Koth Product (former pro viaduct)

#1

Fubar

koth_product

0 Frags – +

We're celebrating the new era of custom maps by renaming of koth_viaduct_pro to koth product.

you can find the map on the workshop here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=454272353

a few things have been updated:
-minor clipping
-broken announcer is fixed
-blockbullet between fence gaps
-lowered panels on each side of the control point to prevent shooting under

I'd like the workshop to be the way going forward but we're not 100% sure that it's a reliable distribution platform just yet. so here's a mirror just in case: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=12842
(feel free to subscribe to the map regardless)

We're celebrating the new era of custom maps by renaming of koth_viaduct_pro to koth product.

you can find the map on the workshop here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=454272353

a few things have been updated:
-minor clipping
-broken announcer is fixed
-blockbullet between fence gaps
-lowered panels on each side of the control point to prevent shooting under

I'd like the workshop to be the way going forward but we're not 100% sure that it's a reliable distribution platform just yet. so here's a mirror just in case: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/product.1063/download?version=12842
(feel free to subscribe to the map regardless)

#2

BumFreeze

6 Frags – +

How do I launch workshop maps? They don't appear for me using the regular "map" console command...

#3

kev

42 Frags – +

calling it product makes it seem like a different map lol

#4

THEBILLDOZER

-5 Frags – +

im not sure how valveis gonna feel about renaming their maps

#5

nabla

30 Frags – +

Viaduct:a long bridgelike structure, typically a series of arches, carrying a road or railroad across a valley or other low ground.

Product: a person or thing produced by or resulting from a process

:l

Viaduct:a long bridgelike structure, typically a series of arches, carrying a road or railroad across a valley or other low ground.

Product: a person or thing produced by or resulting from a process

:l

#6

smobo

12 Frags – +

I don't mind the name change. Just gotta say it pro-duct with a long O. Anyway, I love this map. You guys and the other map makers in the community are doing a huge service and deserve recognition. Metalworks, and Coalplant can get the process, gullywash, and snakewater treatment of being adopted officially by Valve.

I'd also love to see Viaduct Pro, Barnblitz Pro, and Badwater Pro replace the pub versions, or at least be offered on Valve pubs in some other fashion. Do you guys think Valve would consider updating their stock maps to these, or incorporating most of the changes? I bet pub players would enjoy a fresh take on these maps.

I don't mind the name change. Just gotta say it pro-duct with a long O. Anyway, I love this map. You guys and the other map makers in the community are doing a huge service and deserve recognition. Metalworks, and Coalplant can get the process, gullywash, and snakewater treatment of being adopted officially by Valve.

I'd also love to see Viaduct Pro, Barnblitz Pro, and Badwater Pro replace the pub versions, or at least be offered on Valve pubs in some other fashion. Do you guys think Valve would consider updating their stock maps to these, or incorporating most of the changes? I bet pub players would enjoy a fresh take on these maps.

#7

sola

1 Frags – +

BumFreezeHow do I launch workshop maps? They don't appear for me using the regular "map" console command...

[quote=BumFreeze]How do I launch workshop maps? They don't appear for me using the regular "map" console command...[/quote]

#8

MR_SLIN

11 Frags – +

can't you just call it viaduct...

#9

Fubar

koth_product

7 Frags – +

BumFreezeHow do I launch workshop maps? They don't appear for me using the regular "map" console command...

from what me and other mappers understand, launching maps from the console is a no go for now, but we "think" it will work if you connect to a server running the map.

if you want all the details:

Show Content

when you subscribe to a map, steam downloads it and stores it in a folder named "SteamApps\workshop\content\440\<mapid>". Now of course that folder has nothing to do with tf2 game files.
To get the map in tf2 you need to run this new command : "tf_workshop_map_sync <mapid>"
This will get the map in the tf\maps\workshop folder, but will rename it with its mapid in the filename (something like koth_product_rc8.ugc454272353.bsp).

now you can run the map with the map command "map workshop/koth_product_rc8.ugc454272353.bsp"
The problem is that the map command does not auto-complete so it's a real pain.

the current theory is that all this gets done automatically if you're just connecting to a server. If you want to run the map locally, well, that process clearly didn't get streamlined yet

THEBILLDOZERim not sure how valveis gonna feel about renaming their maps

well there's viaduct, eyeaduct and now product. I'd say it's quite in line with valve's strategy at having multiple versions of a map.

