Gran Pro pls

i wish we could replace metalworks with viaduct :(

I dont think gran needs to be voted out for that to happen, the eventually replaced viaduct with the pro version without it being voted out

idk why everyone hates metalworks it's the best

the difference between gran -> gran pro and viaduct pro -> new viaduct pro is a lot smaller tho. i think it needs to be done by vote

-badlands/metalworks

Once again, it would be nice if we could know what the potential replacements might be. Voting a map out only to re-vote it back in again because the options aren't what people wanted yet again would be lame.

I hope that we can vote out a map and replace gran with gran pro becasue i personally think sunshine is the weakest (not bad at all though its very fun to pl;ay just a bit weaker than the other maps). but i dont want the same thing as last season to happen where they didn't have any good maps to replace it with, i think that they should have like a vote of like 9 maps to get a top 3 for possible replacements or something so we get some good maps also i think that maps that have been voted out previously should have a chance to get voted back in( bring back G-Pit)

i cant even imagine what maps would be in a vote with 9 potential replacement maps

i can barely imagine 3

maybe not nine lol, I'm just saying like instead of like last season where most of the replacement maps i had never even heard of.

Honestly, I think sunshine is a fine map, that also has a dedicated creator that is taking feedback from the community and implementing it pretty well. There are still some things I'm not a big fan of, but I don't think it's a 'weak' map.

the map pool is aight as is but we need that gran pro

i miss gravelpit

^

there is actually nothing that could replace any map that would be anything other than worse except gran --> gran pro

killing, can we change the way map votes work?

traditionally, i think they've been a 3-step poll thing - "what's the worst map in rotation?", "what's the best map of [insert a bunch of random shitty maps]", and "which one is better, the worst old map or the best new one".

could we possibly do a 4-step poll? "what's the worst map in rotation?", "nominate a map that should be in the rotation", "what's the best map of the nominated maps," and "which one is better, the worst old map or the best new one". because what's happened the last few times is that the second poll had a bunch of terrible, awful maps that nobody would ever vote for, instead of good maps like gran pro, coalplant, gpit, yukon, etc.

Please all,

I would really appreciate you guys considering logjam. I know in the past I've pushed things too hard but Logjam is at a pretty solid spot right now (I hope) and I would absolutely love to get serious feedback on it. People keep telling me it doesn't have to be played in season to get feedback but pugs and mixes just don't do it.

It's RC1, it's actually a decent looking RC1 for me this time and I have some ideas for some changes for an RC2.

http://www.teamfortress.tv/14370/cp-logjam-5cp

I can understand people not wanting to vote something out but if you have to vote something new in I would really appreciate you guys voting for Logjam.

nothing at all wrong with the maps being used right now. Switching Granary to Granary_pro is the only viable option.
There are no other maps that can effectively take the place of granary.

I'd like logjam in, because my gravelpit wishes/dreams will never be answered.

The map pool is fine as it is but changing granary to the pro version should definitely happen.

Also I have to say I think it would be really great to try to incorporate some good attack defend maps if any mapper would ever be willing to give it a shot.

- A/D provides comp tf2 something that it really doesn't have at all, that being prepared strats. There really is no opportunity right now for a lesser team in individual DM/skill to ever upset a better team through preparing with some new strategies or new ways to play a map to outplay an "on paper" better team.
- A/D provides without question some really exciting matches just from the nature of the gamemode, forcing people to push etc. Not to mention new strategies are cool to see in action.
- Valve will surely include A/D maybe even payload in MM, payload really wouldn't work but A/d could if good maps were made. With the steam workshop any good maps we like to play could become popular enough that valve would definitely put them into a contract mission or something like that officially adding them to the game.
- It's way easier of a game mode to understand to people that aren't extremely familiar with how 5cp/comp tf2 works as an outside viewer on twitch.

It doesn't necessarily have to be in the gpit style of A/D with multiple points it could be the dustbowl style of it as well, would just be fun to try and it has always been really fun to watch. It would add the ability for teams to use different strategies with other classes and potential for worse on paper teams to beat "better" teams with research and preparation.

new map pugs ran cp_edifice a while back and i think it went really well, its a gravelpit inspired cp map, and was made to fix the issues with gravel, unfortunately since then Phi, the map maker has been very busy and unable to update but, its on her top priority. but i personally think it has a good chance of being played in season.
If you guys could maybe try it out in invite pugs and then comment in the thread it would make her life much easier

Prepared/static strategies are something that are interesting to people? I dunno about you, but when I was first learning TF2, I DID find gravelpit/AD in general fun. However, as time passes on, you start to realise the myriad of different situations that arise in push and koth maps. Showcasing how well you can adapt in these different situations - that I believe is where the true beauty in competitive TF2 is.

Anyway a sneaky bit of a segue in response to ma3la's post - I'll go on-topic now. If you are going to keep some form of granary; definitely pro granary is an upgrade. I still feel that it's a pain in the ass to defend 2nd if you lost mid p horribly, but that's not gunna change unless the 2nd is opened like crazy, ruining the play of the map.

lopgjam

I think it'd be possible and fun to have a good A/D map in which the elements of 5cp that you mention come into play as well as an element of preparation and set strats, the ability to use other classes etc to outplay the other team as well.

logjam is actual garbage

i disagree

better than any other map that isnt in the current map pool minus gran pro, but not good enough to replace anything

I hope that it can be one of the better maps in rotation but at the moment I've gotten very little feedback on B20/RC1. I can't really do much to improve the map unless I get more serious testing. If you guys choose to vote Logjam in this time around I can assure you I will do everything in my power to make it an even better map for the following season... most of the other maps in the rotation don't change. Logjam can change to become a better map.

I know b4nny has played this at the SoCal LANs. Do you have VODs from the most recent RC?

I didn't realize the 2nd SoCal LAN had happened already. I will have to take a peak at it. I think they only wound up playing a few rounds on Logjam last time and I didn't get much out of it that I remember. I do certainly appreciate seeing it get run though!