I personally don't think Reckoner was ready (or more ready than Sunshine, rather) for league play but if the majority actually wanted Sunshine out then I'm glad the majority got what they want.

I just hope for their sake the swap was mostly a "I think Reckoner is better than Sunshine" vote and not a "I don't like Sunshine, I'm going to vote for literally anything else, even if I've never played it before" vote.

I agree with Jarrett. It seems like reckoner still had a lengthy process ahead of it before clearing for league play. I just hope it's not too rushed.

They shouldn't have replaced sunshine imo. People's sentimentality may stop it, but I want them to finally get rid of the dead wood maps nobody really enjoys anymore.

I don't personally think Reckoner is more ready than Sunshine, but it is a fresh change to the map pool which has been the same for over a year and it allows us to properly test a new, promising map. If it's bad we'll go back to sunshine, or switch some other map in. Doesn't have to be permanent at all - it doesn't even have to be the map pool that we abide by for other tournaments necessarily (though it probably should be for practice reasons).

Terrible change, Sunshine is a good map

replacing sunshine over replacing granary? questionable..

ew reckoner

Please give feedback to Reckoner in its thread instead of doing whatever sort of shittalking people tend to like to do in casts, streams, etc. I've seen so much of that, it's nearly prevented me from watching streams of my own maps because I've heard casters just front-and-center say the map is shit. What do you think that makes people watching the stream think? What type of mob mentality do you think that creates? None of that can improve the map unless you actually leave feedback in its thread. I don't want the map being voted in just to get trash talked and voted out without any feedback.

http://www.teamfortress.tv/29927/cp-reckoner-5cp

Also, please leave feedback for Sunshine, too. People voted it out and I still don't have any new feedback (especially from euros) in its thread. I vaguely know what's wrong but nothing has been written down for me. I would really like to improve it to the point where it can be voted back in again.

http://www.teamfortress.tv/11931/cp-sunshine-5cp

I'm not done Sunshine's development, it's just slowed down a little while I wait for Valve to contact me on whether or not it's being considered for actually being included in official MM or not, and whether or not people are actually going to give me tangible feedback for it.

Don't be discouraged/threatened by other people's remarks. Most of us can't really articulate EXACTLY what makes a good map. Others are just rude. But as long as you're working on it, we appreciate it.

Sunshine >>>>> reckonaids

people like you are the reason mappers don't want to design maps for this game

yep reckoner is probably the worst map I've seen in comp in a while, gravelpit > reckoner

Reckoner is p cool added bonus is I don't spike to like 80fps on mids. I've had to swap to 1280x960 to play sunshine, and now I'm just using it all the time >_<

tbh I don't really mind sunshine as a map it actually plays p well. I think it can be a little too hard to push with uber advantage against a heavy + engy on last and there's probably a little bit too much room to kite ubers around/behind the point

That is feedback that I am aware of but thankful someone actually put it into tangible words. I am actively working on making the map play better but with its recent departure from ETF2L and radio silence from Valve the next update will take some time.

I am taking it into my hands to make last pushes, and last holds, better for the attacking team. Most of what I could gather consists of the map having a last that is somewhat stalematey and hard to push. I am going to address that with the next update, planned to be out before next season's end so it can be considered for voting back in.

very nice

Granary was going to be replaced last season by coalplant. However that was very unpopular plus sunshine has been the most unpopular map in polls for multiple seasons now.

I'm pretty sure Granary got more playtime than sunshine last season too

(pasta'd from the etf2l comments): not a fan of having beta maps in the pool tbh (logjam was included far too early, had issues when it was included and was changed several times after s20). plus, while most people have played it in mixes at least, not many top teams played it in the preseason cup and i doubt they scrim it

As I've said before, a map being in beta means nothing beyond a name.

Gullywash, Snakewater, Granary_Pro, Process, and Via/Product were all included in the leagues' map pools before they got to their "final version". How do you expect beta maps to get proper testing and feedback if not including them in the season?

New maps are a great thing. But the fact that it had to replace another map is kinda sad

well yes, but it does signify the map's age and how well stress-tested it has been by top teams fully try-harding it. i agree that including it in the season would be the best way to test it and i guess it wouldn't be a complete disaster in the unlikely event that it had some glaring flaws however putting it early into the map pool could kill the community's willingness to play it (as happened with logjam). we can hope for another process/snake but it's honestly not likely

isnt that why its in pugchamp

Not much testing and feedback when most people ban the map or loudly complain for it to be removed.

Do you really think pugchamp is the best place to test this map? Why isn't the best place ETF2L, where the games are taken very seriously, teams are forced to scrim the map repeatedly, and strats are formed? It's not like we're playing for thousands of pounds here, this is a community league where the primary objective is to enjoy the game in a competitive environment.

Reckoner is so good for how new it is i am glad it is getting into etf2l and i hope it gets into esea soon. But i definitely would not have replaced sunshine, my pick would have been metalworks probably.

edit - my bad apperantly they don't even play metalworks

eu doesnt play metalworks already

well they better start

reckoner is completely gorgeous and has a lot of fun ramps entering mid. I wish I had a more complex critique to give but based on those two criteria it's a decent map to spectate.

IIRC this is exactly how we got cp_ashville