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Might be a dumb question but...
1
#1
0 Frags +

Hi, so my question is:
If I'm in a 1v2 situation against a medic and a damage class, who should I go for, the medic or the damage class?
My first instinct was always to go for the medic, because he doesn't get healed and is the most important target.
But watching pro matches I saw a couple situations where players in that scenario went for the damage class first.
So that made me wonder: Am I doing it wrong, should I try to kill the other guy first and not focus on the medic?

I guess it might depend on what class the other guy is?
If it's a scout, go for the medic, because you won't win against a healed scout and can consider yourself lucky if you even get the med before the scout kills you?
If it's a demo, go for the demo, because he'll have a much harder time killing you when you get close to him instead of the medic and you can kill him and then the medic?
What if it's a soldier?

Hi, so my question is:
If I'm in a 1v2 situation against a medic and a damage class, who should I go for, the medic or the damage class?
My first instinct was always to go for the medic, because he doesn't get healed and is the most important target.
But watching pro matches I saw a couple situations where players in that scenario went for the damage class first.
So that made me wonder: Am I doing it wrong, should I try to kill the other guy first and not focus on the medic?

I guess it might depend on what class the other guy is?
If it's a scout, go for the medic, because you won't win against a healed scout and can consider yourself lucky if you even get the med before the scout kills you?
If it's a demo, go for the demo, because he'll have a much harder time killing you when you get close to him instead of the medic and you can kill him and then the medic?
What if it's a soldier?
2
#2
4 Frags +

Press s and dont take the 2v1

If ur meds dead go for med
If ur meds not dead and u have no way to stay alive go for med anyways fuck it unless hes healin a demo and that demoss alone for some reason the go fuck the demo up

Press s and dont take the 2v1

If ur meds dead go for med
If ur meds not dead and u have no way to stay alive go for med anyways fuck it unless hes healin a demo and that demoss alone for some reason the go fuck the demo up
3
#3
-2 Frags +

to begin with you should never really take 2v1s
i feel like in most scenarios it would be better to just try to go for the medic since you're gonna die for sure because the other guy is gonna have a buff and its gonna be really hard to like try to out-dm a 300 hp soldier or a 185 hp scout with <200 health, if you just know you're gonna die just try to get the med pick if you can to at least make ubers even/have ad (assuming that your med died)

to begin with you should never really take 2v1s
i feel like in most scenarios it would be better to just try to go for the medic since you're gonna die for sure because the other guy is gonna have a buff and its gonna be really hard to like try to out-dm a 300 hp soldier or a 185 hp scout with <200 health, if you just know you're gonna die just try to get the med pick if you can to at least make ubers even/have ad (assuming that your med died)
4
#4
1 Frags +

In this situation people go for the damage class I am guessing because they think they can defeat him, it's a mixture of arrogance/confidence and/or quick tactical thinking.

E.g. The class defending the Medic may be reloading and have less ammo.
- It is easier for a player defending the Medic to deal with you if you're not shooting him and he knows it because you then only have to worry about hitting shots or blocking the aggressor, therefore targetting him gives you more chance of achieving the kill (In some scenarios, dependent on how early he sees you plus map geometrics).
- Easier for the Medic as well, if you start targeting him he doesn't have to worry about healing his target and can focus on dodging or defending himself, so for the same reasons above it may be easier to target his defender first.

Of course I don't need to tell you the advantage of the fragging the DM class first as it makes the Medic kill almost guaranteed if you do it quickly enough without taking a lot of damage.

To answer your question though it's most confidence in your ability or because of one of the reasons mentioned above. A smart player wouldn't go for this situation unless they felt confident and/or their life was worthless as it was the end of a fight and they had nothing to lose.

In this situation people go for the damage class I am guessing because they think they can defeat him, it's a mixture of arrogance/confidence and/or quick tactical thinking.

