qf is better than it was before at pushing through chokes because of sticky nerf and heavy nerf, but it's still pretty bad at it (imo it isn't that much more difficult to hit stickies on people walking through chokes post demo nerf) and having a heavy/sniper makes pushing even harder because those classes are fucking awful at pushing

also

both of these are still incredibly overpowered

jarate and milk are overpowered because they are INCREDIBLY strong utility that is FREE. you spawn with it, it charges automatically, and every time you hit someone with it they cannot win a 1v1 for 8 seconds. even if you only hit 1 person with it it's still bullshit, especially considering how mediocre pistol/smg are

they either need to charge like banners or be shit like wrap assassin

ALSO speaking of shit decisions made by people who don't know what unlocks do

the solemn vow was quickbanned LAST SEASON after not making the initial blacklist once people realized that it works constantly, not just when it's out - it provides a LOT of utility that is 100% free, that lessens the need for good comms on damage and uber tracking, and isn't the ubersaw.

Fast forward to this season, nothing changed, it's still stupid, it's still really good, it still takes no skill, and it still takes no risk.

as a spectator, as a medic player, and as a player of any class, i think we can all agree that the ubersaw is the single most-exciting and best-designed unlock in this game and anything that outclasses it should be banned.

also, you can see enemy ubercharge.

glad to see that not only valve is clearly willing to buff scouts into the fucking exosphere, but also the Super Sekrit Circle Of Top Tf2 Players decided to join the fray too!!!!

I love playing soldier :)))

I argued strongly against unbanning the Solemn vow, but unfortunately I was in the minority of opinions.

the solemn vow isn't a bad unlock because making tracking easier for new meds is very appealing. also gives meds a more active role in calling. I still think ubersaw would be run a lot.

Edit: I'm an idiot

this is precisely why its a bad unlock

medic is already 95% autopilot and the class that people play when they're awful and have no hope of climbing divs on any other class, things that take skill and separate good medics from bad medics are NOT bad, and you should be punished if you can't count fucking uber (hint: 40 sec)

name a medic that isn't mang who is good and doesn't talk

then you're either a fucking idiot or you think everyone else is a fucking idiot

wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong

no, counting uber isn't fun

but you know what is fun

ubersawing people

and you know what you can't do if the solemn vow exists because the utility of seeing enemy health is fucking amazing

run ubersaw

then run ubersaw

people who value fun over winning don't play competitive, and they certainly don't play medic, aka the least entertaining class in tf2

i think the solemn vow vs ubersaw argument is very similar to the qf vs medigun argument - one is high risk high reward, the other is either low risk high reward or no risk medium reward, and the solemn vow / qf remove aspects of competitive play (comms and positioning) that take skill and are important

so please please ban them

just played two scrims with quickfix it is actually super aids, i fee llike im in a dm server

How are the Solemn vow or ubersaw risky at all

First iteration of global whitelist:
Admin Illuminate: "Guys we're going to unban the Jarate and Rescue Ranger (+others that aren't retarded)"
Comp TF2 Players: "Wow that's honestly so dumb here are paragraphs on why those unlocks are fucking disgusting"
Admin Illuminate: "Just give 'em a chance guys!!!!!"

Next iteration of global whitelist after several months:
Admin Illuminate: "o shit yeah those items were gimmicky and awful and not fun to play against at all we'll ban them"
Comp TF2 Players: "That's what we were saying all along we don't need testing to figure out those weapons are retarded but thank you for banning them <3"
Admin Illuminate: "Oh btw we're also going to unban the Quickfix and Sodapopper"
Comp TF2 Players: "Wow that's honestly so dumb here are paragraphs on why those unlocks are fucking disgusting"
Admin Illuminate: "Just give 'em a chance guys!!!!!"

Fucking hello? Its like we're dealing with Valve who think the Danger Shield is in a perfect state and Scout needs to be buffed except you guys actually play the fucking game and know better. FUCKING LOLHIGHLANDER PLAYERS FIGURED OUT THE SODAPOPPER IS AIDS WHY ARE WE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES.

