ThoughtcrimeAsecKinda feel like people are overreacting a little. Its matchmaking, it wasn't good before the update and it still isn't. I am wondering how many people complaining here actually played MM regularly.
Judging by the tftv forums, nobody here cares about mm at the moment, because it's that unpopular.
Valve probably knows that and is just experimenting with it now I guess, like testing out how ctf currently works (/doesn't work) in 6s and trying to improve it, doing the same with badwater/payload.
Of course those are some super questionable decisions (why remove badlands instead of swiftwater??), but does it really matter to the comp community right now?
It doesn't affect the leagues or anything, so who cares. Valve wanna find out that CTF sucks on their own, they don't want to rely on a tiny slice of their playerbase? From a dev standpoint, I think that kinda makes sense.
The only thing that really bothers me, is that the entire process of experimenting with the game to find out what does and doesn't work is just so slow.
But it's Valve, so that should have been expected...
It's just a shame to see all the potential that mm could have had just go to waste. Where is the whitelist? Where is the option to choose maps?
Removing maps that are staples of competitive and which have proven themselves to be fairly balanced and fun to play on is going backwards. Not only that but to throw in another payload map and a ctf map when neither of those have been known to work for 6s - let alone even be fun to play in that format - is just salt in the wound.
That's what betas are for. I have a feeling that mm will never actually be out of "beta". Valve will just keep experimenting while the competitive community slowly shrinks.
That is why people are upset.
1 There should never be a whitelist on mm, valve should balance the banned weapons.
2 map picking would be good but i doubt there is the player base for it.
3 while there were very few changes from the beta to the main release (if any). You would want valve to continually iterate on mm, so the idea that changes would stop after release is not a good one. The CS mm was far worse than what it is now.
Im not saying that valve are perfect, im just defending some of their decisions which given the amount of hate towards valve atm i will prob get down fragged.
[quote=Thoughtcrime][quote=Asec]Kinda feel like people are overreacting a little. Its matchmaking, it wasn't good before the update and it still isn't. I am wondering how many people complaining here actually played MM regularly.
Judging by the tftv forums, nobody here cares about mm at the moment, because it's that unpopular.
Valve probably knows that and is just experimenting with it now I guess, like testing out how ctf currently works (/doesn't work) in 6s and trying to improve it, doing the same with badwater/payload.
Of course those are some super questionable decisions (why remove badlands instead of swiftwater??), but does it really matter to the comp community right now?
It doesn't affect the leagues or anything, so who cares. Valve wanna find out that CTF sucks on their own, they don't want to rely on a tiny slice of their playerbase? From a dev standpoint, I think that kinda makes sense.
The only thing that really bothers me, is that the entire process of experimenting with the game to find out what does and doesn't work is just so slow.
But it's Valve, so that should have been expected...[/quote]
It's just a shame to see all the potential that mm could have had just go to waste. Where is the whitelist? Where is the option to choose maps?
Removing maps that are staples of competitive and which have proven themselves to be fairly balanced and fun to play on is going backwards. Not only that but to throw in another payload map and a ctf map when neither of those have been known to work for 6s - let alone even be fun to play in that format - is just salt in the wound.
That's what betas are for. I have a feeling that mm will never actually be out of "beta". Valve will just keep experimenting while the competitive community slowly shrinks.
That is why people are upset.[/quote]
1 There should never be a whitelist on mm, valve should balance the banned weapons.
2 map picking would be good but i doubt there is the player base for it.
3 while there were very few changes from the beta to the main release (if any). You would want valve to continually iterate on mm, so the idea that changes would stop after release is not a good one. The CS mm was far worse than what it is now.
Im not saying that valve are perfect, im just defending some of their decisions which given the amount of hate towards valve atm i will prob get down fragged.
A few months ago I got in touch (or perhaps tried to get in touch) with a TF2 MM beta moderator to provide feedback (back when zoom_sensitivity was locked) and said he'll try to forward it. Took months to fix. I also asked him if I could provide consistent, constructive feedback somewhere that wouldn't be drowned in the 1000 threads on the steam group - which perhaps I shouldn't expect. But when the competitive community is quite literally offering free advice, suggestions and explanations behind the decision making for the dev team, which they ignore on step 1 and we get this, I cant help but wonder What is going on?
I'd love to see balance and ideas, but the dev team has to realize you cannot throw random ideas in updates and hope the gamble works. Or wherever they get these ideas from.
