SideshowSmithsonianOzfort rules are pretty good about this:
"A mercenary can be used without the permission of the other team if they are a member of a team currently active in the same division or below. If the proposed mercenary is not a member of any team participating in owl 12 the opposing team’s captain and your division administrator must agree to allow them to play."
Imo all leagues should use this rule, it works really well.
What happens to really good players who are playing in lower divisions for a season? The example off the top of my head is schocky now, playing in Mid. If I couldn't get a scout in and this rule was in place (or even a rule only allowing mercs by default from lower divisions), then I could get schocky as a merc which would be a huge upgrade in fact. Does the rule have a clause about that?
schocky would never play with sideshow's dribble squad
[quote=Sideshow][quote=Smithsonian]Ozfort rules are pretty good about this:
"A mercenary can be used without the permission of the other team if they are a member of a team currently active in the same division or below. If the proposed mercenary is not a member of any team participating in owl 12 the opposing team’s captain and your division administrator must agree to allow them to play."
Imo all leagues should use this rule, it works really well.[/quote]
What happens to really good players who are playing in lower divisions for a season? The example off the top of my head is schocky now, playing in Mid. If I couldn't get a scout in and this rule was in place (or even a rule only allowing mercs by default from lower divisions), then I could get schocky as a merc which would be a huge upgrade in fact. Does the rule have a clause about that?[/quote]
schocky would never play with sideshow's dribble squad
How about slightly change that rule so you can only use mercs from the same division as you IF that is the highest division the merc has played?
How about slightly change that rule so you can only use mercs from the same division as you IF that is the highest division the merc has played?
Thalashschocky would never play with sideshow's dribble squad
How dare you insult koston.
[quote=Thalash]schocky would never play with sideshow's dribble squad[/quote]
How dare you insult koston.
Default mercs are bad because it leads to dumb permamercing (playing for two teams at the same time) which is inherently anti-competitive. I can understand the usefulness for default mercs in open, but in high you are expected to know the rules and plan ahead, by having some back-ups on the roster. You know that the opponents can deny mercs without reason, so it's your fault for expecting everyone to allow every merc.
Default mercs are bad because it leads to dumb permamercing (playing for two teams at the same time) which is inherently anti-competitive. I can understand the usefulness for default mercs in open, but in high you are expected to know the rules and plan ahead, by having some back-ups on the roster. You know that the opponents can deny mercs without reason, so it's your fault for expecting everyone to allow every merc.
I'd just to mention that it is not a 'loophole' in the rules about the way the default server works. If you can come up with a better way to compromise when two teams are disagreeing about servers and not budging either way then I'm all ears. I personally cannot think of a better system. I understand the issues brought up though, I'm not pretending its perfect.
Of course the ETF2L servers will have problems for some players, that's pretty much inevitable with any server provider. However the current servers we have are a HUGE step up from the old Multiplay servers (shoutout to PurePings). I can't remember seeing the last time we actually had a complaint in IRC about our servers, which happened way too much with the old Multiplay ones.
It's pretty much been said already, but a default merc from the same tier or below simply wouldn't work in ETF2L. It's probably because I feel ETF2L is lot more relaxed about players playing in a lower division than they have before than other leagues. Perhaps that isn't the case, but it certainly feels like it to me. Like has been said already, there are plenty of quality players playing in Mid/Open which could be abused as default mercs.
It is bad sportsmanship not to agree to change server when some of your players have 200-400 ping, agreed. It isn't bad sportsmanship to disallow a 2nd merc when it is your teams fault you need that merc. Like Admirable said, get some backups to avoid a situation like this. Also CanFo's post is very informative.
Jackylegs, I am not sure what you mean about the server having old plugins, they should be updated frequently.
I'd just to mention that it is not a 'loophole' in the rules about the way the default server works. If you can come up with a better way to compromise when two teams are disagreeing about servers and not budging either way then I'm all ears. I personally cannot think of a better system. I understand the issues brought up though, I'm not pretending its perfect.
Of course the ETF2L servers will have problems for some players, that's pretty much inevitable with any server provider. However the current servers we have are a HUGE step up from the old Multiplay servers (shoutout to PurePings). I can't remember seeing the last time we actually had a complaint in IRC about our servers, which happened way too much with the old Multiplay ones.
It's pretty much been said already, but a default merc from the same tier or below simply wouldn't work in ETF2L. It's probably because I feel ETF2L is lot more relaxed about players playing in a lower division than they have before than other leagues. Perhaps that isn't the case, but it certainly feels like it to me. Like has been said already, there are plenty of quality players playing in Mid/Open which could be abused as default mercs.
It is bad sportsmanship not to agree to change server when some of your players have 200-400 ping, agreed. It isn't bad sportsmanship to disallow a 2nd merc when it is your teams fault you need that merc. Like Admirable said, get some backups to avoid a situation like this. Also CanFo's post is very informative.
Jackylegs, I am not sure what you mean about the server having old plugins, they should be updated frequently.
The one thing I don't get about Red Bearzzz is how they even think they could manage High when they were completely stomped in div3 last season. And then they pull dirty tricks like this, bunch of tools.
This is their old team btw. Same roster (except for manky I think)
The one thing I don't get about Red Bearzzz is how they even think they could manage High when they were completely stomped in div3 last season. And then they pull dirty tricks like this, bunch of tools.