Why are we even unbanning shit after matchmaking was a royal fucking failure. Valve have barely touched it in months and the changes they have made are to how abandons are dealt with. They've clearly given up on matchmaking so why the fuck are we still pandering to them.

how to get impatient and dig your own grave as a direct result (slin edition)

this whole meeting was kinda disappointing. you managed to ban the jarate and RR which was great.
but than you just let b4nny control the discussion, which eventually escalated to "oh this weapon is just a downgrade to stock" or "this weapon won't be run over this weapon"

i appreciate the players that did give their insight about these unlocks but most players seemed to be unsure or were "sitting on the fence" when it came to the unlocks such as the soda popper, solem vow and quickfix.

not really a big deal since these weapons are probably going to get banned soon

Solemn Vow has the same issue pre nerf booties did. If you didn't use them and the enemy demo did you were just hurting your team. Same thing is most likely going to happen with the Solemn Vow

ubersaw requires you to be in melee range, which means you take max rampup from rockets, scattergun, pistols, stickies, and can be meleed

you also can't reaction dodge projectiles (a technique where you see a projectile and walk away from where its going)

you also can't use cover like walls, props, or high ground to minimize your hitbox and buy time to get more distance because you aren't trying to get distance because you're ubersawing people

also, you are losing uber every second you aren't healing someone.

meanwhile the solemn vow does not require you to be in melee range or have your melee out, it's line of sight. therefore, you can do your normal easy job of staying as far away from enemies as possible to minimize rampup, dodging, and healing people

lol imagine 2 flying Scouts pushing together

the quickfix is actually a joke, please for the love of god get rid of this weapon.

Seems like one of the big issues people have with this whitelist stuff is how decisions are being made.

People are arguing over a topic that is subjective, as if some sort of middle ground can be reached based solely on discussion. Don't get me wrong, discussion is definitely healthy, but it's only part of the solution; it's great for theorising the effects that each unlock will bring to the game and subsequently helping people form their own opinions based off of that, but not every theory becomes reality when it comes to actual gameplay. These theories need to be tested.

In ETF2L, there's been a "preseason cup" before every season which has allowed teams to test out new maps and then vote on those maps. Until the "secret meeting" global whitelist was introduced, unlocks were included in this testing & voting phase also. Why not introduce this kind of thing globally? If not a cup, perhaps a whitelist that runs during the entire offseason that can be used for testing in scrims/mixes/pugs?

The only way you're going to reach a satisfactory middle-ground is by holding a vote on it, which, in my opinion, should not exclude everyone that doesn't fit into the arbitrary skill measurement of Invite/Prem (sorry elitists, but Open/Mid/IM/High players are still players, and not all of them are "retards"). Put out a poll that's advertised on all the league & other comp-related sites so that there's little excuse for people to complain about being left out.

you can apply that to a lot weapons, like the basher a lot of times you're expected to run it for the utility of building.

ugc did a plat-only poll and an everyone who played last season poll

the problem with 6s is that i feel like most invite players don't actually know what any of the unlocks do (ex: banny playing 4s of highlander scout without ever equipping atomizer and using mad milk less than a handful of times, people not realizing that jarate is overpowered, nobody realizing the backup is overpowered, etc)

maybe people disagree with you

why not just remove the the rocket jumping on the quickfix?

being able to jump away removes the positional skill of medic, and acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card. If that was gone, it would be just a faster healing, less overheal medigun vulnerable to burst damage

at this point just make 6s scout limit 5 + one qf med since every other class doesnt have a chance and might as well be eating shit off the floor during team fights

itll be the fastest paced tf2 we've ever had

If you guys unban soda popper I'm going to tell ibby and then he can play and win whatever division he plays in

ibby playing scout in esea with the soda popper sounds terrifying

it's fun