Yeah the death pit on the side mostly just feels gimmicky.
As for the tunnel under the point, it's basically an insanely long flank route that is entirely countered by one person spotting the left side of point, so attackers would never go down there because it just makes your push harder and defenders would never go down there (more than peeking in) because it takes them out of the fight. I would scrap it entirely but if you're set on keeping it you need to add some sort of positional advantage to using the space.
Also just noticing now but it would be nice if the roof over spawn house wasn't clipped so weird and you could stand on it easier.
Yeah the death pit on the side mostly just feels gimmicky.
As for the tunnel under the point, it's basically an insanely long flank route that is entirely countered by one person spotting the left side of point, so attackers would never go down there because it just makes your push harder and defenders would never go down there (more than peeking in) because it takes them out of the fight. I would scrap it entirely but if you're set on keeping it you need to add some sort of positional advantage to using the space.
Also just noticing now but it would be nice if the roof over spawn house wasn't clipped so weird and you could stand on it easier.
saamYeah the death pit on the side mostly just feels gimmicky.
As for the tunnel under the point, it's basically an insanely long flank route that is entirely countered by one person spotting the left side of point, so attackers would never go down there because it just makes your push harder and defenders would never go down there (more than peeking in) because it takes them out of the fight. I would scrap it entirely but if you're set on keeping it you need to add some sort of positional advantage to using the space.
Also just noticing now but it would be nice if the roof over spawn house wasn't clipped so weird and you could stand on it easier.
Thanks for elaborating!
I am thinking of moving the spawn up to exit into this room as it would make the roll-out much faster and the map quite a bit smaller:
http://i.imgur.com/mxcfKuM.jpg
My only concern would be that demo roll-outs would then be super insanely fast.
[quote=saam]Yeah the death pit on the side mostly just feels gimmicky.
As for the tunnel under the point, it's basically an insanely long flank route that is entirely countered by one person spotting the left side of point, so attackers would never go down there because it just makes your push harder and defenders would never go down there (more than peeking in) because it takes them out of the fight. I would scrap it entirely but if you're set on keeping it you need to add some sort of positional advantage to using the space.
Also just noticing now but it would be nice if the roof over spawn house wasn't clipped so weird and you could stand on it easier.[/quote]
Thanks for elaborating!
I am thinking of moving the spawn up to exit into this room as it would make the roll-out much faster and the map quite a bit smaller:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/mxcfKuM.jpg[/img]
My only concern would be that demo roll-outs would then be super insanely fast.
the concern with the death pit is that it creates gameplay where people potentially die against a lower skilled opponent without getting outplayed. the best way to avoid dying to the death pit is to just avoid that part of the map entirely, and then you never have to be concerned with catching a rocket wrong and just falling to your death. deathpits are a ton of fun on casual maps but dont have a place on competitive maps.
the concern with the death pit is that it creates gameplay where people potentially die against a lower skilled opponent without getting outplayed. the best way to avoid dying to the death pit is to just avoid that part of the map entirely, and then you never have to be concerned with catching a rocket wrong and just falling to your death. deathpits are a ton of fun on casual maps but dont have a place on competitive maps.
Going back to work on this. A few fast compile quick screenshots of issues addressed. (Falling snow will be removed, don't worry).
http://imgur.com/a/i5vJ3
1. Pushed the spawns forward.
2. Added some stairs to make escaping from the area behind the point easier.
3. Increased the lack of ammo/health.
I'm still trying to figure out an advantage for the tunnel under the point other than health.
Going back to work on this. A few fast compile quick screenshots of issues addressed. (Falling snow will be removed, don't worry).
http://imgur.com/a/i5vJ3
1. Pushed the spawns forward.
2. Added some stairs to make escaping from the area behind the point easier.
3. Increased the lack of ammo/health.
I'm still trying to figure out an advantage for the tunnel under the point other than health.
New release: Oct 9th, 2016
-Removed falling snow
-Removed clipping from roof over the point
-Map title and file name changed to koth_avalanche from koth_avalanchev3
-Moved the team spawns forward
-Increased health and ammo pickups and moved some health pickup locations
-Added a second route to sniper balcony/cafe
-Added stairs to help navigation and flow to roof near the point
-Added stairs to help navigation and flow in the underground area near the point
Some screenshots that show some updated areas
http://imgur.com/a/IHAsd
You can download the bsp directly from here: https://tf2maps.net/threads/koth_avalanche.29779/
You can also download it from the workshop here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
Please test when you can and let me know what you think.
New release: Oct 9th, 2016
-Removed falling snow
-Removed clipping from roof over the point
-Map title and file name changed to koth_avalanche from koth_avalanchev3
-Moved the team spawns forward
-Increased health and ammo pickups and moved some health pickup locations
-Added a second route to sniper balcony/cafe
-Added stairs to help navigation and flow to roof near the point
-Added stairs to help navigation and flow in the underground area near the point
Some screenshots that show some updated areas
http://imgur.com/a/IHAsd
You can download the bsp directly from here: https://tf2maps.net/threads/koth_avalanche.29779/
You can also download it from the workshop here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
Please test when you can and let me know what you think.
