being not the same as the red one (this has been in for like 6 versions and no one noticed? not even me? the ramp geometry is similar but very different... lol)
-Blockbulleted a prop you could walk/shoot through at 2nd (god dammit valve why u no collision model)
-Lowered and adjusted clipping on a pulley on 2nd spire for scouts
-Removed a small healthkit by blue forwards on mid AGAIN... must've been doubled lol
-Did not do a few small texture fixes because they require a lot more thought than just changing one texture. Will be fixed in future artpass.
-I couldn't actually see any displacement errors in choke, but I smoothed out each seem anyways
-Redid the gravel displacement at 2nd so that the edges sow properly and smoothed it out in places

Can't you just call it b13...

That'd make too much sense. Done. We won't talk about the map suffixes that an older map I made got, I ended up naming it with something like _a13_ffbmiafbal or something like that to spite a friend.

Oh

http://i.imgur.com/yU24knl.png

Ah

http://i.imgur.com/p6fWXRU.png

Only on BLU second

Okay. I was too quick on the draw to fix things I guess. Fix fix fix fixed version soon.

This came about because I deleted blue second and copied over everything from red second as far as detail goes, and I guess I missed that clip brush as well.

Other than that minor issue, the map is looking brilliant mate. There's a few places that roamers/scouts could take advantage of hiding in which seem a bit silly (the top of the wood beams in cave, above the left side exit into second from last) (sorry for not taking screenshots), but other than that stuff, it's good man. Real good.

cp_logjam_b14

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oud956vhkhpg6lb/cp_logjam_b14.bsp?dl=0

Fixed a very large clip brush being missing from blue 2nd

I appreciate the feedback. So, that was I think 5 versions in 15 hours. Yeehaw. The map should be set for a bit, looking for playtesting feedback now.

Doof here. I played Medic with you during two lobbies on logjam earlier today and told you that I'd submit some visual feedback. I had to rush these first ones, but I'll hopefully be able to take my time with the next few pictures. I don't have a tablet either, so enjoy the scribbles.

http://imgur.com/uMmgZHV

The idea here is to reduce the choppy transition between shutter cement and spire while also maybe giving roll-outs some more surf options depending on how the terrain is shaped. Just for you to consider. The map remains solid and the matches I played were a lot of fun.

Edit: Honestly, now that I'm looking at it again, you might not really need to adjust any height. I just thought that it would be nicer to have more ground to walk between shutter cement and the spire wood when crossing on that side of second point. You could get even more yard if you chose to shorten the ramp distance (and increase the ramp incline a bit) to mimic something like the Badlands wooden patio/staircase that exits out of the back of House into Yard. Since the ramp isn't really part of any roll-out, the change might go unnoticed in the beginning, but have a big impact on how players move about and position themselves on the shutter-side of second point.

That was rushed? That's fanastic man. Great suggestion, that will make things flow a lot more nicely.

You should be a free freelance map tester Doof, that's a great piece of feedback.

http://i.imgur.com/eHrBFcB.jpg

Something along the lines of this? The ramp slide for the roamer rollouts will work still, I've block bulleted the strip along the right.

Looking at it now, it almost feels like that's a lot of open space and it needs a rock or crates or something for scouts to dance on. Not sure, let me know what you think.

Different heights on the yard and shit should makr it nice enough for scouts already looks nice enough for me

Well, I drew something else up to help exploit that new ravine dip going across shutter-side yard. If we're looking out for scouts, giving them new paths across second might be a nice addition instead of necessarily focusing on obstacles. By widening the cut through the spire, the path could accommodate two levels (to base-line spire floor or lower to the yard proper). It'd be a matter of deleting the chunk of walkway in front of the current entrance and replacing it with open space and bridging the new gap in the walkway with some logs laid flat and maybe given a little ramp in front of each start of the "log bridge" if the log diameters are too tall to simply walk over.

Picture: http://imgur.com/HOCfBzJ

A little crate could slip into the gravel pile that's holding up the two current logs on the bottom left of your screenshot as a means to help scouts jump up to base floor spire from yard without having to either walk normally from choke or go up the gravel ramp from the cutaway. Given that a lot of roamers currently like to roll-out on shutter-side second to mid with consecutive rocket jumps, adding more obstacles might get in the way of that. Then again, it might just come down to something to which the players would have to adjust. It's always your call, especially since I feel bad with how drastic my suggestions are becoming.

If you want to minimize the changes, then maybe just adding a crate where I drew one in the picture (it's that ugly yellow block thing) and then, yes, maybe adding a storage crate or something near the fence/rock wall and just letting roamers deal with it for their roll-outs.

Edit: It is just a shutter-side isometric view, so I'll do more views if you are interested.

Is the patch of dirt still as surfable as the ramp was? If not someone will have to come up with a different solly rollout.

