im pretty sure actual 6s players dont want to play matchmaking
leave aids unlocks for the MM shitshow that some people dont want to be apart of

i think unban those but the tide turner

also why is the pocket pistol banned?? that weapon is absolutely terrible no reason to keep it banned.

Guillotine is a spam weapon for scout that does decent damage, low cooldown and some extra bleed on top. At long range it also minicrits for 108 total damage after bleeding which is like a direct rocket from close range. On viaduct or some more open areas where a scout throws it out (badlands mid to choke, gully second to choke, etc.) it seems a bit unfair as you can't really see it coming and it does enough damage to be a threat, easy force or drop.
A bit too spammable for my tastes, especially if both scouts run it and just spam a choke with it.

Almost nobody likes minis, I don't see a reason to add them as they wouldn't make the game more fun.

The rest is whatever. Brass beast damage reduction is annoying but focus fire will be easier. The other unlocks seem fine to me.

dont forget about the new 20% damage reduction while revved, meaning at 450 you effectively have almost 100 more hp, but without being able to die to spam like a sentry

the base jumper is op as fuck in hl from what ive seen and really obnoxious to play against. should be easier to counter with 2 scouts but you basically need to be spammed by both scouts and the demo to get denied

how is the base jumper op??? if it were actually not just a sidegrade more people would be able to use it effectively
you get slammed by any hitscan class and taking burst damage can cause you to lose all velocity
it'd be better in 6s due to a lack of heavy/engie/pyro
dont unban it, as much as I'd like to use it

Not at all? The only time it's remotely useful is using it + dh to take down a sentry

I think that instead of just looking at situations where x weapon would be overpowered in, I think we should rather look at the implementation of some weapons on certain maps. And the one big problem that I see is on viaduct. Park a heavy on cliff with a brass beast and shove a medic up his butt and you might as well kiss your single man sacks goodbye. Park a dispenser where he can also get ammo from it, and as much as I hate to say it, you've got something dumber than the loose cannon itself. I had the "privilege" to play against this stupidity last season in 6s, and needless to say, I wasn't the happiest gamer ever. And that's only the tip of the iceberg, folks.

hm ok was told it was nutty by my hl friends and that not enough people used it effectively (gaining velocity with a/d to counteract denial damage, using it to create high ground effectively, etc). i dont know hl so i dont know either way though.

well if they do that it seems like you would just get free dominance over everything that isnt their cliff and they would have the worst healspread on earth and completely worthless ubers. you can basically just get picks on their unprotected classes and then spam the heavy out or cap.

Most of those are either bugs or grandfathered in because no one unbanned them after release

Panic attack, Tide Turner, and I think the BB just never got unbanned because no one would ever actually use them
Cleaner's Carbine used to do full crits so it got banned and no one bothered to unban it
Gunslinger was gay in season 8 finals
Phlog and the Parachute had/ve bugs on release. The chute causes a crash on clients, and the phlog can still cap while doing the taunt
DX8 made the Bleed effect on the other two basically a flashbang, but since DX8 is dead maybe we should reconsider? They're both still stupid because you nail someone at mid and that's like a guaranteed heal beam on that dude

is saying that a weapon is 'annoying' a good argument to ban?

Why do we ban? Should we only consider how OP it is to a stock weapon?

What criteria should (also, what criteria is being used now) we use to ban?

As far as banning weapons goes you should consider all weapons "innocent" until proven "guilty"

If you really want to know what ridiculous weapons are truly op just look at the highlander whitelist. They are generally the experts on dealing with stupid bullshit.

no. weapons are guilty until proven innocent. this is why whenever there are updates mid-season they get banned, we dont know how overpowered/annoying/gamebreaking that item will be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9gipfkMbHc

But if you've got people constantly rotating in and out to watch what isn't cliff, isn't it essentially worthless? Or would your primary focus shift to knocking out the people that are on that non-cliff side? I'm asking for the knowledge more than anything here

Did you forget: "On Hit: Victim loses 10% Medigun charge"

not to mention its incredibly easy to spam down a choke or a corridor

#46 The drain amount falls off starting at 512HU down to 0% at 1536Hu. 512HU is really not that long so the charge drain problem really isn't as bad as it may look on paper. Note, I also put that under the 50/50 category and said it needed some testing to make sure it isn't game breaking.