New release: Oct 18th, 2016
-A few gameplay changes have been made after testing such as more cover available in the tunnel under the point and change/movement of health/ammo once more
-3d skybox expansion
-Soundscapes!
A few updated images:
http://imgur.com/a/WABbM
Direct download: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/
Workshop here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
New release: Oct 18th, 2016
-A few gameplay changes have been made after testing such as more cover available in the tunnel under the point and change/movement of health/ammo once more
-3d skybox expansion
-Soundscapes!
A few updated images:
http://imgur.com/a/WABbM
Direct download: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/
Workshop here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
Nov 20th changes:
-Added a medium ammo pickup to the upper balcony area near the cafe table.
-Changed a small ammo pickup into medium in the hazard basement area.
-Fixed issue with getting stuck on the ramp going up to the cafe area from the fountain area.
-Fixed a lighting issue on a displacement near the tunnel entrance.
-Changed a dirt track overlay near the point to be less stretched looking.
-Updated tank models to the latest available from the Frontline! asset pack.
Direct download: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/updates
Nov 20th changes:
-Added a medium ammo pickup to the upper balcony area near the cafe table.
-Changed a small ammo pickup into medium in the hazard basement area.
-Fixed issue with getting stuck on the ramp going up to the cafe area from the fountain area.
-Fixed a lighting issue on a displacement near the tunnel entrance.
-Changed a dirt track overlay near the point to be less stretched looking.
-Updated tank models to the latest available from the Frontline! asset pack.
Direct download: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/updates
If we remove the snow will it become koth_provalanche?
If we remove the snow will it become koth_provalanche?
Updated version now available! https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/
Updated screenshots here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
-Removed the roof over the mid point and added beams to make it more open and less camped.
-Removed the clipping from the tall houses on either side of the mid point that prevented access. Also removed the slope on one side of the roof for both.
-Changed the direction of the light coming through the window on mid point.
Now an official 4s map in the TFCL: https://tfcleague.com/
Updated version now available! https://tf2maps.net/downloads/koth_avalanche.2505/
Updated screenshots here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=747296123
-Removed the roof over the mid point and added beams to make it more open and less camped.
-Removed the clipping from the tall houses on either side of the mid point that prevented access. Also removed the slope on one side of the roof for both.
-Changed the direction of the light coming through the window on mid point.
Now an official 4s map in the TFCL: https://tfcleague.com/
the stairs eat the splash from rockets
this is usually fixed by making the collision mesh just a ramp like it was done in badlands last stairs
the whole underground area is huge and a little pointless but interesting
the stairs eat the splash from rockets
this is usually fixed by making the collision mesh just a ramp like it was done in badlands last stairs
the whole underground area is huge and a little pointless but interesting
sagethe stairs eat the splash from rockets
this is usually fixed by making the collision mesh just a ramp like it was done in badlands last stairs
the whole underground area is huge and a little pointless but interesting
Thanks for pointing that out. The stairs are an easy fix but the underground area...
I have considered removing the underground area and the tunnel under the point entirely but I would like some input/suggestions (even if the input is reassuring that removing the underground area would be for the best) for it. Would the map become too simple without the underground area?
[quote=sage]the stairs eat the splash from rockets
this is usually fixed by making the collision mesh just a ramp like it was done in badlands last stairs
the whole underground area is huge and a little pointless but interesting[/quote]
Thanks for pointing that out. The stairs are an easy fix but the underground area...
I have considered removing the underground area and the tunnel under the point entirely but I would like some input/suggestions (even if the input is reassuring that removing the underground area would be for the best) for it. Would the map become too simple without the underground area?
the times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way
the times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way
sagethe times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?
[quote=sage]the times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way[/quote]
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?
FatherBrandonsagethe times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?
nono, just the walls of the capture point while you are capping
the house ruins makes capping very claustrophobic since you barely see whats coming
just try standing on that CP for 10 seconds and trying to grasp whats going on in your surroundings
http://i.imgur.com/8nO4uvI.jpg
i would like to see most of the house walls removed or maybe change the house theme around the capture point with something else ?
[quote=FatherBrandon][quote=sage]the times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way[/quote]
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?[/quote]
nono, just the walls of the capture point while you are capping
the house ruins makes capping very claustrophobic since you barely see whats coming
just try standing on that CP for 10 seconds and trying to grasp whats going on in your surroundings
http://i.imgur.com/8nO4uvI.jpg
i would like to see most of the house walls removed or maybe change the house theme around the capture point with something else ?
sageFatherBrandonsagethe times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?
nono, just the walls of the capture point while you are capping
the house ruins makes capping very claustrophobic since you barely see whats coming
just try standing on that CP for 10 seconds and trying to grasp whats going on in your surroundings
http://i.imgur.com/8nO4uvI.jpg
i would like to see most of the house walls removed or maybe change the house theme around the capture point with something else ?