A few months ago I got in touch (or perhaps tried to get in touch) with a TF2 MM beta moderator to provide feedback (back when zoom_sensitivity was locked) and said he'll try to forward it. Took months to fix. I also asked him if I could provide consistent, constructive feedback somewhere that wouldn't be drowned in the 1000 threads on the steam group - which perhaps I shouldn't expect. But when the competitive community is quite literally offering free advice, suggestions and explanations behind the decision making for the dev team, which they ignore on step 1 and we get this, I cant help but wonder [b]What is going on?[/b]
I'd love to see balance and ideas, but the dev team has to realize you cannot throw random ideas in updates and hope the gamble works. Or wherever they get these ideas from.
Tom3 while there were very few changes from the beta to the main release (if any). You would want valve to continually iterate on mm, so the idea that changes would stop after release is not a good one. The CS mm was far worse than what it is now.
Im not saying that valve are perfect, im just defending some of their decisions which given the amount of hate towards valve atm i will prob get down fragged.
It's really not hard to see they're doing beta-level changes to mm rather than release-level adjustments. That's what bugs me. Really basic unspecific feedback after every match, check. Questionable map changes on the grounds of testing the waters, check. No indication of any large scale rebalancing, check. They had two years to test these things. Why are they only starting now? Why do they refuse to reopen the beta branch? I don't expect mm to be perfect and only need slight tweaks, but it's abhorrently obvious they dragged their feet creating matchmaking, rushed the release because people were mad, and now they're damage controlling it by doing changes that should only impact a beta, but those experiments are turning real players away from enjoying matchmaking. The reason you make beta branches is so people can still enjoy the released product as it is. Now everyone has to deal with valve as they attempt to comprehend what the definition of balanced is.
[quote=Tom]3 while there were very few changes from the beta to the main release (if any). You would want valve to continually iterate on mm, so the idea that changes would stop after release is not a good one. The CS mm was far worse than what it is now.
Im not saying that valve are perfect, im just defending some of their decisions which given the amount of hate towards valve atm i will prob get down fragged.[/quote]
It's really not hard to see they're doing beta-level changes to mm rather than release-level adjustments. That's what bugs me. Really basic unspecific feedback after every match, check. Questionable map changes on the grounds of testing the waters, check. No indication of any large scale rebalancing, check. They had two years to test these things. Why are they only starting now? Why do they refuse to reopen the beta branch? I don't expect mm to be perfect and only need slight tweaks, but it's abhorrently obvious they dragged their feet creating matchmaking, rushed the release because people were mad, and now they're damage controlling it by doing changes that should only impact a beta, but those experiments are turning real players away from enjoying matchmaking. The reason you make beta branches is so people can still enjoy the released product as it is. Now everyone has to deal with valve as they attempt to comprehend what the definition of balanced is.
Ok my opinion here is that it literally could have been so much worse
Ok my opinion here is that it literally could have been so much worse
I wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve so I could actually help to fix this steaming pile of shit
I wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve so I could actually help to fix this steaming pile of shit
trippaI wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...
looks like thats not required tbh
[quote=trippa]I wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...[/quote] looks like thats not required tbh
DuMmTmtrippaI wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...
looks like thats not required tbh
Why am I laughing at that
I should be crying, holy shit this is a disaster
[quote=DuMmTm][quote=trippa]I wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...[/quote] looks like thats not required tbh[/quote]
Why am I laughing at that
I should be crying, holy shit this is a disaster
DatDrummerGuyDuMmTmtrippaI wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...
looks like thats not required tbh
Why am I laughing at that
I should be crying
https://mobile.twitter.com/DuMmTm/status/789584285573451776
[quote=DatDrummerGuy][quote=DuMmTm][quote=trippa]I wish I had a degree and the qualifications to get a job at valve...[/quote] looks like thats not required tbh[/quote]
Why am I laughing at that
I should be crying[/quote]
https://mobile.twitter.com/DuMmTm/status/789584285573451776
when you quote your own post [img]https://lareviewofbooks.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Face_with_Tears_of_Joy.jpg[/img]
[img]https://puu.sh/rOQiz/400b2dea17.png[/img]
mm is like playing on an old valve server at 3 am
mm is like playing on an old valve server at 3 am
mfw i get home to realize that badlands gone smh
mfw i get home to realize that badlands gone smh
valve please hire wiethoofd/omni to fix your hud and also fix your game while they're at it
valve please hire wiethoofd/omni to fix your hud and also fix your game while they're at it
The worst part is adding in Turbine and Badwater would have been fine, and pretty reasonable if Valve wanted to test new maps, as long as they replaced bad maps and not good ones. Having a few bad/experimental maps is fine, having Badwater, Turbine, Foundry, Gorge, Swiftwater, AND Vanguard is way too many. (That's 6/12 maps currently playable)
idk though, if they're going to be changing the map list often (once a month maybe?) This is fine, if we have to wait another six months to play different maps then this is a huge mistake.