[quote=BumFreeze]How do I launch workshop maps? They don't appear for me using the regular "map" console command...[/quote]
from what me and other mappers understand, launching maps from the console is a no go for now, but we "think" it will work if you connect to a server running the map.

if you want all the details:
[spoiler]
when you subscribe to a map, steam downloads it and stores it in a folder named "SteamApps\workshop\content\440\<mapid>". Now of course that folder has nothing to do with tf2 game files.
To get the map in tf2 you need to run this new command : "tf_workshop_map_sync <mapid>"
This will get the map in the tf\maps\workshop folder, but will rename it with its mapid in the filename (something like koth_product_rc8.ugc454272353.bsp).

now you can run the map with the map command "map workshop/koth_product_rc8.ugc454272353.bsp"
The problem is that the map command does not auto-complete so it's a real pain.

the current theory is that all this gets done automatically if you're just connecting to a server. If you want to run the map locally, well, that process clearly didn't get streamlined yet[/spoiler]

[quote=THEBILLDOZER]im not sure how valveis gonna feel about renaming their maps[/quote]
well there's viaduct, eyeaduct and now product. I'd say it's quite in line with valve's strategy at having multiple versions of a map.

#10

yttrium

2 Frags – +

FubarIf you want to run the map locally, well, that process clearly didn't get streamlined yet

expect something like map_workshop and changelevel_workshop soon

[quote=Fubar]If you want to run the map locally, well, that process clearly didn't get streamlined yet[/quote]
expect something like map_workshop and changelevel_workshop soon

#11

deetr

2 Frags – +

CSGO autocompletes maps that are in subfolders, I'd assume that they could implement something similar for TF2. Then if they made the map_sync command sync all downloaded maps you could just use the current map syntax

#12

Kaneco

3 Frags – +

I don't get why you couldn't name it viaduct pro or pro viaduct, the likelihood of valve implementing it will be the same eitherway (I don't think the name would be the issue and if it was they rename a lot of items when launching officially) and it will only add to the confusion since viaduct pro has been played in leagues for years.

#13

wareya

-6 Frags – +

Kanecoit will only add to the confusion since viaduct pro has been played in leagues for years.

pro viaduct*

[quote=Kaneco]it will only add to the confusion since viaduct pro has been played in leagues for years.[/quote]
pro viaduct*

#14

KevinIsPwn

newbie.tf

17 Frags – +

.... why?

"Pro Viaduct" describes exactly what the map is. "Product" just separated the map even further from its original, and will be more confusing to new players than "Pro Viaduct".

Also, I read it as "prah duct" and was very confused for a bit.

.... why?

"Pro Viaduct" describes exactly what the map is. "Product" just separated the map even further from its original, and will be more confusing to new players than "Pro Viaduct".

Also, I read it as "prah duct" and was very confused for a bit.

#15

wareya

5 Frags – +

we were being pedantic about map names, right?

product is a product of long worthy efforts

we were being pedantic about map names, right?

product is a product of long worthy efforts

#16

Starkie

12 Frags – +

i dont really see the problem with the new name, i thought it was clever

#17

kKaltUu

20 Frags – +

I foresee a few people coming back to comp and asking: "what's product?"
"it's viaduct_pro but renamed for official use in the game"

"ah, ok"

And that's fine.

I foresee a few people coming back to comp and asking: "what's product?"
"it's viaduct_pro but renamed for official use in the game"

"ah, ok"

And that's fine.

#18

Fubar

koth_product

2 Frags – +

Part of the reason the name was changed was because we felt that viaduct_pro had developed it's own identity and design goals over time. Also, the pro tag is elitist and pompous. koth_product has an appeal for all levels of play and plays well in just about any format, professional or not. Sorry if there's any confusion for the name, we think it's for the better.

#19

KevinIsPwn

newbie.tf

4 Frags – +

It's only elitist if you want it to be. I never thought of "pro" as pompous, and I played various pro maps in pubs for forever before getting into competitive.

I am just failing to see any advantages of this worth switching the name over. The whole thing just seems like you did it in a hurry after the map workshop release without thinking it all the way through.

It's only elitist if you want it to be. I never thought of "pro" as pompous, and I played various pro maps in pubs for forever before getting into competitive.

I am just failing to see any advantages of this worth switching the name over. The whole thing just seems like you did it in a hurry after the map workshop release without thinking it all the way through.

#20

lawnn

5 Frags – +

KevinIsPwnI am just failing to see any advantages of this worth switching the name over. The whole thing just seems like you did it in a hurry after the map workshop release without thinking it all the way through.

it's something we discussed in a previous thread about a month ago before there was any hint of a maps workshop. If your opinion that 'the whole thing being rushed' extends further than naming conventions, understand that all previously posted about bugs that were fixable were fixed in this version, so it's not like the map just had a new name slapped on it and that was all.

[quote=KevinIsPwn]
I am just failing to see any advantages of this worth switching the name over. The whole thing just seems like you did it in a hurry after the map workshop release without thinking it all the way through.[/quote]

it's something we discussed in a previous thread about a month ago before there was any hint of a maps workshop. If your opinion that 'the whole thing being rushed' extends further than naming conventions, understand that all previously posted about bugs that were fixable were fixed in this version, so it's not like the map just had a new name slapped on it and that was all.