E.g. The class defending the Medic may be reloading and have less ammo.
- It is easier for a player defending the Medic to deal with you if you're not shooting him and he knows it because you then only have to worry about hitting shots or blocking the aggressor, therefore targetting him gives you more chance of achieving the kill (In some scenarios, dependent on how early he sees you plus map geometrics).
- Easier for the Medic as well, if you start targeting him he doesn't have to worry about healing his target and can focus on dodging or defending himself, so for the same reasons above it may be easier to target his defender first.

Of course I don't need to tell you the advantage of the fragging the DM class first as it makes the Medic kill almost guaranteed if you do it quickly enough without taking a lot of damage.

To answer your question though it's most confidence in your ability or because of one of the reasons mentioned above. A smart player wouldn't go for this situation unless they felt confident and/or their life was worthless as it was the end of a fight and they had nothing to lose.
5
#5
12 Frags +

I strongly disagree with the notion that you should never take 1v2s. TF2 is a game where the value of your life fluctuates a lot and IMO if you're playing to minimize your death count, you're not doing it optimally. There's not much of a difference between being 2 down or 3 down, for example. Either way, you're gonna lose a point at least, and so long as you don't stagger your deaths, you can afford to go down one more. I'll typically look for a quick 1v2 in that situation if I'm in a position to because there's really no downside to dying, but if you get really lucky, you can swing things back to even.

Similarly, if you're 3 up and you're in a position to 1v2 a med and a combat class or a demo and another class, you should probably do it if your team can't catch up before they leave. Even if you die, you're still 2 up, which is still pushable, and if you win, you can get 2 points instead of just one. Again, there's potential reward for no risk. 1v2s and hopeless fights are sometimes good to take.

As for why they go for the combat class first, imagine a situation where you're fighting a scout and a medic as a scout. There's really not much of a difference between a 185/tanked scout and a 125 scout if you fight at point blank range. You're at a disadvantage, but not a huge one. You may as well go for the scout first and clean up the med after, because it's still 2 shots to kill them, and they're probably easier to hit than the med because of position and needing to think about aiming. In the same vein, if you're fighting a pocket and a med, you should be able to fairly reliably win that fight if the pocket's on gunboats and the terrain isn't terrible. It's easier than diving for the med and exposing yourself to easy shots from the pocket.

I imagine it's different for soldiers, but I'm a terrible soldier so I don't really know. I'd expect them to mostly go for the med before combat classes, though.

I strongly disagree with the notion that you should never take 1v2s. TF2 is a game where the value of your life fluctuates a lot and IMO if you're playing to minimize your death count, you're not doing it optimally. There's not much of a difference between being 2 down or 3 down, for example. Either way, you're gonna lose a point at least, and so long as you don't stagger your deaths, you can afford to go down one more. I'll typically look for a quick 1v2 in that situation if I'm in a position to because there's really no downside to dying, but if you get really lucky, you can swing things back to even.

Similarly, if you're 3 up and you're in a position to 1v2 a med and a combat class or a demo and another class, you should probably do it if your team can't catch up before they leave. Even if you die, you're still 2 up, which is still pushable, and if you win, you can get 2 points instead of just one. Again, there's potential reward for no risk. 1v2s and hopeless fights are sometimes good to take.

As for why they go for the combat class first, imagine a situation where you're fighting a scout and a medic as a scout. There's really not much of a difference between a 185/tanked scout and a 125 scout if you fight at point blank range. You're at a disadvantage, but not a huge one. You may as well go for the scout first and clean up the med after, because it's still 2 shots to kill them, and they're probably easier to hit than the med because of position and needing to think about aiming. In the same vein, if you're fighting a pocket and a med, you should be able to fairly reliably win that fight if the pocket's on gunboats and the terrain isn't terrible. It's easier than diving for the med and exposing yourself to easy shots from the pocket.

I imagine it's different for soldiers, but I'm a terrible soldier so I don't really know. I'd expect them to mostly go for the med before combat classes, though.
6
#6
3 Frags +

Go huge and kill them both with the same shot, then you don't need to worry about fighting one or the other.

