I despise badlands, but I can't think of a map that I would rather play over badlands.

Most of the people I've talked to who are old enough to have played Gravel Pit, dislike it in my experience.

Also I wish there were more koth maps than just viaduct, what was the reason that coalplant was removed? I assume there's a pretty good reason considering no one seems to want it in.

pushing from badlands mid into second you can always push flank and kill whoever's there or send a guy behind i don't think it's really that much harder than any other point since 1 man sacks or flank pushes are pretty much just what people do these days with stalemates now that going for solo uber trades is hard since meds have scout speed, etc.
edit: coalplant was shit lol just completely unfun to play

There is every chance that by the next international event the map pools will have changed in europe or aus so unless there is going to be an international lan before the next iSeries then there is plenty of time for the game to die, leagues to change map pool

What if we got rid of viaduct since there's only 1 KOTH map in the rotation? It's far and away the best KOTH map and the idea is blasphemy and preposterous, but I think this would give us a chance to play one of the newer 5CP maps. IMO having a new 5CP map to play would be a welcomed break from the norm, teams could make new strats / holds etc. , plus the mapper could get loads more valuable feedback for updating and fixing the map if there are issues.

I think it gets brought up every offseason that there should be other KOTH maps in the rotation, but ever since coalplant / ashville got voted out they've never been added back in - plus what maps would you take out to put a KOTH map in for?

edit: looking at ETF2L they only have 7 maps in their pool, whatever happened to logjam?

Considering ESEA's stance on updating the map to the most recent version once the season has started (they don't update maps), I would preferably stay away from reckoner until the map is 99% completed.

In my opinion, the only reason why we kick out a map is so we can bring back an old one (gravelpit, coalplant, yukon, etc.), but considering that has always been the case for the past 10seasons, I don't see it happening this season either.

Honestly, if we want to change anything for s23 it should be the item whitelist.

Gravelpit is literally awful and if any maps were going to be removed it should be metalworks or granary. Gullywash just frustrates me because the mids seems way too decisive and trying to break stalemates through either big door or one chokepoint is awful. As for badlands, I think most of the ire comes from the fact that at lower levels of play it's really easy to exploit the flank compared to other maps.

I would love to see metalworks or granary replaced with reckoner or logjam. Metalworks is the most linear and stalematey map in the map pool and granary seems to be played just because it's always been played despite it being poorly balanced. I mean at the very least reckoner and logjam might be marginally less awful and would give the map creators additional feedback IDK. I am curious if the official version of sunshine will make it slightly easier to break stalemates and push last so *if it's played* I'd like to see it stay in the map pool.

Id be fine with granary being removed tbh

The only thing that was good about gravel-pit, was that it was entertaining to watch for the viewers of invite matches, and it'd draw in more viewers who play the classes that are generally only used for last points in 6s. From a spectators point of view, I'd enjoy seeing gpit back in the rotation, since it was fun to view, and the casters enjoyed it IIRC (feel free to correct me on that last part). As a player though, I don't know if I'd ever want to play it, but I'd be willing to give it a try.

I personally think it'd be mostly harmless to see gpit back in the rotation. Sure people will bitch about it and the extreme will possibly not play (though I doubt it), but it won't ruin anything. Part of trying to become an e-sport is to also put on a show for the viewers, so if gpit is fun to watch, then it's something we might have to bite the bullet on. I know invite players would hate this, but it would be nice to see them play the map. Like if ESEA allowed the invite division to have a different map in rotation than the lower divs, but that could be seen as an unfair advantage against the up-coming IM teams. I honestly don't care about the map pool, as long as reckoner doesn't get in, that map is aids.

bring back warmfront

There should really be a new A/D map developed for 6v6 instead of Gpit being brought back. The format has real potential.

While pushing badlands flank is perfectly viable, I feel like the flank has a problem because it has an open spawn. No other map allows the defenders to get resupply outside of their last. This by no means is enough of a knock against badlands to kick it out of rotation. Like the 1 second last cap, though, the spawn should probably be locked off and fixed. You'd probably need a more convenient health pack for the flank to fight over like other maps which I'm definitely not sure if there's a good place to put one.

gpit should not be brought back. on top of how aids it is to play, it's pretty stupid to have 3 different game modes in rotation with only 5 cp being for more than a single week. add another quality koth map, or add another 5 cp map.

i'd keep the rotation as is for now though until reckoner can be worked on a bit more.

Please remove metalworks and put reckoner in, it'd go a long way to making the scenes closer in their rules.

I enjoy Reckoner. I think Metalworks is alright, there's nothing too special about it. Granary is at least a very different challenge to other maps so I kinda like it in that way

gravelpit fucking blows
don't talk about it unless you've actually had to deal with scrimming it for a week straight every season