Hello all. I'm not a active participant on these forums, or in the community in general. I've been watching invite level tf2 for a long while. I've watched team like Fully Torqed, Mihalys (spelling), the old mix^, and others. I really did enjoy invite tf2 for a long while there. I went as a rare spectator to the s13, 14, LANS, and got to meet people like Harb, Shade, etc.
However, when I look at the state of TF2 Invite currently, I find something wrong. Yes, yes I know there's at least 10 other threads talking about tf2 comp dying, but I wanted to bring up a specific point. That point is, when I (and I assume others) look at Invite today, I see literally no competition. No excitement anymore. It almost seems, well, dead. I feel part of the problem is the juggernaut B4nny and Shade have thrown together.
Don't get me wrong at all here. Froyotech is good for tf2. Being that "bridge" in a sense, Froyotech has helped to bring attention to tf2 as an E-Sport. B4nny is easily the most popular tf2 streamer, and Froyotech.tv is doing well
Despite this fact though, there is no competition in Invite anymore. With the death of mix^, there is no challenge to Froyo at all. They showed that at i52, and GxL, and i'm sure they show us again at the next ESEA lan. The fact that the general consensus is "who's going to take 3 rounds off of Froyo" just shows how shallow Invite is.
Will b4nny team just dominate until 6's dies out? Yes, you could make the argument teams like 20b are young, and in time they'll compete. But how much time do we have left?
Imagine an Invite where you have 5 or 6 teams that are fighting for that LAN spot. You have Clock, b4nny, shade, Harb, the Mansky, and others rounding out evenly matched teams. Bringing excitement to a LAN where any one team could step up and win. Not just trying to take 3 rounds off of Froyo. Just take a second and imagine an invite div where anything could happen in a season. Not like now, where the only excitement is "who's going to lose to 4G. in the finals"
I had hopes that CEVO might bring something like this, but we all know how that turned out.
Anyway, this was a short rant from someone who has passionately watched Invite. I await all the 14 year old tf2 experts who i'm sure will let me know exactly how wrong I am about this, and watch as as thread gets -fragged. But take a second and think about that kind of Invite, where things are exciting again.
I would appreciate intelligent replies from people who know Invite better than I do. Maybe i'm wrong about this. But I just miss when Invite had that flair to it.
Cheers
EDIT: Short spelling errors
Hello all. I'm not a active participant on these forums, or in the community in general. I've been watching invite level tf2 for a long while. I've watched team like Fully Torqed, Mihalys (spelling), the old mix^, and others. I really did enjoy invite tf2 for a long while there. I went as a rare spectator to the s13, 14, LANS, and got to meet people like Harb, Shade, etc.
However, when I look at the state of TF2 Invite currently, I find something wrong. Yes, yes I know there's at least 10 other threads talking about tf2 comp dying, but I wanted to bring up a specific point. That point is, when I (and I assume others) look at Invite today, I see literally no competition. No excitement anymore. It almost seems, well, dead. I feel part of the problem is the juggernaut B4nny and Shade have thrown together.
Don't get me wrong at all here. Froyotech is good for tf2. Being that "bridge" in a sense, Froyotech has helped to bring attention to tf2 as an E-Sport. B4nny is easily the most popular tf2 streamer, and Froyotech.tv is doing well
Despite this fact though, there is no competition in Invite anymore. With the death of mix^, there is no challenge to Froyo at all. They showed that at i52, and GxL, and i'm sure they show us again at the next ESEA lan. The fact that the general consensus is "who's going to take 3 rounds off of Froyo" just shows how shallow Invite is.
Will b4nny team just dominate until 6's dies out? Yes, you could make the argument teams like 20b are young, and in time they'll compete. But how much time do we have left?
Imagine an Invite where you have 5 or 6 teams that are fighting for that LAN spot. You have Clock, b4nny, shade, Harb, the Mansky, and others rounding out evenly matched teams. Bringing excitement to a LAN where any one team could step up and win. Not just trying to take 3 rounds off of Froyo. Just take a second and imagine an invite div where anything could happen in a season. Not like now, where the only excitement is "who's going to lose to 4G. in the finals"
I had hopes that CEVO might bring something like this, but we all know how that turned out.