The worst part is adding in Turbine and Badwater would have been fine, and pretty reasonable if Valve wanted to test new maps, as long as they replaced bad maps and not good ones. Having a few bad/experimental maps is fine, having Badwater, Turbine, Foundry, Gorge, Swiftwater, AND Vanguard is way too many. (That's 6/12 maps currently playable)
idk though, if they're going to be changing the map list often (once a month maybe?) This is fine, if we have to wait another six months to play different maps then this is a huge mistake.
If what people are hypothesizing about them switching out maps every month/every few months is true, I don't think Valve realizes they don't have time for that. If this system (and matchmaking in general) was implemented years ago, it would have made sense to drag out what is basically a beta this long.
However, it's nine years after the release of the game and people are starting to lose hope in it. Too little too late.
If what people are hypothesizing about them switching out maps every month/every few months is true, I don't think Valve realizes they don't have time for that. If this system (and matchmaking in general) was implemented years ago, it would have made sense to drag out what is basically a beta this long.
However, it's nine years after the release of the game and people are starting to lose hope in it. Too little too late.
Is payload popular in Overwatch? Maybe they're trying to copy that, thinking TF2 can't be sucessful in its current form.
Is payload popular in Overwatch? Maybe they're trying to copy that, thinking TF2 can't be sucessful in its current form.
this never would have happened if you voted heavy
edit: calmer now
this never would have happened if you voted heavy
edit: calmer now
tf2 community cucked again
tf2 community cucked again
and the game wont even boot up on my mac. rip
and the game wont even boot up on my mac. rip
Avvycan we get cp_yukon and fastlane back while we're at it
dude I would love valve MM yukon and fastlane. Hell even freight and fucking junction might not be that bad. The only worse map they could have picked would have been 2fort.
[quote=Avvy]can we get cp_yukon and fastlane back while we're at it[/quote]
dude I would love valve MM yukon and fastlane. Hell even freight and fucking junction might not be that bad. The only worse map they could have picked would have been 2fort.
i bet they will add 2fort, you can't put it past them now
i bet they will add 2fort, you can't put it past them now
ReeroMore proof that valve is out of touch with what their community wants...
BREAKING NEWS
[quote=Reero]More proof that valve is out of touch with what their community wants...[/quote]
BREAKING NEWS
im still waiting for them to add pass_brickyard
im still waiting for them to add pass_brickyard
it doesnt break huds, does it?
it doesnt break huds, does it?
Nope, but they'll need to get updated to add some new elements like the "load" and "save" in Casual.
Nope, but they'll need to get updated to add some new elements like the "load" and "save" in Casual.
DatDrummerGuyNope, but they'll need to get updated to add some new elements like the "load" and "save" in Casual.
thank you
[quote=DatDrummerGuy]Nope, but they'll need to get updated to add some new elements like the "load" and "save" in Casual.[/quote]
thank you
Re4lityI feel like sigafoo had an effect on this , with his recent visit to valve headquarters.
TsarbucksIf he's responsible, the 6s community will hate him even more than they already do.
sendwhy the fuck are they taking advice from an engineer main
I understand we have somewhat of a mutual hostility with sigafoo but there's nothing to suggest sigafoo's casual tour of Valve HQ as a fan directly led to these dumb MM changes. Valve is known for doing shit like this all the time unprovoked.
sigafoo's vision of the game differs from ours but it also differs from Valve's ergodic crypto-vision of the game.
[quote=Re4lity]I feel like sigafoo had an effect on this , with his recent visit to valve headquarters.[/quote]
[quote=Tsarbucks]If he's responsible, the 6s community will hate him even more than they already do.[/quote]
[quote=send]why the fuck are they taking advice from an engineer main[/quote]
I understand we have somewhat of a mutual hostility with sigafoo but there's nothing to suggest sigafoo's casual tour of Valve HQ as a fan directly led to these dumb MM changes. Valve is known for doing shit like this all the time unprovoked.
sigafoo's vision of the game differs from ours but it also differs from Valve's ergodic crypto-vision of the game.
To be fair Granary is shit
To be fair Granary is shit
panda106i bet they will add 2fort, you can't put it past them now
this just in: process, metalworks removed, replaced with 2fort and ctf_well
[quote=panda106]i bet they will add 2fort, you can't put it past them now[/quote]
this just in: process, metalworks removed, replaced with 2fort and ctf_well
Hey! If you're on Mac OS X/macOS and you're crashing, please see [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/58qmcm/hey_mac_os_xmacos_users_that_are_crashing_see/[/url].