Go huge and kill them both with the same shot, then you don't need to worry about fighting one or the other.
7
#7
1 Frags +

Alrighty, I'm just an open scrub, so don't take my unimportant opinion too seriously, but anyway...

I guess the most unsatisfying answer is that it always depends on the situation..

Let's imagine your team is winning the midfight with noone of your team dying and the enemy team going down 3 damage classes and you're chasing the medic and his heal target. In this situation you basically already won the fight with a few enemies surviving so I think nullifying their ubercharge with a demo or scout surviving and you going down will benefit your team much more than the other way around since your team can now push with a full uber advantafge on last.

On the other way around if the midfight or another battle starts and there are no clear advantages or disadvantages in numbers it's still pretty much dependent on the current uber situation. If you're on an uber disadvantage you may try to get their medic while saccing yourself to change that, if not you should probably get their damage class or retreat so your medic and team has time to build to nullify the disadvantage.

Despite all of this you should always know that taking a 1v2 is always kinda risky and if you're playing against equal players it's not always really worth it so for actual success you should - if possible - have people fighting with you or following up to maximize your team's success.

Another thing you should consider is that if you're killing the heal target you probably won't have that much problems killing the healer as well. On the other hand you shouldn't underestimate the power of an overhealed player against an nonoverhealed player...

What I actually think matters the most is playing with your team and listening to the calls while still keep the ubercharge for both team in your mind. Let's say your demo says "medic took a pipe" always go for the med, since he has only 50 hp left and there's a pretty big chance killing him, If your team says demo down, scout took 50, soldier took a lot or whatever, always go for the damage classes since these are weak and by fragging them you assure your teams benefit. Also you should really listen to your "team plan" aka what your main caller sais. Whatever the aim of your attack (or hold) is depends on the enemy medic having advantage/disadvantage or what you try to achieve. I guess it's kinda impossible to answer your question since comp tf2 isn't just dm but much more a team working together.

Once again, I'm a bad player who's stuck in open with basically no legit knowledge, so if you disagree with me (which is likely since people here do most likely know how to play) not just downfrag, please correct my mistakes so that not just OP will learn, I'm 'stupid' after all as well. Thanks!

Alrighty, I'm just an open scrub, so don't take my unimportant opinion too seriously, but anyway...

I guess the most unsatisfying answer is that it always depends on the situation..

Let's imagine your team is winning the midfight with noone of your team dying and the enemy team going down 3 damage classes and you're chasing the medic and his heal target. In this situation you basically already won the fight with a few enemies surviving so I think nullifying their ubercharge with a demo or scout surviving and you going down will benefit your team much more than the other way around since your team can now push with a full uber advantafge on last.

On the other way around if the midfight or another battle starts and there are no clear advantages or disadvantages in numbers it's still pretty much dependent on the current uber situation. If you're on an uber disadvantage you may try to get their medic while saccing yourself to change that, if not you should probably get their damage class or retreat so your medic and team has time to build to nullify the disadvantage.

Despite all of this you should always know that taking a 1v2 is always kinda risky and if you're playing against equal players it's not always really worth it so for actual success you should - if possible - have people fighting with you or following up to maximize your team's success.

Another thing you should consider is that if you're killing the heal target you probably won't have that much problems killing the healer as well. On the other hand you shouldn't underestimate the power of an overhealed player against an nonoverhealed player...

What I actually think matters the most is playing with your team and listening to the calls while still keep the ubercharge for both team in your mind. Let's say your demo says "medic took a pipe" always go for the med, since he has only 50 hp left and there's a pretty big chance killing him, If your team says demo down, scout took 50, soldier took a lot or whatever, always go for the damage classes since these are weak and by fragging them you assure your teams benefit. Also you should really listen to your "team plan" aka what your main caller sais. Whatever the aim of your attack (or hold) is depends on the enemy medic having advantage/disadvantage or what you try to achieve. I guess it's kinda impossible to answer your question since comp tf2 isn't just dm but much more a team working together.