#21

azarun

-1 Frags – +

[code][/code]

#22

KevinIsPwn

newbie.tf

-1 Frags – +

bubblebobblerit's something we discussed in a previous thread about a month ago before there was any hint of a maps workshop

http://teamfortress.tv/post/425849/koth-viaduct-pro6-release if this is what you're talking about, this isn't even almost a "discussion".

bubblebobblerIf your opinion that 'the whole thing being rushed' extends further than naming conventions, understand that all previously posted about bugs that were fixable were fixed in this version, so it's not like the map just had a new name slapped on it and that was all.

my posts are only about the name, nothing more.

[quote=bubblebobbler]it's something we discussed in a previous thread about a month ago before there was any hint of a maps workshop[/quote]
http://teamfortress.tv/post/425849/koth-viaduct-pro6-release if this is what you're talking about, this isn't even almost a "discussion".

[quote=bubblebobbler]If your opinion that 'the whole thing being rushed' extends further than naming conventions, understand that all previously posted about bugs that were fixable were fixed in this version, so it's not like the map just had a new name slapped on it and that was all.[/quote]
my posts are only about the name, nothing more.

#23

BumFreeze

6 Frags – +

koth_product confused me at first. it took an entire second to look at the picture and notice it was viaduct pro. really makes no difference at all, just a good pun with the name

#24

Fubar

koth_product

7 Frags – +

I'll just make clear that I have expressed my stance on the map name and that I don't care nearly enough to carry this conversation any further. Fortunately for those who disagrees, it's not all bleak, you have options:
-Anyone is free to go back to koth_viaduct_pro7 if it makes them feel any better (even if we know it has gameplay issues).
-Also, The perks of being in a free country means that anyone who feels like they can do a better job than we did is free to do so.

so, again, sorry for any confusion.
now... whatdayasay we get to the valuable feedback? uh?

I'll just make clear that I have expressed my stance on the map name and that I don't care nearly enough to carry this conversation any further. Fortunately for those who disagrees, it's not all bleak, you have options:
-Anyone is free to go back to koth_viaduct_pro7 if it makes them feel any better (even if we know it has gameplay issues).
-Also, The perks of being in a free country means that anyone who feels like they can do a better job than we did is free to do so.

so, again, sorry for any confusion.
now... whatdayasay we get to the valuable feedback? uh?

#25

milo

23 Frags – +

call it viaduck

#26

CHERRY

3 Frags – +

I like the name

#27

Benroads

25 Frags – +

Besides the naming stuff (that I personally do not think is a big deal at all) I have noticed a few things, these are mostly things that I have overlooked but since you have fixed a majority of my major gripes with the map gameplay wise I guess it would make sense to focus a bit on some detail stuff.

http://puu.sh/id71n/0064b138ba.jpg

The occluders on the board props on the window and the boxes in left side seem to a be a bit too short and having props disappear is not exactly ideal on a map that is in release candidate

http://puu.sh/id7cF/bd0e95f1f5.jpg

When either a soldier jumps up near left side exit (on blue team) there's a strange flickering effect with rendering, I assume this has something to do with areaportals. In my opinion you should have it so that it works more consistantly so that people can jump up when they're in spawn to try and get a bit of information about where the enemy team is holding.

http://puu.sh/id7lr/cc13e07749.jpg

Similar occluder issue on patio side looking towards main entrance from spawn

http://puu.sh/id7oo/9071f1ca95.jpg

While the basketball hoop and intel were fun parts of pro6 if the hoop is not going to be solid it kind of serves no purpose and should probably be removed since it does not really fit in in that area.

http://puu.sh/id7s8/c6ba12a14c.jpg

You can get caught on the windowsill if you're walking against the wall here, could be fixed by lowering the displacement slightly under it but as i've suggested in the past making the windowsills nonsolid might be a better alternative since the only real loss would be the pretty questionable sniper sightline.

http://puu.sh/id7DE/368895e0b0.jpg

Having rockets/stickies explode and stick on air is kinda strange, I would suggest using func_nogrenades like many jump maps do so that they will just simply disappear.

http://puu.sh/id7Ms/bab77bbedf.jpg

The lighting around this lamp is really strange, the wood turns almost a metallic gray and I imagine that could be fixed in editing the color of light that the prop emits.

http://puu.sh/id7TG/ced4c751b9.jpg

Underside of this seems to be untextured or have some strange lighting bugs and stands out a bit more than it should because of it.

http://puu.sh/id8ap/31b156d87c.jpg

Would be nice to have it so all classes could climb up on these boxes by making a little lip for them to climb up on, could be a nice thing for medics to dodge on and make the area a bit more interesing overall. Also would like to have the fairly large gap to the right of it allow rockets and other things through since it's kinda odd that it just blocks everything for no real reason.

http://puu.sh/id8gm/5e72f0c14a.jpg

You can still get caught on this final metal plate when you're running around on the little ledge that holds them.

http://puu.sh/id8l7/f50fd151b5.jpg

Maybe make these houses on each side a bit more "themed" since you did that with the main house on each side already. There's also a few occluder things with the pipe on the side of the house and it disappears right around the exit from stairs in house

Per usual I will probably update this post tomorrow morning when I take a better look at the map, overall I think this map has improved quite a bit overall and I am really glad to see it being updated as often as it is.