I'll see what I can do. Thanks for elaborating on it!
[quote=sage][quote=FatherBrandon][quote=sage]the times i saw people in the underground area it was just the part thats right next to the capture point
maybe adding more entrances to the underground area would fix it? idk it just seems like a wierd area that only in pubs would be useful, for engineers with sentry nests
also the way being in the capture point blocks your view so much is a bit of a hassle, like an even tinier coldfront mid with more walls blocking the way[/quote]
In regard to the capture point, can you please elaborate? Do you mean the way into the underground area from the point blocks your view? Or is this an issue separate from the underground and you'd like to see the cover around the capture point opened up a bit?[/quote]
nono, just the walls of the capture point while you are capping
the house ruins makes capping very claustrophobic since you barely see whats coming
just try standing on that CP for 10 seconds and trying to grasp whats going on in your surroundings
http://i.imgur.com/8nO4uvI.jpg
i would like to see most of the house walls removed or maybe change the house theme around the capture point with something else ?[/quote]
I'll see what I can do. Thanks for elaborating on it!
New experimental release: koth_avalanche_pro4
Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3ia9383m5jwcgd/koth_avalanche_pro4.bsp.bz2?dl=0
-blocked off all access to underground areas
-lowered more walls next to the point
-removed unused areas of the map completely (underground, tunnels)
-improved clipping
Image album of changes including some descriptions:
http://imgur.com/a/yQUxq
New experimental release: koth_avalanche_pro4
Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3ia9383m5jwcgd/koth_avalanche_pro4.bsp.bz2?dl=0
-blocked off all access to underground areas
-lowered more walls next to the point
-removed unused areas of the map completely (underground, tunnels)
-improved clipping
Image album of changes including some descriptions:
http://imgur.com/a/yQUxq
I don't know if I'm the only one, but I am getting pretty substantial fps drops, but besides that, there is a lot of clipping that would just be irritating and is seemingly unnecessary (such as this handle that you can bump your head on http://imgur.com/yh4DglF) and TONS of corners to get stuck in the should have slanted clip brushes on them (http://imgur.com/FDgpqnx). I would've made an album of all of the issues, but there are a lot and its a bit time consuming. Other than that, I really enjoy the aesthetic and like what you're doing with the pro version.
EDIT: Looking at the clipping more, I noticed a bunch of places high up that should be clipped but aren't, and this results in a huge number of hiding spaces and awful positions people shouldn't be in. (You can walk across this like entire rock http://imgur.com/fXREbZW)
I don't know if I'm the only one, but I am getting pretty substantial fps drops, but besides that, there is a lot of clipping that would just be irritating and is seemingly unnecessary (such as this handle that you can bump your head on http://imgur.com/yh4DglF) and TONS of corners to get stuck in the should have slanted clip brushes on them (http://imgur.com/FDgpqnx). I would've made an album of all of the issues, but there are a lot and its a bit time consuming. Other than that, I really enjoy the aesthetic and like what you're doing with the pro version.
EDIT: Looking at the clipping more, I noticed a bunch of places high up that should be clipped but aren't, and this results in a huge number of hiding spaces and awful positions people shouldn't be in. (You can walk across this like entire rock http://imgur.com/fXREbZW)
TmbrI don't know if I'm the only one, but I am getting pretty substantial fps drops, but besides that, there is a lot of clipping that would just be irritating and is seemingly unnecessary (such as this handle that you can bump your head on http://imgur.com/yh4DglF) and TONS of corners to get stuck in the should have slanted clip brushes on them (http://imgur.com/FDgpqnx). I would've made an album of all of the issues, but there are a lot and its a bit time consuming. Other than that, I really enjoy the aesthetic and like what you're doing with the pro version.
EDIT: Looking at the clipping more, I noticed a bunch of places high up that should be clipped but aren't, and this results in a huge number of hiding spaces and awful positions people shouldn't be in. (You can walk across this like entire rock http://imgur.com/fXREbZW)
Thank you for pointing these out. Time to go on a fixing spree, first for the pro version.
[quote=Tmbr]I don't know if I'm the only one, but I am getting pretty substantial fps drops, but besides that, there is a lot of clipping that would just be irritating and is seemingly unnecessary (such as this handle that you can bump your head on http://imgur.com/yh4DglF) and TONS of corners to get stuck in the should have slanted clip brushes on them (http://imgur.com/FDgpqnx). I would've made an album of all of the issues, but there are a lot and its a bit time consuming. Other than that, I really enjoy the aesthetic and like what you're doing with the pro version.
EDIT: Looking at the clipping more, I noticed a bunch of places high up that should be clipped but aren't, and this results in a huge number of hiding spaces and awful positions people shouldn't be in. (You can walk across this like entire rock http://imgur.com/fXREbZW)[/quote]
Thank you for pointing these out. Time to go on a fixing spree, first for the pro version.
looks great, cant wait to try it out x)
looks great, cant wait to try it out x)