Anyway, this was a short rant from someone who has passionately watched Invite. I await all the 14 year old tf2 experts who i'm sure will let me know exactly how wrong I am about this, and watch as as thread gets -fragged. But take a second and think about that kind of Invite, where things are exciting again.
I would appreciate intelligent replies from people who know Invite better than I do. Maybe i'm wrong about this. But I just miss when Invite had that flair to it.
Cheers
EDIT: Short spelling errors
epsilon wasn't the death of tf2, froyotech won't be either lol
epsilon wasn't the death of tf2, froyotech won't be either lol
Epsilon was a pretty dominant force between i46 and i49. However that doesn't mean the games between them, broder and crack clan weren't some of the best tf2 I've ever seen played. Even though broder and CC kept losing it was really exciting to see them slowly catch up to epsi over the seasons.
The scene isn't dying because a super team rolls a season or two.
Sometimes you just gotta give the other teams some time to narrow down the gap and figure out how to counter parts of the super-team's winning strats, etc.
EDIT: Guess numlocked beat me to it by like 3 minutes. So much for refreshing threads before I post in them...
Epsilon was a pretty dominant force between i46 and i49. However that doesn't mean the games between them, broder and crack clan weren't some of the best tf2 I've ever seen played. Even though broder and CC kept losing it was really exciting to see them slowly catch up to epsi over the seasons.
The scene isn't dying because a super team rolls a season or two.
Sometimes you just gotta give the other teams some time to narrow down the gap and figure out how to counter parts of the super-team's winning strats, etc.
EDIT: Guess numlocked beat me to it by like 3 minutes. So much for refreshing threads before I post in them...
I don't think it's even debatable that super-teams are bad for everything other than battling other close-in-skill-level superteams. They lower the skill of other teams at the top level by gathering all the talent into one place, they lead to reduced competition, they lead to reduced motivation, reduced spectator enjoyment.
Happened in Australia for aeons, in EU for a while with Epsilon as well and it was entertaining momentarily since there were teams almost able to make it close, but soon became boring. This season is much better, even if the skill isn't as high.
Eventually these teams died in the other scenes as there was nothing to really play for - I guess the LAN scene of ESEA has promoted the longer life of 4G compared to the others, they can actually win a decent prizepot. I am actually surprised that (given the monetary motivation) nobody has really put a lot of effort into making a counter-superteam. Nobody willing to put in the time to get up to their level and then try to surpass it when they have other responsibilities I guess. Money's not that much.
I don't think it's even debatable that super-teams are bad for everything other than battling other close-in-skill-level superteams. They lower the skill of other teams at the top level by gathering all the talent into one place, they lead to reduced competition, they lead to reduced motivation, reduced spectator enjoyment.
Happened in Australia for aeons, in EU for a while with Epsilon as well and it was entertaining momentarily since there were teams almost able to make it close, but soon became boring. This season is much better, even if the skill isn't as high.
Eventually these teams died in the other scenes as there was nothing to really play for - I guess the LAN scene of ESEA has promoted the longer life of 4G compared to the others, they can actually win a decent prizepot. I am actually surprised that (given the monetary motivation) nobody has really put a lot of effort into making a counter-superteam. Nobody willing to put in the time to get up to their level and then try to surpass it when they have other responsibilities I guess. Money's not that much.
b4nny should host a TF2 tournament on his private island (purchased through his immense tourney winnings) to find the King of Games. It sounds crazy, I know, but we could give each team two "Star_ chips" that they bet with and when they run out they get booted off. Eventually there will be some kind of egyptian pharoh thing with lasers and we play TF2 on motorcycles or something, the kids will love it.
b4nny should host a TF2 tournament on his private island (purchased through his immense tourney winnings) to find the King of Games. It sounds crazy, I know, but we could give each team two "Star_ chips" that they bet with and when they run out they get booted off. Eventually there will be some kind of egyptian pharoh thing with lasers and we play TF2 on motorcycles or something, the kids will love it.