EDIT: Im dumb, didnt see that you said it was still surfable

cp_logjam_b15

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0t3mmrompe4550/cp_logjam_b15.bsp?dl=0

Changes for b15
Removed a pillar just outside of spawn at last to aid jumping
made the displacement ground around 2nd spire's right side make more sense and flow better
Changed forward spawns on mid to have stop sign hand on them so that new players are less confused
modified the upper left exit out of lobby to permit the fast demo pogo rollout
changed the skybox to have clouds
Modified the displacements and props by the spire to make jumping up the right side of the spire as an attacker easier
Added a box on the right side of spire for scouts to jump on
Made some changes on mid to differentiate colors better (concrete floors, houses changed colors
Detailed house a bit
Detailed a bit of mid (nowhere near done)

http://i.imgur.com/b0FZUII.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q9FhROs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MANL9h0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LvrLdpU.jpg

cp_logjam_b16

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1elqpg742gw2b7/cp_logjam_b16.bsp?dl=0

Changes for b16:
-Made it clear where you can ramp slide by reverting back to a concrete ramp
-Modified choke so that there is a way for attackers going from 2nd to mid have a way of gaining high ground and an easier way to peak/spam house.
-Made it so you can't climb on the fence at second
-Fixed a strange unclipped spot by the transition from cave to mid
-Fixed some clipping above house preventing a granary-esque roamer bomb
-Moved two small plank piles on mid so that medics can jump on to the larger plank piles on mid (hey admirable)
-Modified some clipping on the dirt piles at 2nd

Screens:

http://i.imgur.com/KqiM0i8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KbdHTa1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hk1TzPR.jpg

Nice to see this is still getting worked on, kudos.

I noticed you've added what I would call a smoking barn and a shutter, on the far right and left of this picture respectively. While I'm sure this makes sense from a gameplay perspective with sniper lines and spamming and all that, I'm kind of disappointed that these have now nullified the demoman rollout into house; both from main and from the smoking barn side. I always like to see maps which have at least one flank as a viable rollout for the demoman, besides choke.

I liked this rollout specifically because it allowed you to either go up the ramp from house to middle(maybe even taking the healthpack in shack) or go lower, take the pack in house next to lower exit and surprise the other demoman. Now you can really only go to middle as demoman, which is just making the demoman battle a bit stale. If you went through lower you could surprise the other demoman with your positioning and get closer to him, then go left under the bridge and join up with your medic there while the bridge protects you from projectiles(a bit like going through elbow to meet up with your medic on Gullywash middle). Just some food for thought, I guess.

You can still do that rollout from flank, shutter opens quite fast, allowing both demo and soldier to rollout.

It won't open fast enough for you to surf through the doorway right on top of or very close to the health pack, which adds literally seconds of walking time from shutter to the health pack to your rollout. You also can't do it from the smoking barn side any more because the barn is in the way, which is making it slower yet again.

The house rollout was already one to two seconds slower than the fast choke rollout when you could still do it from the smoking barn side, so it makes it practically unviable to do the house rollout for demoman now; it's just futile because the other demoman doing fast choke rollout can get a sticky onto your exit without having to guess where you're going to pop out, as he can put two or even three down to cover all of the exits by the time you get to lower exit or ramp exit.

These are good cents, Hyce please

Osiris, have you tried doing those rollouts? The shutter opens wicked fast. It doesn't stop the fast roamer rollout. You certainly can't do any jumps from upper left to that shutter anymore, which I will agree is not the best but you can also do them from main, so it's not too huge of a deal IMO.

Then again, I've never gotten to play an official match or a scrim on this map so I've rarely ever seen a demo arrive at the same time or before me to mid.

I'll make those changes, they do look like they would make mid make more sense.

I appreciate all the feedback guys.

Yes, you can get into house by way of sliding over the stone ramp from main; you will however be well over 3 seconds slower at firing your first sticky than a demoman doing the smoking barn pogo rollout to mid if both rollouts are performed optimally. However, if you were to remove the smoking barn it still wouldn't matter. On version b11f(it doesn't have the barn but it does have the shutter), I crash into the shutter 50% of the time, 25% of the time the door just doesn't seem to want to open because it's on Valve time or something and the other 25% you will surf through. Sadly, the latter is usually when you don't have optimal speed and you will only get half-way through the house, again adding vital walking time and making it hard to be competitive with the choke rollout.

Logjam doesn't have to have a choke available for the demo rollout, of course; it's your map and not all maps should have the same build. Process is one of my favourite maps and it only has choke as a viable rollout route too. All maps are different and that's a good thing, otherwise there is no point in having different maps and we would just play 24/7 cp_badlands and probably get bored!

I would suggest posting a video Osiris so that Hyce can tell precisely what you're talking about, because it's difficult to get across in text.

Why do you want the roof to be blocked from jumping xero?