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification.

Last time people suggested unbanning the phlog, the reason given was that it's dumb that you can spam scorch shot, go through water, and taunt on point when pushing gully last.

gaben take the wheel

i would use guillotine full time, way better than having a pistol.

def not way better than the winger doe

guillotine is def better than winger, giving a scout the ability to do long range burst dmg is pretty big. when i run it in pugs I get a lot of kills I wouldn't be able to normally get. hell, i ran it in 2v2 as a joke and it is really really good. if you land it, you auto win any scout vs scout

there is enough spam in this game
engineer should not be able to spam, especially something that removes any amount of ubercharge because you can shorten ubers and also break a teams push by hitting the medic once while he's walking in if he doesn't pop early
both are ridiculously stupidly contradicting to the currentmeta, as for the range you might think will cause the uber thing to be a non-factor but I guarantee that there will be situations where the uber effect is still important
panic attack, phlog, and cleaner's carbine are all ok for sure
tide turner I'm not sure about, the fact that it recharges your charge is actually ridiculous
I would need to check numbers on brass beast to be sure
but gunslinger was banned because it was literally unfun for everyone in the server except the engineer, it adds little depth to the game beyond "shoot the small sentry," I can see it having some uses but I don't think they're particularly cool uses or really valuable to the games meta and also kind of disrupts it, just like pomson
flying guillotine would be a straight upgrade to pistol, it does a ridiculous amount of damage and can be shot into chokes or corridors when a team is pushing or at hold positions so it's fairly brainless and also just annoying
wrap assassin is also fairly brainless and just annoying, neither of these weapons add anything to the game and beyond long range bleed damage which is just silly imo
cozy camper is a straight upgrade over SMG, which is why danger shield was banned(the ban was before the bullet/explosive damage change though), the reduced hit punch is actually incredible useful and can mean the difference between a sniper getting a kill or not especially since scout chipping is the only thing that really slows sniper until someone get on him close range or until you can coordinate spam well enough to force him to back off

lol the guillotine is miles better than the winger
if you hit an unbuffed scout you basically force him to leave the fight, play like a bitch, or get healed and a slightly damaged soldier is no different

Well if they are otherwise acceptable in terms of game balance - they're banned in ETF2L because ETF2L has adopted a policy for a year or so where they gradually integrate all the unlocks we never bothered to add before, and these are the ones waiting to be added. They didn't want to add them all at once because it's too much and makes people less likely to accept them, wouldn't be surprised to see these kinds of unlocks added next season.

im talking about the utility of being able to achieve more height on maps where it provides an advantage, not in a 2v2 mge server

also youll miss just as many kills as you may gain extra. scout runs away with 10 hp and you miss your lil cleaver shit, he gets out, whereas you get that kill with the pistol every time.

[*] Panic Attack - no reason to ban it
[*] Flying Guillotine - actually way more useful than the pistol imo, you can just spam it on chokes / flank and it does around 80 dmg total which isn't bad at all.
[*] Wrap Assassin - no reason to ban it
[*] Phlogistinator - it's not a useful weapon at all, I can't see one situation where it "shines" vs decent players, it will just be used by aids mixes.
[*] Tide Turner - people already use the charge and targe in pickups and mixes, why give them more reasons to not use stickies?
[*] Brass Beast - when spun up and buffed it's pretty much as if the heavy has 540 because of the spin up protectoin
[*] Gunslinger - too many reasosn why, if he is near a medium ammo pack he can put 3 mini's in a row.
[*] Cleaner's Carbine - would be cool to see people get a kill with this weapon and get a drop on the medic with crit no scope shots.

you're an idiot
if you haven't played in a serious environment with a weapon at all, or even played with the weapon, don't suggest to unban it because you think you know how it will work
you have literally no idea how this unlock will work

good discussion botmode, 10/10 would have again