It's almost like you didn't read anything in the article or on tftv

Was this a typo? Should it be "pay to win?"

Sorry but I don't see a point in a matchmaking system where everyone will goof off and broken items are allowed. A new players will queue into matchmaking and think pocket engineer with short circuit is "the meta" which is going to suffer from the same problem we have now where people come into 6s and are turned off that their favorite class/weapon isn't used.

"But Valve can just fix the broken weapons!" WAY easier said than done. There are just so many weapons/items that are either broken or useless that it would take months of feedback and out of the box thinking to even fix half of them.

Matchmaking works so well in CSGO because there are no classes or broken strategies used by lower level players that are effective to worry about and balance around. RASH B NOO STOP BLYAT might work well in silver but it is shut down by 1 molotov/smoke in higher ranks. P90 is great if you can't aim but you get headshot and it's over.

Someone can place a mini sentry and no matter how good a scout I am I can't push up until it's dead. I can be the best roamer in the world but if a short circuit engineer is running at me I can't even rocket jump away. A broken strategy meta may very well turn into something that is the most effective but the least fun.

As far as matchmaking goes, everyone at the top will probably be around mid-high open level and if you aren't you can expect either insane queue times + stomping the other team or the great experience of offclassing against bad players.

Well maybe valve would rebalance retarded unlocks to fix those problems. This is a huge step forward for tf2 even if it might be shit for the first few weeks. I mean everyone thought CS:GO was trash for a long time after it came out but actually active developers do a lot for a game.

Edit: Didn't see the section of your post about weapon balancing. I don't think it would be as difficult as you imply though.

curious for those that think its just going to be crap. Do you play CSGO? When you solo Q, do you end up with ALL negevs and pump shotties and YOLO plays? Or for the most part do people try and win, and choose viable weapons? In my experience, the vast majority of games people at least try and win. They play the bombsite agreed on. These things sort themselves out in game, I assume its gonna be OK in TF2 also.

That doesn't happen in CSGO because competitive CSGO and matchmaking are the same game.

6v6 and Valve's TF2 might as well be two separate games.

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I don't see a problem with weapons being rebalanced but pub TF2 and competitive TF2 are vastly different, the reason (I assume) that the things we deem broken haven't been fixed is because Valve just didn't care at the time and focused on pubs and hat revenue.

If Valve managed to completely rebalance the game where all weapons were viable and could be countered by skill that doesn't mean the game would be fun to play. Given the nature of class/item combinations there are a ton of possible team compositions that could be completely broken or unfun to play against.

The reason items are banned is not only because they are too strong but some items just slow down the game or make it not fun to play. I don't think leagues will remove their whitelists even if Valve rebalances everything, because certain class compositions and mechanics (ex, multiple ubers, extreme demo spam, multiple wrangled sentries) lower the skill and enjoyment of everyone involved.

This still creates the jarring effect of someones favorite class/item being banned which is one of the major hurdles comp tf2 already faces.

And that's why Valve doesn't want to current 6s meta to survive.

Yeah, and the idea of scrap.tf running out of weapons and people selling them for a whole reclaimed because of competitive would be funny.

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No, match making works in CSGO, and literally everywhere else, because people like to win. They find winning fun. It works because the 'meta' isn't so fragile and pitiful that it can be completely broken by a few trolls running silly strats all the time. It works because while the 'pocket strats' and stupid stuff might work occasionally it is the exception, not the rule.

If 6v6 is such a weak meta that a handful of engies running mini sentries and short circuits (or whatever other cancer class/loadout you can imagine) is enough to beat a coordinated team of 6 intelligent players then I'm sorry, we've failed as a competitive format. As over powered and broken as some of the weapons in tf2 are right now (and if valve supports match making we WILL see balance patches) there is no weapon that is going to turn the tide of a game so completely as to create the world that you are imagining.

And if a strat that differs from our current meta does appear, and does prove successful, then people will start running it... because people like to win, they enjoy winning. And if that strat is so dominant that nothing works against it, then valve will be able to balance it. Because valve doesn't have to worry about every single weapon in all of tf2. They will have data, they will see what is used in match making, they will see stats like wins, and they will hear a much stronger voice from the tf2 community (given that in game match making will have a larger player base) and they will fix those weapons.

CSGO and DotA work because the players stopped screaming about the end of the world every time something changed and realized that things tend to balance themselves out naturally.