I think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open
I think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open
so what do u expect to happen to fix the problem?
so what do u expect to happen to fix the problem?
omnificI think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open
high im ≠ high invite
[quote=omnific]I think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open[/quote]
high im ≠ high invite
Froyo is just Liston waiting for their Cassius Clay.
STEP IT UP AMERICA
Froyo is just Liston waiting for their Cassius Clay.
STEP IT UP AMERICA
Honestly, I think having a team like Froyotech improves the competition of TF2, especially LAN. I've gone to several ESEA LANs, there were some really close and intense games last LAN. Every time a team plays Froyo, most of the TF2 spectators go and stand behind the opposing team, whether that be Elevate, 20b or the other team that makes it in. Everyone wants to see if that team will be able to take down the reigning champion of NA TF2.
Honestly, I think having a team like Froyotech improves the competition of TF2, especially LAN. I've gone to several ESEA LANs, there were some really close and intense games last LAN. Every time a team plays Froyo, most of the TF2 spectators go and stand behind the opposing team, whether that be Elevate, 20b or the other team that makes it in. Everyone wants to see if that team will be able to take down the reigning champion of NA TF2.
PapaSmurf323Nip won every lan event for a year straight. Heaton made a superteam and we watched them dominate csgo and people still watched.
After an incredible 87-0-0 undefeated LAN record in terms of maps won the Swedish powerhouse and number one CS: GO team in the world, Ninjas in Pyjamas, have lost not only their first map but the first match (BO3 format)
Superteams are not the issue.
Old players leave and no one steps it up. We have a bunch of tf2 pubbers trying to play competitive instead of competitive players playing tf2.
[quote=PapaSmurf323]Nip won every lan event for a year straight. Heaton made a superteam and we watched them dominate csgo and people still watched.
[quote]After an incredible 87-0-0 undefeated LAN record in terms of maps won the Swedish powerhouse and number one CS: GO team in the world, Ninjas in Pyjamas, have lost not only their first map but the first match (BO3 format) [/quote]
Superteams are not the issue.[/quote]
Old players leave and no one steps it up. We have a bunch of tf2 pubbers trying to play competitive instead of competitive players playing tf2.
womnificI think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open
high im ≠ high invite
Well cafemonster were high IM last season, and they're gonna move up to invite. I hope they do well in invite
[quote=w][quote=omnific]I think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open[/quote]
high im ≠ high invite[/quote]
Well cafemonster were high IM last season, and they're gonna move up to invite. I hope they do well in invite
omnificwomnificI think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open
high im ≠ high invite
Well cafemonster were high IM last season, and they're gonna move up to invite. I hope they do well in invite
its the "might pose some sort of threat to froyotech" line that got to me
in what way will they become a threat to froyotech. im not hating on cafe monster but yomies beat them regularly so i barely doubt they can contest with froyotech
[quote=omnific][quote=w][quote=omnific]I think that cafemonster might pose some sort of threat to froyotech, but I think froyotech is doing too well to make invite interesting to watch. I'd rather watch high open[/quote]
high im ≠ high invite[/quote]
Well cafemonster were high IM last season, and they're gonna move up to invite. I hope they do well in invite[/quote]
its the "might pose some sort of threat to froyotech" line that got to me
in what way will they become a threat to froyotech. im not hating on cafe monster but yomies beat them regularly so i barely doubt they can contest with froyotech
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Zrcy4TM.jpg[/img]
numlockedlol
Do you have to bring league into everything?
[quote=numlocked]lol[/quote]
Do you have to bring league into everything?
It's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've barely made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude
It's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've [b]barely[/b] made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude
I'm thoroughly convinced TF2 will only die when people stop posting "TF2 is dying" threads.
I'm thoroughly convinced TF2 will only die when people stop posting "TF2 is dying" threads.
CAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO
CAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO
PurpleShirtCAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO
setting over/under on cafe wins next season at 4
[quote=PurpleShirt]CAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO[/quote]
setting over/under on cafe wins next season at 4
Mr_OwlPurpleShirtCAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO
setting over/under on cafe wins next season at 4
maybe were dead next season ;)
[quote=Mr_Owl][quote=PurpleShirt]CAFE MONSTER IS THE ANSWER WERE COMIN FOR YOU FROYO[/quote]
setting over/under on cafe wins next season at 4[/quote]
maybe were dead next season ;)
taggIt's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've barely made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan
[quote=tagg]It's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've [b]barely[/b] made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude[/quote]
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan
omnifictaggIt's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've barely made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan
gonna guess that that holds up for like 1 or 2 lans before it gets old
its not like they're going to honolulu or some shit
[quote=omnific][quote=tagg]It's an issue but it's not Froyos fault
In order to make LAN you have to put in massive amounts of hours into scrimming, practicing, going over strats and etc.You finally get there, try your hardest and you entertain the crowd. Then you get 3rd place, go up to get your winnings and find out you've [b]barely[/b] made even after your travel expenses and food costs are added up.
The donation drives in the past got a bad rep fast but you can't expect players to invest all of this time so you can see a "good show" while they end up with the short end of the stick. I guarantee you, for every TF2 LAN that's been held, a "top competitive player" has ended losing money to go and entertain people. The time and effort these people put into the game isn't being respected
For my first ESEA LAN I placed 4th and made -$44 with my winnings. Not including food or shuttle/taxi expenses either. Its butts dude[/quote]
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan[/quote]
gonna guess that that holds up for like 1 or 2 lans before it gets old
its not like they're going to honolulu or some shit
Mr_Owlomnific
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan
gonna guess that that holds up for like 1 or 2 lans before it gets old
its not like they're going to honolulu or some shit
Correct
[quote=Mr_Owl][quote=omnific]
Well going to tf2 lan isn't really about getting money, it's more about going to a tf2 lan[/quote]
gonna guess that that holds up for like 1 or 2 lans before it gets old
its not like they're going to honolulu or some shit[/quote]
Correct
invite players retire, new players move to invite. i really doubt one team will continue to stomp invite for long. its only a matter of time before people get bored and move on to a new game, give competitive tf2 a break, or make an alt and play in open/highlander. as for tf2 dying... i think the people who are competing against top invite teams have a little more integrity and faith in the game than you do, that is to say, they are close to the top spot and want to get there so they are going to keep playing and beat their competition, even if it seems unlikely.
invite players retire, new players move to invite. i really doubt one team will continue to stomp invite for long. its only a matter of time before people get bored and move on to a new game, give competitive tf2 a break, or make an alt and play in open/highlander. as for tf2 dying... i think the people who are competing against top invite teams have a little more integrity and faith in the game than you do, that is to say, they are close to the top spot and want to get there so they are going to keep playing and beat their competition, even if it seems unlikely.
4G would be great if we were an esport, but our community is too small to deal with giants like them when so many top players leave for other games, or just quit competitive.
It's not their fault at all, they're just doing what they do best: winning at tf2. You can't fault them for trying when all the rest of us do the same thing, we just suck more.
4G would be great if we were an esport, but our community is too small to deal with giants like them when so many top players leave for other games, or just quit competitive.
It's not their fault at all, they're just doing what they do best: winning at tf2. You can't fault them for trying when all the rest of us do the same thing, we just suck more.
this happens in a lot competitive games
not a problem
this happens in a lot competitive games
not a problem
I feel like the subliminal reason of making these threads is wanting froyotechto die. Why not just say that. Dont beat around the bush
I think the bigger issue is LPKane and ESEA. That will kill TF2 . We need more threads on that.
I feel like the subliminal reason of making these threads is wanting froyotechto die. Why not just say that. Dont beat around the bush
I think the bigger issue is LPKane and ESEA. That will kill TF2 . We need more threads on that.