Besides the naming stuff (that I personally do not think is a big deal at all) I have noticed a few things, these are mostly things that I have overlooked but since you have fixed a majority of my major gripes with the map gameplay wise I guess it would make sense to focus a bit on some detail stuff.

[img]http://puu.sh/id71n/0064b138ba.jpg[/img]

The occluders on the board props on the window and the boxes in left side seem to a be a bit too short and having props disappear is not exactly ideal on a map that is in release candidate

[img]http://puu.sh/id7cF/bd0e95f1f5.jpg[/img]

When either a soldier jumps up near left side exit (on blue team) there's a strange flickering effect with rendering, I assume this has something to do with areaportals. In my opinion you should have it so that it works more consistantly so that people can jump up when they're in spawn to try and get a bit of information about where the enemy team is holding.

[img]http://puu.sh/id7lr/cc13e07749.jpg[/img]

Similar occluder issue on patio side looking towards main entrance from spawn

[img]http://puu.sh/id7oo/9071f1ca95.jpg[/img]

While the basketball hoop and intel were fun parts of pro6 if the hoop is not going to be solid it kind of serves no purpose and should probably be removed since it does not really fit in in that area.

[img]http://puu.sh/id7s8/c6ba12a14c.jpg[/img]

You can get caught on the windowsill if you're walking against the wall here, could be fixed by lowering the displacement slightly under it but as i've suggested in the past making the windowsills nonsolid might be a better alternative since the only real loss would be the pretty questionable sniper sightline.

[img]http://puu.sh/id7DE/368895e0b0.jpg[/img]

Having rockets/stickies explode and stick on air is kinda strange, I would suggest using func_nogrenades like many jump maps do so that they will just simply disappear.

[img]http://puu.sh/id7Ms/bab77bbedf.jpg[/img]

The lighting around this lamp is really strange, the wood turns almost a metallic gray and I imagine that could be fixed in editing the color of light that the prop emits.

[img]http://puu.sh/id7TG/ced4c751b9.jpg[/img]

Underside of this seems to be untextured or have some strange lighting bugs and stands out a bit more than it should because of it.

[img]http://puu.sh/id8ap/31b156d87c.jpg[/img]

Would be nice to have it so all classes could climb up on these boxes by making a little lip for them to climb up on, could be a nice thing for medics to dodge on and make the area a bit more interesing overall. Also would like to have the fairly large gap to the right of it allow rockets and other things through since it's kinda odd that it just blocks everything for no real reason.

[img]http://puu.sh/id8gm/5e72f0c14a.jpg[/img]

You can still get caught on this final metal plate when you're running around on the little ledge that holds them.

[img]http://puu.sh/id8l7/f50fd151b5.jpg[/img]

Maybe make these houses on each side a bit more "themed" since you did that with the main house on each side already. There's also a few occluder things with the pipe on the side of the house and it disappears right around the exit from stairs in house

Per usual I will probably update this post tomorrow morning when I take a better look at the map, overall I think this map has improved quite a bit overall and I am really glad to see it being updated as often as it is.

#28

riotbz

-2 Frags – +

BenroadsW
A
L
L

I agree but keep the hoop for pregame

[quote=Benroads]
W
A
L
L[/quote]
I agree but keep the hoop for pregame

#29

BumFreeze

8 Frags – +

Benroadshttp://puu.sh/id8ap/31b156d87c.jpg

Would be nice to have it so all classes could climb up on these boxes by making a little lip for them to climb up on, could be a nice thing for medics to dodge on and make the area a bit more interesing overall. Also would like to have the fairly large gap to the right of it allow rockets and other things through since it's kinda odd that it just blocks everything for no real reason.

https://youtu.be/5USIDoZleAk?t=1h1m2s
too confusing for lan players

[quote=Benroads]
[img]http://puu.sh/id8ap/31b156d87c.jpg[/img]

Would be nice to have it so all classes could climb up on these boxes by making a little lip for them to climb up on, could be a nice thing for medics to dodge on and make the area a bit more interesing overall. Also would like to have the fairly large gap to the right of it allow rockets and other things through since it's kinda odd that it just blocks everything for no real reason.
[/quote]
https://youtu.be/5USIDoZleAk?t=1h1m2s
too confusing for lan players

#30

crackbabydumpster

13 Frags – +

The last thing the map needs is to put in another amazing sniper spot.