This is their [url=http://etf2l.org/teams/18684/]old team[/url] btw. Same roster (except for manky I think)
yeah my bad, just looked at the last log i played on an etf2l server and it seems like it was up-to-date, my memory must have come out from a couple of seasons ago
i still think that there should be something done instead of saying "it's the rules" and ignoring it, not only eGz think this move was wrong and unacceptable, it would make sense if it was mid/high player denied, but an open player?
yeah my bad, just looked at the last log i played on an etf2l server and it seems like it was up-to-date, my memory must have come out from a couple of seasons ago
i still think that there should be something done instead of saying "it's the rules" and ignoring it, not only eGz think this move was wrong and unacceptable, it would make sense if it was mid/high player denied, but an open player?
JackyLegsyeah my bad, just looked at the last log i played on an etf2l server and it seems like it was up-to-date, my memory must have come out from a couple of seasons ago
i still think that there should be something done instead of saying "it's the rules" and ignoring it, not only eGz think this move was wrong and unacceptable, it would make sense if it was mid/high player denied, but an open player?
Wrong, maybe, but in what way is it unacceptable? This situation is preventable if the leader just takes responsibility for scheduling and planning the roster.
[quote=JackyLegs]yeah my bad, just looked at the last log i played on an etf2l server and it seems like it was up-to-date, my memory must have come out from a couple of seasons ago
i still think that there should be something done instead of saying "it's the rules" and ignoring it, not only eGz think this move was wrong and unacceptable, it would make sense if it was mid/high player denied, but an open player?[/quote]
Wrong, maybe, but in what way is it unacceptable? This situation is preventable if the leader just takes responsibility for scheduling and planning the roster.
just a thought, if a team is being unreasonable about mercs could an admin not be contacted before the match and have the final say? if you have run through a list of players that aren't of a higher level and the team appear to be being unreasonable then contact an admin say this is the situation and the admin determines if the merc is acceptable? i know its not a perfect solution but maybe its better than no solution?
just a thought, if a team is being unreasonable about mercs could an admin not be contacted before the match and have the final say? if you have run through a list of players that aren't of a higher level and the team appear to be being unreasonable then contact an admin say this is the situation and the admin determines if the merc is acceptable? i know its not a perfect solution but maybe its better than no solution?
They don't have to allows mercs, I always do, but that's like not tipping the waiter , it's a dick move but your not actually entitled to it
They don't have to allows mercs, I always do, but that's like not tipping the waiter , it's a dick move but your not actually entitled to it
Not allowing a div6 ringer when you're like div2-3ish is just win hunting.
Not allowing a div6 ringer when you're like div2-3ish is just win hunting.
yeah winning is such a terrible concept
fuck winning
yeah winning is such a terrible concept
fuck winning
I wouldn't say winning by being a fuckboy baby back bitch nerd is very satisfying
I wouldn't say winning by being a fuckboy baby back bitch nerd is very satisfying
[quote=Huck]I wouldn't say winning by being a fuckboy baby back bitch nerd is very satisfying[/quote]
[img]http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/525bfb4a69bedda83f84c289-480/bill-belichick.jpg[/img]
[img]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/Tom-brady.turkey.400.jpg[/img]
kirbyyeah winning is such a terrible concept
fuck winning
no one plays TF2 for any sort of monetary payoff
most people are only here for the fun of the game
rolling a 5v6 isn't very fun for either team
[quote=kirby]yeah winning is such a terrible concept
fuck winning[/quote]
no one plays TF2 for any sort of monetary payoff
most people are only here for the fun of the game
rolling a 5v6 isn't very fun for either team
russians suck at dota so whos the real winner here
russians suck at dota so whos the real winner here
whoa i shouldn't post when i am drinking
whoops. sorry
whoa i shouldn't post when i am drinking
whoops. sorry
One thing I can say about sportsmanship and rules is, no matter how much you try to make the game as fair as possible, you will always have certain teams and/or leaders who will feed off of any unfortunate situation and always deny mercs, always search for default wins or want to play the game of fair and level terms and always refuse to give the tiniest bit of leeway in order to have a good game of TF2. I have personally had many rivalries with teams, but whenever we played eachother we always wanted a fair game and gone to extreme lengths to co-operate with each-other.
I just can't stand teams and leaders who always go for the default win or deny mercs because they would rather be rewarded for being more organized and ready to start on time than actually being the better team like a certain HL team I know. No amount of rules will prevent people being bad sports, all we can do as leagues is try to find the fine line where those who do not take the piss are given fair game and those who do learn their lesson. It's not easy.
One thing I can say about sportsmanship and rules is, no matter how much you try to make the game as fair as possible, you will always have certain teams and/or leaders who will feed off of any unfortunate situation and always deny mercs, always search for default wins or want to play the game of fair and level terms and always refuse to give the tiniest bit of leeway in order to have a good game of TF2. I have personally had many rivalries with teams, but whenever we played eachother we always wanted a fair game and gone to extreme lengths to co-operate with each-other.
I just can't stand teams and leaders who always go for the default win or deny mercs because they would rather be rewarded for being more organized and ready to start on time than actually being the better team like a certain HL team I know. No amount of rules will prevent people being bad sports, all we can do as leagues is try to find the fine line where those who do not take the piss are given fair game and those who do learn their lesson. It's not easy.
Ond_kajaDefault mercs are bad because it leads to dumb permamercing (playing for two teams at the same time) which is inherently anti-competitive.
From the OWL12 Ruleset:
4CA. Mercenaries (Regarding Mercenary)
A mercenary may only play once at most for each team during the season. Please ensure that your use as a mercenary is confirmed in the match thread.
[quote=Ond_kaja]Default mercs are bad because it leads to dumb permamercing (playing for two teams at the same time) which is inherently anti-competitive.[/quote]
From the OWL12 Ruleset:
4CA. Mercenaries (Regarding Mercenary)
A mercenary may only play once at most for each team during the season. Please ensure that your use as a mercenary is confirmed in the match thread.