Once again, I'm a bad player who's stuck in open with basically no legit knowledge, so if you disagree with me (which is likely since people here do most likely know how to play) not just downfrag, please correct my mistakes so that not just OP will learn, I'm 'stupid' after all as well. Thanks!
8
#8
12 Frags +

it entirely depends on the many specific situations. i'm just going to describe situations where they are actual 1v2's and not quite unseen flanks.

if you're defending your last point and you're forced to 1v2 in order to save your team the round, it is much harder to win if you shoot the medic first, no matter what the class composition is, for the most part. usually the only reason to ever go for the medic in these situations is if he's pretty much 1 clickable. this is probably a 1v2 that arises the most, as you normally don't take 1v2s for no reason.

if you're going for a 1v2 and your medic is dead, the main pick that matters is the other medic, so that's the safe option, because it doesn't really matter if you die to the other player, as your team can just repush with heals (although if it's on the other team's last, i'd probably just try to win the entire round by killing the fragging class then the medic). however, in most other 1v2 situations, including this one as well, it depends on whether or not you're confident that you can win the fight, as killing both players is more difficult than just killing the medic (assuming the combat class has a buff), and it also depends on what the class composition is. for example if you're a scout 1v2'ing a soldier/medic and you have a ton of props to jump around on, the easiest play would be to just jump around the props, trying to not get airshot, while chipping the medic. at the same time though, a good soldier will jump you with his buff if you have significant high ground, so you'll either be forced to deny the soldier or drop off and try to meatshot the medic (it's usually easier to just own the soldier though). if it's scout vs scout on almost any point on the map, i'd say going for the scout is usually the easiest unless the medic is lit. one of the harder fights to win when the other player has a heal advantage is probably soldier vs soldier possibly, and it's pretty easy to just go for the medic in that situation, since he can't do damage to you until you land unless you get airshot, so in most soldier vs soldier/medic situations, i'd probably just go for the medic.

there are so many different situations, depending on confidence, the point of the map, the class composition, your hp and the enemies' hp, and the environment of the map (props / high ground) to really give a definite answer. each situation is different from another.

it entirely depends on the many specific situations. i'm just going to describe situations where they are actual 1v2's and not quite unseen flanks.

if you're defending your last point and you're [i]forced[/i] to 1v2 in order to save your team the round, it is much harder to win if you shoot the medic first, no matter what the class composition is, for the most part. usually the only reason to ever go for the medic in these situations is if he's pretty much 1 clickable. this is probably a 1v2 that arises the most, as you normally don't take 1v2s for no reason.

if you're going for a 1v2 and your medic is dead, the main pick that matters is the other medic, so that's the safe option, because it doesn't really matter if you die to the other player, as your team can just repush with heals (although if it's on the other team's last, i'd probably just try to win the entire round by killing the fragging class then the medic). however, in most other 1v2 situations, including this one as well, it depends on whether or not you're confident that you can win the fight, as killing both players is more difficult than just killing the medic (assuming the combat class has a buff), and it also depends on what the class composition is. for example if you're a scout 1v2'ing a soldier/medic and you have a ton of props to jump around on, the easiest play would be to just jump around the props, trying to not get airshot, while chipping the medic. at the same time though, a good soldier will jump you with his buff if you have significant high ground, so you'll either be forced to deny the soldier or drop off and try to meatshot the medic (it's usually easier to just own the soldier though). if it's scout vs scout on almost any point on the map, i'd say going for the scout is usually the easiest unless the medic is lit. one of the harder fights to win when the other player has a heal advantage is probably soldier vs soldier possibly, and it's pretty easy to just go for the medic in that situation, since he can't do damage to you until you land unless you get airshot, so in most soldier vs soldier/medic situations, i'd probably just go for the medic.

there are so many different situations, depending on confidence, the point of the map, the class composition, your hp and the enemies' hp, and the environment of the map (props / high ground) to really give a definite answer. each situation is different from another.
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