Weapon balancing to make most weapons equally viable is cool but my concern is if you start messing with class core attributes to make them more competitively viable in 6s for example.

TF2 classes are like a giant game of rock, paper, scissors, (ie: if you buff pyro to make it more competitively viable in 6s you're gonna fuck around with all the other classes that work in synergy/or against it).

We saw what a little sticky nerf made scouts like at high levels, even more deadly and not only the cleanup crew but the entire wrecking crew.

The difference here is that the short circuit and such are simply not fun items to play against.

I'm pretty sure most people here agree that if neither player shows up with a gimmicky tactic, then there should be some amount of game to the fight. (This is also a good way of defining what items are gimmicky, for the record.) The short circuit entirely shuts down the classes it is designed to beat with little effort. This isn't interesting for anyone involved. It's not fun. So it gets banned until it gets nerfed to the point where it is okay.

It was fine the way it was, more or less. Its firing rate was similar to airblast, which is designed to directly stop 1 at a time given the average firing rate of those projectiles. Using it aggressively took a tiny bit of effort, but it was decent defensively.

I want to suggest the idea that a "Spectate" tab will allow newer players with an interest in competitive to watch and LEARN, in much the same way as people have with CS:GO and DOTA's Watch features. I've heard this concept multiple times in the past 24 hours, from people who are heavy into those games.

Yes, I concede that the beginning of all this will likely bring people who will be stuck on playing Heavy in every situation, but ideally, many of these people would watch higher level play, or streams such as b4nny's or whoever's, and see "Hey, look, Heavies are barely ever used, I wonder why that is" or "Hey look at all the shit Soldiers can do" or whatever and begin exploring more of the game.

what the fucka re u talking about lol

people dont "scream" as much in DotA because game imbalance is just another mechanic at this point, but people still complain when heroes get nerfed/buffed
as for cs, people get just as upset over even the tiniest changes and adjustments of values (wider playermodels, slower scoped movement speed, greater moving accuracy, greater movespeed decrease via tagging) as tf2 community did about sticky/heavy nerf

why did oplaid link that ahk script for automatically making new steam accounts :<

I'm just going to try and stack 6 for queues whenever possible and play hard to show whatever pubbers I'm against what the best way to play is.

The true joy here will ofc be making children cry on the way to global

Because people who read dailydot are not the ones that are prone to cheating D:

The items that pose the most problems are also very easy to identify and their problems are so obvious fixes are'nt hard at all to find for game designers

we saw it when we did valve's game showmatches it was blatant

I think they need to do class restrictions re-balancing the game to fix broken unlocks is gonna be hard enough without having to fix the two heavies and two engineers forming a almost unbreakable hold on last.

Vaccinator medics are going to ruin everything lol

#hype!

You don't win in TF2 with damage.

elaborate

You aren't taking into account that not everyone that plays this will look at it with a pub mentality. You assume that players will go in with no knowledge of the meta or items that work. Adding a stream list and giving an incentive to win will result in better pugs then you would expect. If all CS players came into the game thinking "I will just click on people and have fun with negev and tasers" then all of CS mm would be trash like your made up version of tf2 mm. But that's not how it works for CS. People watch streams, youtube videos, and put time in to improve at the game, learn the meta and strive for that higher rank.

TF2 won't grow to it's fullest potential if one thing happens. People like you join mm for one game, have a noob on their team running engie at last at the start of the round and instantly give up hope saying "SEE I KNEW IT WOULD BE DUMB!!!! OUR ENGIE IS BAITING US" and give up hope. You need to have faith. Without faith from the upper levels of the comp community the ranks will be a joke, the weapons won't be balanced, and the game won't gain anything from this massive opportunity we are being given by Valve. Go in with an open mind and prepare for the fact that sometimes, just like in CS mm, someone on your team won't know as much as you. But help them. Tell them why what they're doing is hurtful to your team and hopefully they will retain some knowledge.

all plays in cs:go are yolo plays smh

Yeah. I'm worried they'll see that, say, running two medics works too well and nerf medic as a class, or something like that. Or a team of six snipers gets wrecked too often, so they buff sniper to make running six snipers viable.

If you think mini sentry short circuit engie is a cute and fun concept for a comp game, go fuck yourself pig vermin subhuman.

A no-class-limits matchmaking would be chaotic but I doubt it'd be something they'd revolve around to buff weapons/classes or nerf them. Valve's not looking to make classes viable, they just want to know how to balance weapons.